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Adverse Possession / Squatters Rights

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  • 07-07-2015 2:52pm
    #1
    Strum
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭


    Do any of you have any experience in this?

    I'm just curious. There is a piece of abandoned land behind my house approximately 15 ft x 8 ft where no less than five properties that were built at odd angles (causing this space) back on to it. The only access to it is over a wall from any of the adjoining houses, in other words it is inaccessible any other way.
    None of my neighbours have the slightest bit of interest in it either. So my question is if I were to go through my fence can I claim it after 12 years if there are no objections, and how do I go about it? Any feedback much appreciated. Cheers.


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    #2
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    http://www.prai.ie/adverse-possession-first-registration/

    Good luck- almost impossible to get in practice


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    #3
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    It's possible but it's more of a shield than a sword. After 12 years everyone else is barred from claiming it (in theory).

    TBH just start using it but don't get too attached to it would be my lay opinion.


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    #4
    chopser
    Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭chopser


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    http://www.prai.ie/adverse-possession-first-registration/

    Good luck- almost impossible to get in practice

    How is it impossible? How many applications have you had refused?


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    #5
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Well there must be some reason as to why one of the gardens wasnt extended onto the free space such as water pipes etc.

    The one thing i do know is you have to prove you were maintaining the piece of land for the 12 years, i.e. cutting the grass/hedges etc.


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    #6
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    the fella next door to us cuts a bit of grass on what is our land, it would take a lot more than proving he's been cutting the grass to get squatters rights on it.

    The way I can see squatters rights happening is that if there was a mix up with plans and your boundary was actually put too far and you had some land that wasn't yours. years later someone couldn't reclaim that land because you've been treating it as your own for more than 12 years.

    Very hard to prove if the land isn't fenced off from others or yourself. if its on the other side of a wall you've no chance of claiming it as your own, how have you been getting to it for the last 12 years if it's walled off? You've been hopping the wall to get to it?


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    #7
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    the fella next door to us cuts a bit of grass on what is our land, it would take a lot more than proving he's been cutting the grass to get squatters rights on it.

    Ah now most neighbours cut some part of each others grass. But I do know as fact if there is clearly unused land attached to your garden and you maintain it for the timeframe then you can apply for it but it doesnt mean you will get it, it just makes your case stronger.


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    #8
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    I wasn't having a go at you but maintaining a bit of land wouldn't give you squatters rights on it same way going out maintaining the roads wouldn't lead to owning them. you're right though that treating the land as if it was your own (and maintaining it would be a part of that) would be a big part of getting squatters rights on the land, but at the same time if it's not within your boundaries and it's behind a wall, the most you could retain would be a right of way if you were using that land for years.

    It's a good thing its like this though, ireland has many soft boundaries around houses, bushes and fences and whatever else marking them can move over many years, there's a decent part of our garden occupied by next door because they're arse holes and also the boundary moved when trees were knocked by a storm. in 12 years they would be laughed at if they tried to get the boundary changed on the topographic osi map. it doesn't work like finders keepers, that's why we have folio maps to prove ownership

    it would have to be quite a specific situation for squatters rights to be given, i.e. someone unknowingly been occupying land that did not belong to them and treating it as their own for many years. I don't think there's any room for laying claim to something belonging to someone else just because they're not using it


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    #9
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    I wasn't having a go at you but maintaining a bit of land wouldn't give you squatters rights on it same way going out maintaining the roads wouldn't lead to owning them. you're right though that treating the land as if it was your own (and maintaining it would be a part of that) would be a big part of getting squatters rights on the land, but at the same time if it's not within your boundaries and it's behind a wall, the most you could retain would be a right of way if you were using that land for years.

    It's a good thing its like this though, ireland has many soft boundaries around houses, bushes and fences and whatever else marking them can move over many years, there's a decent part of our garden occupied by next door because they're arse holes and also the boundary moved when trees were knocked by a storm. in 12 years they would be laughed at if they tried to get the boundary changed on the topographic osi map. it doesn't work like finders keepers, that's why we have folio maps to prove ownership

    it would have to be quite a specific situation for squatters rights to be given, i.e. someone unknowingly been occupying land that did not belong to them and treating it as their own for many years. I don't think there's any room for laying claim to something belonging to someone else just because they're not using it

    Yeah, we had a large area at the back of our house but the back wall blocked it, there was a water pipe running about 30feet away from our back wall. We enquired about the land and was told by someone in the council that if we installed a door in the back wall and maintained the area after x amount of time we could claim the land but wasnt guaranteed to get it.


