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Dublin cycle tracks

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  • 08-04-2015 3:28pm
    #1
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,065 ✭✭✭


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Word has not reached Dublin on such initiatives

    Well you should be on the cycle path! :rolleyes:

    I was doing about 40kph down Churchtown Road on Monday, there's a lovely surfaced separate cycle track there. I tried using it, until I came across a builder's van parked across it. Onto the road so.

    Further along a car was parked in it, hazard lights flashing. As I went past it, the woman in the car behind beeped at me, presumably to tell me I should be using the cycle track, and bunny hopping over the parked vehicles.


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    #2
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I dread to think how much money was wasted on that cycle track in Churchtown.


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    #3
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭Fian


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    I dread to think how much money was wasted on that cycle track in Churchtown.

    less than was wasted on many other cycle tracks - at least that one is worth using as compared to the many cycle tracks which are best ignored in favour of using the road. The N11 one being a case in point I guess.


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    #4
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Definitely one of the least objectionable ones. Nice and wide, and junctions seem ok. At least, they are when going from Rathfarnham to Churchtown. Not great going from Dundrum to Rathfarnham.


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    #5
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    buffalo wrote: »
    Further along a car was parked in it, hazard lights flashing. As I went past it, the woman in the car behind beeped at me, presumably to tell me I should be using the cycle track, and bunny hopping over the parked vehicles.
    I get this now and again, never understood how unobservant some people must be not to notice the fact that the path is blocked, used to happen on the road outside Nutgrove every morning, cars would have used it as a car park space over night, but then people would beep and F and Blind if you used the road. I once had a van follow me down the road because he thought I had delayed him (despite being behind another car with only a metre to spare). After all his giving out, I realised he had turned of from where he wwas going (hill up by the bottle tower) to follow me up the road to give out to me for delaying him :rolleyes:
    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    I dread to think how much money was wasted on that cycle track in Churchtown.
    Fian wrote: »
    less than was wasted on many other cycle tracks - at least that one is worth using as compared to the many cycle tracks which are best ignored in favour of using the road. The N11 one being a case in point I guess.

    It does seem nice and I have used it a few time, a waste of money nonetheless as it seems to be used for car parking for anyone doing house renovations on that road, which ever since I moved to Dublin, have always been happening.

    When it is not, it is used as a footpath as the van has reversed into a driveway and blocked off the footpath.


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    #6
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I think it's dangerous. And I also think its existence has made cycling on the road next to it more hazardous.


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    #7
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I always found the road from Rathfarnham to Churchtown a bit tricky because of all the pinch points (which admittedly were created by the previous attempt at a cycle track).


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    #8
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    I think it's dangerous. And I also think its existence has made cycling on the road next to it more hazardous.

    I think its a better surface and wider, so an improvement on most cycle tracks but in general it still retains the same safety issues of cycle tracks in general, pinch points, junctions, loss of priority, loss of notice-ability (not the tracks fault but a side effect of it nonetheless) etc.


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    #9
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,065 ✭✭✭buffalo


    It's a grand track when you're cycling parallel to the road, but it's not great at junctions and bus stops. So it's great when you're travelling in a straight line, but leaves you unprotected at the most vulnerable parts. And I've never seen anyone ticketed for parking in it.

    What's the point of it?


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    #10
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    So that you can say you constructed x thousand km of cycle tracks in Dublin


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    #11
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    .. and to use any money allocated for it?


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    #12
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    beauf wrote: »
    .. and to use any money allocated for it?

    I think certain road funding won't come through if it's not done but I could be wrong.


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    #13
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I get this now and again, never understood how unobservant some people must be not to notice the fact that the path is blocked, used to happen on the road outside Nutgrove every morning, cars would have used it as a car park space over night, but then people would beep and F and Blind if you used the road.

    I'm sure lots of people don't notice anything that isn't immediately in front of their car. However I think some people feel that the cycle lane being blocked is the cyclists problem to deal with by, for example, dismounting and walking around the car, or, preferably, throw the bike in a skip and buy a car like a normal person. Whatever the possible solutions, coming out on to the road is not an acceptable one.


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    #14
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    I'm becoming more and more agitated by the crapness of cycle facilites in Dublin, and the risk it exposes me and occasionally my son to.

