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Now Ye're Talkin' To A Cactus & Succulent Enthusiast!

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  • 17-04-2015 11:18am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭


    A wha?

    Well this was the first time I had to ask our AMA guest "what do I call you?" I'd like you all to meet our member pyxxel who's been growing cacti and other plants such as aloes and agaves for over 35 years.

    So if you're wondering what a succulent is and why anyone'd want to grow a plant that can injure you, here's your chance :D


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    Spring has sprung, time to talk plants eh? Just to clarify what we're talking about:

    This is a typical cactus...
    https://scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10252166_10152418793398694_4423790634443004636_n.jpg?oh=3487e2283beaba6f763da5347e2816c3&oe=55AC2790

    ...and these are typical other succulents:
    http://img1.etsystatic.com/003/0/6754193/il_fullxfull.356158665_9sg1.jpg%3Fref%3Dl2

    Of course there are a myriad of other forms, shapes, colours, sizes etc., but this may give you an idea. By definition, a succulent plant stores water/moisture in its "fleshy" plant parts, either the leaves or the stem. Practically all cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are cacti ;)


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,018 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    Is aloe vera a type of succulent? It looks like the plants in the second image there.

    Do you have cactuses/cactii (?!) all over your house or are they confined to the garden? Most people seem to have the little ones indoors rather than outdoors but the ones you see pictures of in say the desert look pretty magnificent. I doubt they'd thrive in the Irish climate though, or would they?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    What's a good "starter" cactus for kids to start growing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    I would say any of the rosette-type succulents like Echeveria, Aloe, Gasteria or Crassula are very easy-going and withstand a lot of neglect. If you google these you find a wide choice. The benefit is also that they don't have spines, so they are also great for smaller children, like 4 and up. They usually tolerate normal potting compost too and don't need special cactus compost mix.

    The main thing is that like most plants, they need as much light as possible, so a sunny window sill is best. I would recommend planting a few together into a small bowl, they grow much better, look nicer and offer variety that way!

    If the kid likes a "prickly" plant (most boys go for them!), I would recommend Gymnocalycium, Notocactus and Parodia species. They flower when young and are not too fussy. To keep the shape natural and induce flowering though it's usually best to give the plants a rest during winter, where you water little or not at all, and if possible keep them in a cooler environment (i.e. not right above a radiator). The still need lots of light though, so a bright window sill is the least. Conservatories are much better!

    BTW don't be tempted to get one of those poor plants with Mexican hats and silly eyes stuck onto them, because pricking a soft-tissue plant with metal needles is a sure-fire way of getting infections into the plant. I've also seen succulents in garden centres spray-painted with red or blue glitter, you can imagine this ain't good for the plant and can lead to disease and death of the plant. People who like those should get plastic flowers! ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    miamee wrote: »
    Is aloe vera a type of succulent? It looks like the plants in the second image there.

    Do you have cactuses/cactii (?!) all over your house or are they confined to the garden? Most people seem to have the little ones indoors rather than outdoors but the ones you see pictures of in say the desert look pretty magnificent. I doubt they'd thrive in the Irish climate though, or would they?

    Aloe vera is indeed a succulent, it's on of about 500 Aloe species!

    I'm lucky to have a south-facing back garden, and we built a conservatory a few years ago. Most of my plants are there for the entire year. Some of them grow quite fast, so eventually I'll have to think of giving them away to the Botanic Gardens or some friends with large greenhouses! As you mention, some cacti and other succulents grow quite large, eventually to tree size, so there's an issue...

    Here's an image of some of my plants, not a great shot but it shows some of the taller plants: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10257083_10152466454088694_9081679924280760535_n.jpg?oh=22a44fc4fda6fe2393922c3196034b72&oe=55E005FF&__gda__=1440811136_cd871eed354772fb0d5bed50b03b5da5
    ...incidentally, it shows a smaller orange-flowering cactus in the back. That is my oldest specimen, I have it for at least 35 years, it never grows much taller but flowers every summer, all summer long! A real trooper.

    You are right, the Irish weather is not suitable for most succulents or cacti. It wouldn't be the winter temperatures that kills them, but rather the humidity. Many cactus species grow at high altitudes in Mexico or the Andes and can withstand severe frost, but not along with much moisture.

    That said, there are a lot of native European varieties of succulents (not cacti), like Sedum and Sempervivum, often sold as rockery plants in nurseries. They do well in Irish climate, but do better if they have good drainage. Look at the Burren with its many native succulent species - great drainage!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭orthsquel


    I may not know the names, but I certainly recognise all the ones you've named and in photos from my mother's window sills! The thrill I get out of them myself though are the flowers, very beautiful and that's something I really like about them in general.