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    #10
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    chopser wrote: »
    How is it impossible? How many applications have you had refused?

    I have claimed it once. The PRAI will write to everyone on title, the neighbours, you have to show investigations of title and attempts to contact the owner, swear affidavits and show evidence of use, and the Animus possidendi.

    Its a cluster-fcuk and took years and a LOT of hassle. You wouldnt want to be in a hurry.

    In practice I advise people to register possessory title and just sit it out. This might not be an option of you are in a hurry to sell but that will come down to negotiation between the parties.

    In practice I have had a possessory title on a 999 year lease rejected on the basis that in 964 odd years the true reversionary interest would have a right to defeat the claim. All sorts of mad nonsensical rejections.

    The PRAI will put up every roadblock they can so be prepared to be patient and expend a LOT of time and money.

    Possessory title is no title really.


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    #11
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    One of the major difficulties in these sorts of applications is showing the title to the property against which the applicant's claim lies.

    Showing such title is not a problem with registered land because a copy of the title can be taken up from the Land Registry website. Assuming absolute freehold title, if the applicant has the relevant period of possession and can trace the occupation of the property back to the registered owner, a successful s.49 application in the Land Registry will mean that the applicant will be registered with absolute freehold title to the property.

    The process is likely to be time-consuming and expensive and there may be no guarantee of success but if all of the relevant proofs are in place, these applications can (and do) succeed.


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    #12
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    What if someone wanted to oppose another's occupation of a piece of as where they had tended it? How would hey do so?


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    #13
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    cerastes wrote: »
    What if someone wanted to oppose another's occupation of a piece of as where they had tended it? How would hey do so?

    What do you mean? To stop someone tending a piece of land they don't own? Or stop someone using a piece of land that you've been tending to (but you also don't own it)


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    #14
    Strum
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Strum


    Sorry for not getting back sooner folks, your feedback is great info thanks. I'll elaborate on it with photos so you'll know what I mean. Back soon. ;)


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    #15
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Strum wrote: »
    Sorry for not getting back sooner folks, your feedback is great info thanks. I'll elaborate on it with photos so you'll know what I mean. Back soon. ;)

    Please dont. Legal advice is banned here. Posting pictures to identify the property is not a good idea.


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    #16
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Strum wrote: »
    Sorry for not getting back sooner folks, your feedback is great info thanks. I'll elaborate on it with photos so you'll know what I mean. Back soon. ;)

    Mod:

    Legal advice is not allowed. By all means hire a solicitor but please do not post your details here.

    Please don't post any details at all.


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    #17
    Strum
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Strum


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    Please dont. Legal advice is banned here. Posting pictures to identify the property is not a good idea.


    It won't indentify it at all, google earth from above just to point out what I mean. ;)


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    #18
    brian_t
    Registered Users Posts: 6,666 ✭✭✭brian_t


    Strum wrote: »
    None of my neighbours have the slightest bit of interest in it either.

    Your neighbours might be happy with the status quo. Once that changes they might think differently.


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    #19
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    brian_t wrote: »
    Your neighbours might be happy with the status quo. Once that changes they might think differently.

    :pac::pac::pac: I'm wondering if this OP is my neighbour behind my house as he described the same location of the 'waste land that nobody wants'. I reckon everyone's eyeing it up OP!!! /Follow thread/

    IS it possible for a group surrounding the area to get together and declare it a common area, i.e. all get together and build a common barbecue area??


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    #20
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Anyone on the land is by definition a teresspasser. A group of you can get togeather and declare it a nudist beach if you want. Doesn't mean it's going to be any easier or harder to make a claim for it after others are barred from doing so.

    If it is a nudist beach would you let me know the address please. :pac:


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