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Focus Van VRT increase

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  • 04-12-2015 9:27pm
    #1
    zep
    Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭


    So I ordered a new focus van roughly 6 weeks ago, agreed extras price etc. Paid deposit. VRT at time I paid deposit was €200, got a call from dealer this week to say government have changed rules and now they want 13.5% VRT works out roughly €2800. So I know there have been no changes from revenue in relation to this. Where do I stand? Anyone else in the same boat?


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    #2
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    zep wrote: »
    So I ordered a new focus van roughly 6 weeks ago, agreed extras price etc. Paid deposit. VRT at time I paid deposit was €200, got a call from dealer this week to say government have changed rules and now they want 13.5% VRT works out roughly €2800. So I know there have been no changes from revenue in relation to this. Where do I stand? Anyone else in the same boat?

    Get a 2nd opinion, try another dealer or two.
    If it really has gone up, then maybe it's time to look at a different vehicle. ...

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #3
    martinr5232
    Registered Users Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭martinr5232


    I work in a ford dealers and just heard about this today dont know any details though.


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    #4
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,427 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Yep, R.O.R told us about this Last week.

    Odd that the vrt was only €200 in the first place
    Food have someone very creative in their commercial vehicles division.
    R.O.R wrote: »
    They haven't been advertising it for a while, but it was still available to order.

    Haven't had a Kuga price list through for a while to see if there is still technically a 4 seat version available, but I reckon it will be a while before we see one.

    Ford have dropped the Kuga Zetec spec, so now only Titanium available to order. Whether that is the same in 2 seat/4 seat commercial? No idea - was news to our contact in Ford that the Zetec had gone from the passenger model.

    There was also a surprise mail on Monday to say the Focus Van was now a Cat B commercial (13.3% VRT) rather than a Cat C (€200) commercial, with immediate effect and further information / pricing will be sent when it's available.

    There are some very good deals on the passenger cars though.

    If you signed a standard order form, then there would be a clause saying taxes could change.
    Don't know where that leaves you with your deposit, but they certainly won't have to honour the original price.


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    #5
    George Dalton
    Registered Users Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭George Dalton


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Yep, R.O.R told us about this Last week.

    Odd that the vrt was only €200 in the first place
    Ford have someone very creative in their commercial vehicles division.

    Definitely! Don't know how they were getting away with the €200 VRT tbh. I wonder does the same apply to other vans in the same class? Were VW at the same craic with the Golf etc?


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    #6
    CIP4
    Registered Users Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭CIP4


    George Dalton wrote: »
    Definitely! Don't know how they were getting away with the €200 VRT tbh. I wonder does the same apply to other vans in the same class? Were VW at the same craic with the Golf etc?

    The golf is 3 door though so might get away with it. I would have thought the fact the focus is 5 door is part of the issue 5 door car derived vans are only a fairly new thing there have been 3 door for a long time with no issue. Maybe I'm wrong though and they are just clamping down across the board.

    I remember seeing somewhere about the fact that if they are done in the factory like the current golf and focus were they actually come with no rear seats they get the VRT for 200 whereas the Leon was caught for the 13.3 % VRT from late last year because it was coming in as a car and being converted in Ireland I think seat have dropped the Leon van now.


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    #7
    martinr5232
    Registered Users Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭martinr5232


    The focus are converted cars done in cork.
    There is supposed to be a factory built one coming.


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    #8
    CIP4
    Registered Users Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭CIP4


    martinr5232 wrote: »
    The focus are converted cars done in cork.
    There is supposed to be a factory built one coming.

    I thought the focus was already being done in the factory but obviously not so. The mk7 golf van is done in the factory I'm nearly sure.


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    #9
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,427 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    CIP4 wrote: »
    The golf is 3 door though so might get away with it. I would have thought the fact the focus is 5 door is part of the issue 5 door car derived vans are only a fairly new thing there have been 3 door for a long time with no issue. Maybe I'm wrong though and they are just clamping down across the board.