    I'd like to invest in some at some point, from either cuttings (is that possible for all cactus and succulent, or just some?) or bought from a garden centre.... but how do I tell a healthy cactus or succulent from an unhealthy one (aside from the type with the hat or glitter) ? Are supermarket ones any good or am I better off sticking with a garden centre?

    And some expertise: In the past my mother has given me cuttings of a type of Aloe Vera that I can only describe as with a big stem and clumps of "leaf" (for lack of a better word) raising upwards... and they go fine, grow tall and for whatever reason they seem to sort of fall over and start going brown at the base upwards and it seems to dry out even with and without watering - what would be the cause and what's the best thing to do when that happens?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,329 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Are you in the 'cacti' or 'catuses' school of thought?


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    orthsquel wrote: »
    I may not know the names, but I certainly recognise all the ones you've named and in photos from my mother's window sills! The thrill I get out of them myself though are the flowers, very beautiful and that's something I really like about them in general.

    Kudos to your mum for getting her plants to flower! Yes apart from the sometimes strange and fascinating spination and colouring of the plants themselves, I do love many cacti for their beautiful flowers, some of which can get larger than the cactus itself! Check out this little beaut, where the two heads are no larger than 1/2 an inch: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10015016_10152382756593694_1222769457_n.jpg?oh=ed48fe4631230c3c66e6fb734d0b9192&oe=559D0B02&__gda__=1440974881_1d174637861c3e21bf017f8ab675fd02 ...or this night-flowering Echinopsis in full bloom: https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11174905_10153343560493694_96930699122777478_n.jpg?oh=ee63ab36c0dd6f786cf55f5079d63572&oe=5598683F ...these flowers open around 8pm and stay open for about 20 hours before wilting away!
    orthsquel wrote: »
    I'd like to invest in some at some point, from either cuttings (is that possible for all cactus and succulent, or just some?) or bought from a garden centre.... but how do I tell a healthy cactus or succulent from an unhealthy one (aside from the type with the hat or glitter) ? Are supermarket ones any good or am I better off sticking with a garden centre?

    Most garden centre and supermarket cacti in Ireland come from large Dutch nurseries. Usually they are well-grown when they arrive, but then suffer neglect when on sale here! Dutch plants are usually grown in sterile peat and fed with specialist fertilisers to get them ready to market.

    Once the plants are in our homes their requirements change. I have bought many of my plants from such sources, but the first thing I do is repot them into a cactus soil mix (I mix my own because it's cheaper - 50% John Innis No.1 potting compost, 20% grit, 15% sand, 15% vermiculite or perlite - not measured exactly!). When repotting I get as much of the original soil off, then let the roots dry for a few days or a week, then pot into moist (not wet) compost.

    BTW some of my best plants are from a Lidl special! But one of our members in the Dublin & District Cactus & Succulent Society (YES there is such a thing!) is bringing in plants grown by specialist nurseries in the UK to sell on. They are high quality and you find many species you would not normally get! I don't know what the policies are on this board so I won't advertise him directly yet, but can give his address (in Saggart) on request. Oh and I'd have tons of spare plants and cuttings to give away! I do that all the time.

    When looking at plants in garden centres, take care that lot of times the labels are mixed up or lost as most staff don't want to go near the prickly plants, and don't know enough about them. Many cacti can get infested with woolly aphids (mealy bug) so do look out for these in the apex or around the plant base. Other than that, check for black spots around the plant base. This indicates rot and often enough such a plant is doomed and will die within a week or so!

    Cuttings are very possible with almost all cacti and succulents, just make sure to let the juicy surface of the cut dry off and callous over for a week or two. Then place it into a sandy, moist soil mix and wait! It can take several months for roots to develop (sometimes a year or two!), and don't be tempted to check every week as that disturbs the process! I would keep a cutting away from the sunniest, hottest spot, as it puts the plant under stress while it has no way of replenishing lost moisture.
    orthsquel wrote: »
    And some expertise: In the past my mother has given me cuttings of a type of Aloe Vera that I can only describe as with a big stem and clumps of "leaf" (for lack of a better word) raising upwards... and they go fine, grow tall and for whatever reason they seem to sort of fall over and start going brown at the base upwards and it seems to dry out even with and without watering - what would be the cause and what's the best thing to do when that happens?