    Anyone got any constructive suggestions as to what I can do about this? Write to Varadkher? My local politicians? Any good lobby groups, cycling ireland?


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    #15
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,065 ✭✭✭buffalo


    a148pro wrote: »
    I'm becoming more and more agitated by the crapness of cycle facilites in Dublin, and the risk it exposes me and occasionally my son to.

    Anyone got any constructive suggestions as to what I can do about this? Write to Varadkher? My local politicians? Any good lobby groups, cycling ireland?

    Department of Health is unlikely to be much use. I'd try your local councillors, and then your local TDs.


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    #16
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    buffalo wrote: »
    It's a grand track when you're cycling parallel to the road, but it's not great at junctions and bus stops. So it's great when you're travelling in a straight line, but leaves you unprotected at the most vulnerable parts. And I've never seen anyone ticketed for parking in it.

    What's the point of it?

    I know bus stop bypasses should have been used, but: What's the issue with junctions?


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    #17
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    I won't speak for Buffalo but I assume its that the cyclist has to yield at every junction and then cross a line of opposing traffic. Sooner or later this is going to lead to an accident.


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    #18
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,837 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Posts moved from stayin' alive at 1.5 safe cycling campaign thread


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    #19
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,065 ✭✭✭buffalo


    monument wrote: »
    I know bus stop bypasses should have been used, but: What's the issue with junctions?

    I don't like being off the road and outside of a motorist's attention field, and then back on the road at a junction without something to indicate to the motorist that I am there, and I have priority. A sign might help, or a small kerb would be ideal.


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    #20
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I haven't used that track at rush hour, but it has been reasonably busy the times I've used it, and I didn't find the junctions bad at all. I'm well used to tracks making junctions unpredictable and losing priority, but I didn't have any unpleasant experience on any occasion so far. My experience is limited, but I rather like the track so far, going towards Dundrum, until you get to The Bottle Tower, when it's back to contention and confusion. It's certainly much better up to that point than the previous cycle track in that location. Coming back from Dundrum it's the usual dismal experience most of the way.


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    #21
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    a148pro wrote: »
    I won't speak for Buffalo but I assume its that the cyclist has to yield at every junction and then cross a line of opposing traffic. Sooner or later this is going to lead to an accident.

    That's not the case. There's no way while cycling you have to yield at every junction, although at bus stops you do.
    buffalo wrote: »
    I don't like being off the road and outside of a motorist's attention field, and then back on the road at a junction without something to indicate to the motorist that I am there, and I have priority. A sign might help, or a small kerb would be ideal.

    I could understand that on fully off-road cycle paths which are off-set and are then reestablished as cycle lanes at junctions but in this case the cycle track is light segragation and not off-set, it remains the same distance from the carriageway (throughout, if not mostly, if my memory serves me correctly).

    I don't honestly buy into the reasoning of why it's reestablished as a cycle lane just before the junction, but it's generally said to be done so at least partly to highlight the lane in a motorist's attention field. When the kerb goes all the way to the junction (which I think is better practice) others claim it makes the effect you're talking about worse, not better (I disagree).


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    #22
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Not to be fully dismissive:

    Here's Churchtown with the kerb ending and red treatment only before but not across the junction (pictured before it was fully finished... maybe more red treatment was put across the junction too?)...

    344658.jpg

    Here's Copenhagen with the kerb right up to the pedestrian crossing and their blue treatment across the junction:

    344659.JPG

    And Amsterdam with their red treatment across the junction and large white squares marking out the edge of the cycle lane across the junction:

    344660.JPG

    Or "sharks teeth", which is the Dutch standard yield painted marking, highlighting clear priority in Amsterdam:

    344661.JPG

    Maybe we need to relook at the issue of how we mark junctions?


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    #23
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    This is another reason why separated cycle tracks are better than those that run along the side of roads.

    I know there's a theory among cyclists that mixing bicycles and cars will somehow train drivers to be more considerate towards cyclists; I don't buy it.

    The only other suggestion I'd have is that a system should be laid in under the bicycle path that would immediately vaporize any non-cycle vehicle that comes onto it (naturally leaving the occupants sitting safely in mid-air, to topple slowly onto their bottoms on the path surface).


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