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Retro Game of the Week, Week 4

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  • 17-01-2016 10:16am
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭


    And this week,
    It's gonna be DOOM!
    As nominated by Retr0
    doom-cover.jpg


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,781 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    I love these games.

    First played them on a PC back in the day. Cant remember which PC or what year.

    Replayed Doom 1,2 and Ultimate Doom on PS1 with a headset at a mates house.
    I had nightmares for months, think it was due to the headset. Ive tried to find a pic of the accessory but to no avail.

    John Romero is true legend of the industry.
    Living in Galway now i believe.
    Doom has been running on every type of device from Printers LCD to ATM's and Oscilliscopes. Youtube links to follow.

    Latest level released this week according to his twitter feed:

    John Romero:
    It's been 21 years since I made a DOOM level. Here's my version of E1M8 using DOOM1.WAD.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/2x2ee3r51986dkt/e1m8b.zip?dl=0


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,996 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    For me PC gaming was a bit of a joke before Doom. I was wrong in thinking that but most friends with PCs at the time only had a 286. So when I call over we would play some really ropey looking EGA games or scorched earth which didn't impress next to 16 bit console graphics. They also had a little game called Wolfensteins 3D which was great fun but wasn't mind blowing. It was either that or trying to get past the questions at the start of leisure suit Larry so we could type in dirty words.

    Then in the gaming magazines at the time I read about a hyper violent game called Doom on PC. It looked extraordinary. Not only that but the heavy metal album cover style visuals just spoke to my awkward teenage self. Couple that with the hyper violence and it was a game I just had to have... But I had no PC.

    A few months later I met a friend who is still a good friend today and he had a 486 turbo PC with Doom 1 and 2. I finally got to play the game and it was mind blowing. I had never seen anything like it before. Sure there were some old polygon flight sims and the arcades were starting to see 3D games like Daytona and Ridge Racer but nothing moved as fast as this at home and presented a world that felt so tangible. We would stop in some levels and just admire the light sourcing which was a big buzz word at the time.

    Of course the whole 3D aspect was a lie thanks to the amazing programming skills of John Carmack. The whole game was 2D but used clever perspective effects to give the illusion of 3D. It wasn't the first engine to do this and arguably the earlier ultima underworld had a more advanced engine with rooms over rooms and sloped surfaces. However Underworld ran like a dog even on the most high end machine, Doom dispensed of such extravagances to generate much bigger environments and run at a blistering pace even on a 386.

    Doom does not get enough credit for just how well designed it is. While old FPS games like Goldeneye or Soldier of Fortune seem like relics and are hard to go back to Doom still feels fresh and relevant to this day. I think this is due to how no other game has replicated the gameplay of Doom, it still remains a unique experience. In the race to make games look better, character models have increased in complexity meaning there are less of them on screen. Dooms simple sprites meant you could fill the world with as many as you liked with little performance impact. It also had emergent elements with certain enemies fighting each other when damaged. This feature became the focal point of many stages in Doom 2. Also Doom had some actually gods honest level design, something which separates it from the dull story tubes of today where developers are too afraid to let players get lost for a while. Pretenders to the crown such as Serious Sam and Painkiller are just arena shooters with no sense of level design. This is where John Romero deserves a lot of the credit although he wasn't the only designer on the project. Doom is a real lesson in excellent level design and many of the best maps are still burned into my brain. It's only really been bettered by its direct sequel Doom 2 which explored more of the unusual aspects of the game engine with enemy infighting, verticality and changing elevations. It also introduced the most satisfying fps weapon of all time, the double barrel shotgun.

    Mention must go out to the enemy and weapon load out of the game. Doom just had a great mix of enemy types that never got boring to fight. This was expanded again in Doom 2 with even more nasties like the annoying rev enacts and mancubi. Doom was the first game where I've ever been impressed by its weapons. They seemed outrageous at the time but slowly ended up a little tame until the modern day where they are back to being outrageous next to the plethora of boring real world guns that only different in stats. Every weapon was satisfying to use takes to meaty sound effects and each one had a use. Who can forget picking up the chainsaw for the first time and rampaging through enemies, the crack of the ever dependable shotgun, the deadly rocket launcher that ended up killing you more times than the enemies ( splash damage hurting the player seemed mind blowing at the time) and of course the room clearing BFG with an acronym that made schoolkids giggle when the found out what it stood for.