    Can you describe the plant a little more? What shape are the leaves, are they rounded or pointy? What colour are they (other than "green"!), are they smooth or do they have bumps, pits, grooves, hairs etc.?

    From what you describe it sounds like they are rotting from the base. If they are kept relatively dry and they still rot, it might be other factors, like lack of light making the plant grow elongated and stretched, or cold drafts. Some stems can grow very tall and then keel over under their own weight, putting the point where it bends under stress or damage it, which can invite fungus spores to move in and cause rotting. Have you tried staking the stems to keep them upright? Would you have a picture perhaps?


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    Are you in the 'cacti' or 'catuses' school of thought?

    I don't really mind any more, but as a trained linguist I would stick with the latin ending, cacti! ;)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thanks for the hint on children - I was wondering what to start growing this summer with my daughter (4.5) that would be different to the plants I did before (I tended to go for the ones that bloom in seconds before your eyes so she could have the wonder of watching that). The cactus seems like a good idea. I will follow up on what you wrote here and anything else.

    Was also going to turn my hand to - probably out of your purview - repeating an attempt to grow a venus fly trap. Do not know why I failed before as I did everything I was told by the supplier and various websites - right down to distilled water. And it thrived for some time - then just - didn't. And remarkably quick was the failure once it started. Oh well. One more try :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    Was also going to turn my hand to - probably out of your purview - repeating an attempt to grow a venus fly trap. Do not know why I failed before as I did everything I was told by the supplier and various websites - right down to distilled water. And it thrived for some time - then just - didn't. And remarkably quick was the failure once it started. Oh well. One more try :)

    Yeah I tried that myself once a long time ago, with similar results. Mind you plants don't live forever and sometimes just die of "natural causes"! Not every little weed can be a 1000-year-old tree! (Some large cacti are thought to be of similar age too, btw)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I remember in some tropical and botanical gardens - in germany and spain - they had "shaped" cacti. Obviously meticulously influenced to grow into big shapes (hearts - intertwined back on themselves - etc etc) and even up and around polls and walls like you might do with ivy. They also seemed to grow remarkably large.

    I have in the garden a kind of covered area - good strong bright wood - covering part of an outdoor jacuzzi thing with a bench area for changing or undressing - and a small cocktail bar thing. Considering growing ivy up the legs of it - but wondering is there something more - eccentric - I could do instead :)

    Then again cocktails - nudity - and skinny dipping might not be a good combination with multiple sharp pointy things :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,912 ✭✭✭✭Eeden


    pyxxel wrote: »
    I don't really mind any more, but as a trained linguist I would stick with the latin ending, cacti! ;)

    But the word has entered the English language now, so shouldn't we just Englishis(z)e the plural? Like we do for words like Stadium, Forum, Octopus (a Greek word, so Octopi is not correct...) :D

    Sorry! As a non-green thumbed person, I can't comment on the actual plants ... they'd gang up on me and kill me! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭thelad95


    Should Jeremy Clarkson have been sacked?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭sunbeam


    What is the longest you have left any of your plants without watering?


  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Paulownia


    There is a wonderful cacti garden in Monaco which any cactus but should visit. I have a small collection in my holiday home because they do not need to be watered incessantly to survive but the ones we have at home that get watered regularly do much better,
    When I travel I often bring back a tiny cutting from a cactus or succulent as a living souvenir of my trip.
    Many succulent plants can be propagated from a single leaf and I often give these to children to encourage them to begin a collection.


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    I remember in some tropical and botanical gardens - in germany and spain - they had "shaped" cacti. Obviously meticulously influenced to grow into big shapes (hearts - intertwined back on themselves - etc etc) and even up and around polls and walls like you might do with ivy. They also seemed to grow remarkably large.

    I have in the garden a kind of covered area - good strong bright wood - covering part of an outdoor jacuzzi thing with a bench area for changing or undressing - and a small cocktail bar thing. Considering growing ivy up the legs of it - but wondering is there something more - eccentric - I could do instead :)

    Then again cocktails - nudity - and skinny dipping might not be a good combination with multiple sharp pointy things :)

    Heh well that's probably not a good idea all right! Never mind the decribed dangers to party revellers, the Irish climate would not bode well for most cacti and succulents :p

    I'd be curious what kind of plants you had seen. There are tropical cactus species that cling to trees and climb up like this, they grow holding roots above ground to anchor themselves. Maybe that's what you saw? https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/50/143879024_80c6ac6972.jpg I have one such plant and don't like it much, it grows quite vividly but isn't really pretty! Plus, its anchor roots took hold of the wall side of the window and it wasn't easy to pry it off :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    Eeden wrote: »
    But the word has entered the English language now, so shouldn't we just Englishis(z)e the plural? Like we do for words like Stadium, Forum, Octopus (a Greek word, so Octopi is not correct...) :D