    I remember seeing somewhere about the fact that if they are done in the factory like the current golf and focus were they actually come with no rear seats they get the VRT for 200 whereas the Leon was caught for the 13.3 % VRT from late last year because it was coming in as a car and being converted in Ireland I think seat have dropped the Leon van now.
    Auris van is 5 door, as is the Astra


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    #10
    CIP4
    Registered Users Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭CIP4


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Auris van is 5 door, as is the Astra

    Oh I know they are now but they weren't upto recently previous generation was 3 door in the auris. I think it definitely comes down to whether it is a car or van when it leaves the factory well that's what revenue judge it on now whereas that previously didn't matter as they always came as cars and were converted.


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    #11
    MuppetCheck
    Registered Users Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭MuppetCheck


    The megavan back in the day was a 5 door too technically.


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    #12
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,427 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    MuppetCheck wrote: »
    The megavan back in the day was a 5 door too technically.

    Pretty half-assed looking too, usually with fancy vinyl decals to distract you from the horror of the doors being bricked up.


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    #13
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,427 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    A Category C vehicle is a commercial vehicle, an agricultural tractor or a bus with a minimum of 10 seats including the driver's seat. In EU terms, Category C vehicles include N2 vehicles (over 3.5 tonnes and under 12 tonnes in weight), N3 vehicles (over 12 tonnes in weight), M2 vehicles (under 5 tonnes in weight, with a minimum of 10 seats including the driver's seat) and M3 vehicles (over 5 tonnes in weight, with a minimum of 10 seats including the driver's seat).
    N1 vehicles that, at the time of manufacture, have less than four seats and have a technically permissible maximum laden mass weight that is greater than 130 per cent of the mass in service of the vehicle with bodywork in running order also fit into this category.
    T1 to T5 agricultural vehicles fit into this category.
    The VRT rate applicable to Category C vehicles is a flat rate of €200.
    .


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    #14
    zep
    Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭zep


    Cheers for the replies, but in relation to a clause starting that taxes etc could change I can't see how that could be right. I've given a deposit agreed sale price but they can change that price anytime after order? Their argument is that revenue have changed the law, which they haven't, hence the extra 2.5k.
    Cheers


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    #15
    ants09
    Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭ants09


    VRT Category C – Heavy Commercial Vehicles

    The VRT rate applicable to Category C vehicles is a flat rate of €200.


    VRT Category C (EU Categories M2, M3, N2, N3, T1 to T5)
    A VRT Category C vehicle is a bus with a minimum of 10 seats including the driver’s seat, a
    commercial vehicle over 3.5 tonnes, an agricultural tractor or a listed vehicle. Please refer to
    Appendix 3 for more detail. Vehicles classified as EU Categories M2, M3, N2, N3, T1 to T5
    are charged VRT at €200.


    VRT Category B – Light commercial Vehicles

    The rate of VRT applicable to Category B vehicles, subject to a minimum VRT of €125, is 13.3% of the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP).


    VRT Category B (EU Category N1)
    Vehicles classified as EU Category N1 (light commercial vehicle) are generally VRT
    Category B vehicles and liable to VRT at 13.3% based on the OMSP with a minimum charge
    of €125.00.
    However, certain vehicles, that at all stages of manufacture are classified as EU Category N1
    vehicles with less than 4 seats, and have, at any stage of manufacture, a technically
    permissible maximum laden mass weight that is greater than 130% of the mass in service of
    the vehicles with bodywork in good running order, and are designed and constructed for the
    carriage of goods with a maximum mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes, are VRT Category C and
    8
    Revenue Operational Manual VRT Section 1
    are charged VRT of €200 subject to the correct documentation accompanying the vehicle e.g.
    Certificate of Conformity/NSSTA/IVA.