    Doom should also be celebrated for the other two big changes it brought to videogames, multiplayer and modding. It wasn't the first game to offer networked multiplayer or the first to be modded but it was the game to popularise them and have communities form around them. Doomed death match over serial of LAN meant many an office worker naughtily raking up hours of over time while playing a sneaky game of death match Doom in the 90s. Co-op mode was also exceptional and I still play it every so often with friends. Not bad for a feature added at the eleventh minute. Modding was also a huge part of the game and built in as standard. Sound and graphics files could be easily replaced or expanded and level 'WAD' files could be easily created by amateurs leading to a massive community of level designers that still make levels today. Even more impressive are the total conversions that turn Doom into a completely different game. Form the excellent aliens total conversion, terrible Sonic fan made games and even the recent Brutal Doom which ups the violence to ridiculous levels (unfortunately the author is a total dildo) levels are still being made today, even John Romero returned to make one just last week.

    So Doom for me is not only a classic but an a ageless one which is rare for such an early 3D game. It had a massive impact on the industry and turned PC gaming into a viable platform. It arguably kick started the golden age of PC game during the 90s that saw the PC receive some of its best games and the formation of genres such as the MMO, real time western RPG games and real time strategy. Also before the term first person shooter was coined, these games were referred to as Doom clones, Doom was so big it was synomynous with the genre.

    One last thing, let's not forget Edge magazine's 7/10 review of the game, another case of its reviews getting it outrageously wrong. It called it a fairly simple 3D maze adventure, missing the point that the simplicity and fast hectic gameplay is what made it special. Then the reviewer lamented why you couldn't talk to the monsters.... It's kind of understandable since ultima underworld was released before Doom but is still just plain idiotic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭Doge


    Haha, people will fresk out at this post but....

    I first played Doom after playing Duke Nukem 3D and the gameplay was far more boring and dull in comparison. Even the first Quake felt the same despite its fancy 3D models.

    So that definitely spoiled my appreciation of the game, now had I played it when it first came out I would have understood how groundbreaking it was at the time compared to what else was out FPS wise, Wolf 3D was probably the only decent FPS that came before it.

    But after been spoiled with the immense depth of Duke3D, the varying environments, the huge selection of awesome weapons, the ability to jump, crouch, swim, jetpack your way through levels, the interactivity, the Secret Areas and references, the Voice acting, hell i could on longer than Retr0's post....

    ...Doom just felt very limiting and repetitive afterwards, and the levels felt too long and boxy, without detail.

    It was hard to play it extensively when I had Duke installed along side of it.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,996 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I felt Duke and Doom were very different. Duke had very few enemies on screen and you had to be very careful unlike doom which was a much faster and purer games. Also after the awesome shareware levels Duke 3D kind of gets a bit crappier due to the poorer level design. When it comes to build engine games I always preferred Shadow Warrior and the amazing Blood.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    I loved Doom and it's sequel.
    I played Wolfenstein 3D back in the day, on a PC, and it was my first time, in 90, of using a IBM compatible.
    And Doom, well that just blew me away.
    I'd no idea games could be like this, and then there were the secrets, and the end of level summary letting you know how many you'd missed!
    I played it more thoroughly on the PS, an excellent conversion, a combination of the first two games together with a link cable based multiplayer, fantastic!
    The music in that version was suitably atmospheric too.
    But, being a console version, I never got into the wad scene at all, and missed that completely.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,996 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I wasn't a big fan of the PS1 conversion. Frame rate was a bit muck and some of the bigger levels the PS1 couldn't handle were cut down or replaced with much poorer ones. I suppose it was a hell of a lot better than the pish we got on saturn and 3DO. The soundtrack was great though.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    The SNES one was remarkable, given they got it running, albeit with the help of an extra processor.
    I must dig out my Doom 3 BFG edition, it has the whole series on there as an extra bonus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭Doge


    I was amazed at seeing the intro for Doom 64, and this was only a year or 2 ago when Dr. Bob played it on his channel. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭pasta-solo


    Recently I've been playing the mod Brutal Doom, which tries to modernise the original a bit as well as adding tonnes more gore! Its a great mod, not that Doom needs to be changed at all, the vanilla original still plays amazingly and feels fresh, but Brutal Doom is a great way to replay it if its been a while.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,781 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    Brutal Doom looks great. Super music and violence.
    How would anyone not want to play it after this trailer:

    http://youtu.be/oSzYliSASKc


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 3,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dr Bob


    I discovered Doom in college , played through the whole thing in co-op as well as solo .
    when I got my first PC I picked up Doom II, on getting a lend of a PSX from work the christmas prior to that I played through th e PS version..man I just love the damn game , to the point where I dont think of it as retro , I fire it up whenever I'm stressed.
    and as Doge mentioned I love the Doom 64 N64 'port' (it actually plays and looks quite differently to PC Doom , but is a great game in its own right)
    Duke was ok , it demoed roughly the same time (or close to it) as quake..but it never hit the same heights as doom .
    For the record, of the 3 other main build engine games , I always preferred Blood to Duke (Shadow Warrior has a special place in my heart as well, although Redneck Rampage was , and still is basically ****e;))
    John Romero and his wife Brenda live down in Galway now , (He actually won a doom tourney as part of a games fleash there last year) , and he made a new Doom WAD there a few days ago (it replaces E1 ep8)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    We were PC gamers in my house. Largely because my parents were convinced that if they bought a games machine I'd quit my tutoring job and join a violence gang. Or they couldn't afford it. One or the other. My dad ran his business from home though, so when my mom wasn't on it typing up a letter or project for him, me and my brother would steal what precious minutes of play time we could.