    Sorry! As a non-green thumbed person, I can't comment on the actual plants ... they'd gang up on me and kill me! :D

    Living languages change permanently, so whatever rocks your boat... as for the plants killing you, there are no carnivorous succulents so your life would not be in danger - you'd just suffer horrifically... :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    I have aloe vera here....Is it possible to make natural aloe vera juice from it....
    I can peel off the green layer and blend the jelly substance inside and make it like that... GOod or bad idea?


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    sunbeam wrote: »
    What is the longest you have left any of your plants without watering?

    Great question. I usually give my plants a dryer resting period during the winter months. I'd divide the answer into two:

    1. Plants from arid regions (deserts, scrub lands, dry mountain slopes & highlands) - I fade out watering those usually during October. They are left completely dry until March, and in April I start waking them up with small doses of water every weekend or 2nd weekend, depending on outside temperature and levels of sunshine. These type of plants reside in the conservatory almost the entire year.

    2. Plants from more humid regions - subtropical and tropical, like grasslands and rain forests. Those succulents and cacti typically come from the likes of Florida/Caribbean/Middle America, down to Brasil, and over in Africa and South-East Asia from rain forests. They don't tolerate very cold temperatures as much (like mild frosts) so they generally go into the house, and they get small doses of water every 2-3 weeks.

    To determine what plants fall into what category, my friend Lyn has a great video on Youtube: https://youtu.be/4Dlbd9e6iIk

    Even during the summer months, I generally only water every 2nd week (or when I'm lazy, it goes into week 3!). It's entirely possible to go on a 2 or 3 week holiday and come back to healthy, thriving plants, with new flowers! A few years ago we went on a 7-week around-the-world trip during November & December and the plants were just fine.

    That's really the cool thing about succulents - they are well-equipped to handle draughts and will happily suffer a little neglect - one of the main reasons I do so well with them! :pac:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    Paulownia wrote: »
    There is a wonderful cacti garden in Monaco which any cactus but should visit. I have a small collection in my holiday home because they do not need to be watered incessantly to survive but the ones we have at home that get watered regularly do much better,
    When I travel I often bring back a tiny cutting from a cactus or succulent as a living souvenir of my trip.
    Many succulent plants can be propagated from a single leaf and I often give these to children to encourage them to begin a collection.

    Yep, I fully agree. Those leaf cuttings are fab for kids, almost like magic! The main thing is that cuttings and leaves have dried off a few days before they're put into soil, so they don't rot.

    For how long do you leave the plants in the holiday home dry? Some species, like the "living stones" Lithops etc., are much more geared towards long periods of absolute dryness, and they cope well with 2-3 months of watering during their flowering period in late autumn, while they should be left bone-dry for the other 9-10 months!

    I've seen pictures of the gardens in Monaco, it's a great location all right. Never been there myself, it's on the list!


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    One more link about propagating succulents - again a nice video by our cactus group member Lyn: https://youtu.be/g9q0uQ61zoM


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    kupus wrote: »
    I have aloe vera here....Is it possible to make natural aloe vera juice from it....
    I can peel off the green layer and blend the jelly substance inside and make it like that... GOod or bad idea?

    Sorry I don't really have any experience with that - I could google it but then so could you! Anyone else have some ideas or tips?

    BTW many cacti and succulents contain potent substances for medical and, shall we say, "recreational" applications... honorary mention goes to the famous Peyote cactus (Lophophora williamsii) which has been known for centuries by Mexican Indian tribes for their psychoactive alkaloids, i.e. drug use. Likewise I have no personal experience with it but it's so widely known that the plant is illegal to grow in the US! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭orthsquel


    Excellent answers and information! Those flowers are incredibly beautiful.

    That particular cactus was from a few years ago, and no photos of it and tried quick googling for the right image but a bit short of time at the moment. But it was triangular green leaves with bumps akin to a standard pic of an aloe vera but in a long stem from what I can remember. I suspect that what you said in your answer that any of that was possible :o I won't be investing right away (short of space) but all that information is fantastic and certainly will be taking better care in the future.