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    #16
    aaakev
    Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    zep wrote: »
    Cheers for the replies, but in relation to a clause starting that taxes etc could change I can't see how that could be right. I've given a deposit agreed sale price but they can change that price anytime after order? Their argument is that revenue have changed the law, which they haven't, hence the extra 2.5k.
    Cheers
    But the dealer hasn't changed the price, revenue have. The dealer is making nothing more on the deal than they were before. I feel for you op but you can't expect the dealer to take the hit here although a chat with the sales manager might do some good to soften the blow, i know if it was my customer coming to me with the same issue id do what i could to help them out even of that meant making less of a margin than originally agreed or giving something extra to them


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    #17
    zep
    Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭zep


    aaakev wrote: »
    But the dealer hasn't changed the price, revenue have. The dealer is making nothing more on the deal than they were before. I feel for you op but you can't expect the dealer to take the hit here although a chat with the sales manager might do some good to soften the blow, i know if it was my customer coming to me with the same issue id do what i could to help them out even of that meant making less of a margin than originally agreed or giving something extra to them

    Cheers for reply and I'll be discussing options with the dealer. But I think you missed my point, revenue haven't changed anything recently. It's obviously how Ford interpretation of the rules seems to have been wrong, or they were just bending the rules to compete with the Golf.
    Cheers


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    #18
    aaakev
    Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    zep wrote: »
    Cheers for reply and I'll be discussing options with the dealer. But I think you missed my point, revenue haven't changed anything recently. It's obviously how Ford interpretation of the rules seems to have been wrong, or they were just bending the rules to compete with the Golf.
    Cheers
    If thats the case and they were mistaken it will be a mistake at distributor level in which case i would really push that fact with the dealer and if they are reluctant to help escalate it to ford ireland yourself

    Henry Ford & Son Ltd
    Elm Court
    Boreenmanna Road
    Cork
    T12HHW2


    Telephone: 1800 771199


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    #19
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Have Ford increased the price of the Focus van rather than taking the hit themselves?

    There are other cat b commercials that are cheaper than the Focus, so I see no reason it has to go up at all.

    If Ford don't absorb the price increase, them cancel the order and get an i Pro instead.


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    #20
    Christyd
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭Christyd


    A mate has a new Focus van ordered for 161 and price is being kept as agreed


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    #21
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Whats it failing on .. the 130% or the fact it's delivered here then changed ?


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    #22
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    celtic_oz wrote: »
    Whats it failing on .. the 130% or the fact it's delivered here then changed ?

    "unforeseen changes to the engineering process on Focus Van" is the official (and suitably vague) explanation.

    That was the 23rd November with more information and updated price list to follow in the coming days. Haven't had any further communication since.


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    #23
    Jesper
    Registered Users Posts: 814 ✭✭✭Jesper


    Christyd wrote: »
    A mate has a new Focus van ordered for 161 and price is being kept as agreed

    I had a price agreed for the new Focus but when I went to confirm extra's etc. I was told of the price change "literlly this morning". So now a new Focus is well off my list. The only viable options as I see it are

    Golf
    i-Pro (but frustratingly this only seems to come int the 1.4td)
    I felt cramped in the Auris so it's off my list.

    Or second hand.


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    #24
    zep
    Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭zep


    They convert in Cork I've been informed.. so they don't qualify for the €200 VRT. Don't know how they been getting away with it for last 3 or do years. Very frustrating.....


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    #25
    zep
    Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭zep


    Christyd wrote: »
    A mate has a new Focus van ordered for 161 and price is being kept as agreed

    Can you send details of Dealer etc. Might be able to use as leverage.


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    #26
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    zep wrote: »
    They convert in Cork I've been informed.. so they don't qualify for the €200 VRT. Don't know how they been getting away with it for last 3 or do years. Very frustrating.....

    Most Irish commercials need some form of conversion in country. They leave the country without the rear seats, but the flat floor, rear carpets, window blanking and bulkhead are fitted locally.

    No idea what has changed, but I'd say Ford annoyed the wrong person in Revenue/NSAI with the 4 Seat Kuga Commercial, so everything got scrutinized.


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    #27
    Christyd
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭Christyd


    He said if he had deal done and his name on car before increase announced they will keep €200 Vrt
    I'll get him to check why his dealer can do this before naming


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    #28
    zep
    Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭zep


    Christyd wrote: »
    He said if he had deal done and his name on car before increase announced they will keep €200 Vrt
    I'll get him to check why his dealer can do this before naming

    Great, appreciate that


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    #29
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,427 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Hi wonder how much he's paying though. Odd that they could just drop 2 grand on the deal.


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