    We had a fair selection of games, mostly pirated and often a little before they reached these shores thanks to my brother's friend who would return from occasional trips abroad with a new batch for us to play. Amongst the new arrivals one time was a game called Wolfenstein 3d. The game was vast, played fast and had amazing graphics, even if the lie to that was told the closer you got to in game objects.

    Then one day the neighbours, who already had a Commodore 64 and a pool table and a dad that loved them, bought their son a PC. A few months later he bought Doom after reading a review of it in a magazine. It played like a dog on his 286 though; you could literally see it move frame by frame. We took the disks two doors down and, to his disappointment, it ran like a dream on our 386.

    Doom was a true classic in the making. A confluence of people at their peak who, if they hadn't invented first person shooters with Wolf 3d, launched its flagship title with Doom. The game was not only fast but smooth. The range of weapons was decent and each one felt different and satisfying to shoot. Ditto the monsters. The level design was a huge step up from Wolf 3d. The layouts actually mattered, with some levels requiring tiny bits of puzzle solving to get through.

    The action was fast and frenetic, something many modern shooters sadly lack. The only one I've played since that has instilled the same sense of awe is Half Life 2. Both games have withstood the test of being revisited, achieving full playthroughs when I did so. It's sort of hard to say anything new about Doom that hasn't been said already. It's a shame more modern FPSs don't take their lead from it. It has a play style that really hasn't been emulated successfully since. Make no mistake that the praise this game receives isn't merely a case of nostalgia or an acknowledgement of its technical accomplishments. It still plays well today and is easy to revisit and enjoy time and time again.


  • Moderators Posts: 5,554 ✭✭✭Azza


    I played the 3DO version of this....lol was like playing on a postage stamp.

    Don't think the shotguns in Doom have ever been bettered.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Maybe he'll check in here...
    We're pretty cool, right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭trout


    picture.php?albumid=634&pictureid=15373


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    As people have said, a tremendous game, undoubtedly a true classic that advanced gaming.

    If you haven't read it, definitely read Masters of Doom by David Kushner, brilliant book about ID and the 2 John's.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masters_of_Doom


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    So, what was the best port of Doom?
    And why was it so brilliant?
    Best Homebrew port, as in running on hardware that had no business running Doom in the first place.
    And, lastly, what was/is the worst version of Doom out there, both official port and homebrew entries considered!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    So, what was the best port of Doom?
    And why was it so brilliant?
    Best Homebrew port, as in running on hardware that had no business running Doom in the first place.
    And, lastly, what was/is the worst version of Doom out there, both official port and homebrew entries considered!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,996 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    The best port of Doom is no port, it's best on PC :P

    As for worst it's a tie between the Saturn and 3DO version. Both are awful and feature a headache inducing framerate with lots of cut down levels and enemies that are only animated from the front.

    Even the 32X version with it's farty music is much better and a bit of a technical marvel considering it was kicked out the door still born from John Carmack who apparently badgered Sega to work on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,781 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    Doom on billboard :
    http://youtu.be/PxIGuMif1Nk

    Doom on ATM :
    http://youtu.be/D0rStdHowAg

    Doom on Printer :
    http://youtu.be/NPWi5yJK3zo

    Doom on Oscilloscope :
    http://youtu.be/xZaKlLyikKg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,624 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Have any of you guys tried VRDoom?

    There's nothing quite like having a Lost Soul come screaming at you out of nowhere. Brown trouser time :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Quite interesting couple of vids, more so about id but Doom relevant segments below:



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    A bit off topic, but in anticipation of this thread being locked, can I ask, is such action necessary? I think updating this thread with a link to the new discussion would work, or stickying and unstickying the thread every week would work just as well without feeling unduly final.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    I know, but I just would prefer a rolling discussion on one game a week.
    Otherwise we end up with a ton of open topics to be discussed anytime, and we already have a general chat thread for that!
    Certainly, it is a good idea to include a link to previous discussions and debates, there are limits on stickys though, and I'd rather avoid making any more.
    Some weeks are good, some weeks quieter, depending on the title, that keeps the thread up in the current area of the forum while previous entries drop away, again, links might be the way to go.
    That's internet links, rather than this guy
    Wakerlink.jpg


This discussion has been closed.
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