    Over the years in offices I've seen people often have real cacti on their desks or on top of or beside computer hard drives - is that sort of environment at all healthy for them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    orthsquel wrote: »
    That particular cactus was from a few years ago, and no photos of it and tried quick googling for the right image but a bit short of time at the moment. But it was triangular green leaves with bumps akin to a standard pic of an aloe vera but in a long stem from what I can remember. I suspect that what you said in your answer that any of that was possible :o I won't be investing right away (short of space) but all that information is fantastic and certainly will be taking better care in the future.

    Some Aloes grow upright with the rosettes ending up on a stem when the older leaves dry and fall off, so it does sound like one of the many species of Aloe! Most plants in their natural habitat are constantly pruned naturally by grazing animals, windbreak and other factors, so sometimes I think we let our houseplants grow too tall and they haven't got the natural ability to support their own weight! I have some succulents that absolutely need to get staked, I don't think they ever stand 6 feet tall in their habitat :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    orthsquel wrote: »
    Over the years in offices I've seen people often have real cacti on their desks or on top of or beside computer hard drives - is that sort of environment at all healthy for them?

    Short answer: NO!

    Most office desks are far to dark for any plants, let alone desert plants that are adapted to high light levels. I've met people keeping a cactus on their desk and telling me "yeah it's doing ok here, had it for years and it's fine" and when I take a closer look I can show them they have a long-dead, hollow, spiny husk sitting in a pot! They then tell me they have never watered it because "cacti don't need water" :confused:

    Many cacti are very resilient and will actually stay alive for many months even when kept in darkness, only to get back to growing when the situation improves again - think landslides in arid mountains, or mud washing over them in semi-dry river valleys. This fact doesn't mean they will survive forever such environments. I keep telling people if they want something growing on their dark desks to try mushrooms! :P Some plants from dark, dank rain forest floors can do well in offices, but they too need at least some light for photosynthesis.

    Bottom line: ALL plants need light and water to live. Desert plants need more of the one and less of the other...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    For potting on cactus and succulents in pots...
    I've got quite a few and they do ok: but I've begun to lose faith in boughten compost. It seems to stay damp and soggy for too long, and then shrinks. Lately I have begun to use a batch of soil from my garden that contains a good part of clayey subsoil, plus a bit of my garden compost (home-made in bins)
    This seems to work beautifully - mineral-rich, fibrous and strong: but all the books seem to warn against using common garden soil. [Its full of pests and diseases! they claim]
    What is your opinion //what potting mixture would you recommend?


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭pyxxel


    katemarch wrote: »
    For potting on cactus and succulents in pots...
    I've got quite a few and they do ok: but I've begun to lose faith in boughten compost. It seems to stay damp and soggy for too long, and then shrinks. Lately I have begun to use a batch of soil from my garden that contains a good part of clayey subsoil, plus a bit of my garden compost (home-made in bins)
    This seems to work beautifully - mineral-rich, fibrous and strong: but all the books seem to warn against using common garden soil. [Its full of pests and diseases! they claim]
    What is your opinion //what potting mixture would you recommend?

    I've done that once myself, I used the very same clay subsoil you're talking about - and I had quite good results too! What I liked about it is that the clay holds water pretty well and sort of cakes together when drying, giving the plants a very good hold in pots and bowls. You can even compact it a little, simulating the heavy caked soil of arid, dry regions.

    The warnings are correct, there are pests and fungi present in garden soil - imagine what a few snails can do to the soft tissue of your succulents! They can wreak havoc in a very short time. Commercial compost from garden centres is usually treated and free of pests, germs and spores, but some mixes also contain added fertilizer and too much Nitrogen (N) can boost growth too much. What you can do is put the garden soil in the oven at low setting (I dunno, 100°C?) for half an hour or longer, which should kill off any unwanted stowaways and also kill weed seeds. The soil will lose most of its moisture too so you need to moisten it again before planting.

    I always mix my own cactus compost, and would recommend some sand, perlite or vermiculite (the latter looks better) and grit. I don't really measure the proportions, but test it by pressing the compost together in my fist - if it falls apart easily after pressing, it's right for me!

    If you have a pH tester (I don't!) you can even check the acidity of the soil. Most cacti and succulents like a slightly acidic soil, pH 5 or 6 is great.

    I also use some grit or stones as top dressing in pots and bowls. It looks neater, helps keeping the compost moist for longer and drains excess moisture from the more delicate root crown (i.e. where the root comes out of the plant body).


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Very clear and helpful - thank you!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    When watering do you pour the water in the pot like other plants or do you spray them? I've heard spraying is done so that the water collects on the spines and gradually goes to the roots but I'm not sure it's necessary or if most of the water would evaporate before it gets to the roots anyway.


This discussion has been closed.
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