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Pavee point in common sense shocker!

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  • 14-02-2015 10:58am
    #1
    Boring username
    Closed Accounts Posts: 679 ✭✭✭


    End option to marry at 16 in the North, urges Pavee Point

    THE head of Pavee Point has called on the Catholic church to ‘harmonise’ the age of marriage on the island of Ireland.

    Martin Collins said it was a ‘ridiculous situation’ that young people of 16 and 17 can marry across the border, when the age of marriage in the Republic is 18.

    Mr Collins, from the Travellers’ representative group Pavee Point, estimated that around 20 young Traveller couples under the age of 18 cross the border each year to marry. “That’s far too many – in fact, one couple is too many,” he said.

    “These young people are only developing physically and emotionally and then they find themselves married – I think it is wrong and I believe most Travellers think it is wrong,” he said.


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/end-option-to-marry-at-16-in-the-north-urges-pavee-point-30990741.html

    A rare nugget of common sense from Mr. Collins, and one I would actually agree with. This culture of child brides is something that needs to be demolished, and I hope the government and church move swiftly to outlaw this barbaric practise.
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    #2
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,476 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    age is not really the issue if you're marrying your sister anyway


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    #3
    oceanman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭oceanman


    Boring username wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/end-option-to-marry-at-16-in-the-north-urges-pavee-point-30990741.html

    A rare nugget of common sense from Mr. Collins, and one I would actually agree with. This culture of child brides is something that needs to be demolished, and I hope the government and church move swiftly to outlaw this barbaric practise.
    plenty of countries allow marriage at 16....whats barbaric about it?


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    #4
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    I dont think it's barbaric but I do think it should be outlawed and the age upped to 18 minimum as most of these girls are uneducated and immature and too young to be able to make such an important life changing decision themselves.


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    #5
    Sir Osis of Liver.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Sir Osis of Liver.


    When a Traveller breaks up with his wife does he say,

    'I hope we can still be cousins.'


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    #6
    Johngoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Johngoose


    Will this put an end to people being shot dead at their weddings.They give a whole new meaning to the term "shotgun wedding."


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    #7
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,017 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Fair play Mr Collins. It's a step in the right direction but the bigger problem with getting married so young is that they never think about the possibilities for their life. No need to take school seriously if you're married in fifth year.


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    #8
    arayess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭arayess


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Fair play Mr Collins. It's a step in the right direction but the bigger problem with getting married so young is that they never think about the possibilities for their life. No need to take school seriously if you're married in fifth year.

    but the legal age of marriage has nothing to do with this.
    It's not like the min age of 16 is forcing people to get married


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    #9
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Load of bollix from pavee point, pass the book as usual,no mention of knives or shotguns at the wedding. Who's fault was that?


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    #10
    Boring username
    Closed Accounts Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Boring username


    oceanman wrote: »
    plenty of countries allow marriage at 16....whats barbaric about it?

    As Mr. Collins pointed out, at 16 a child is still growing mentally and physically. And if a child is getting married at 16, god knows what age the grooming started at.


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    #11
    Sir Osis of Liver.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Sir Osis of Liver.


    Young traveller girl sat with her mother the night before her wedding.

    Her mother says to her 'Bridie, I want to talk to you about your wedding night. Your husband will want to stick his most prized possession where you pee. '

    The girl turns to her mother and says 'Mammy, why would he want to put his tarmac rake in the sink'?


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    #12
    amen
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭amen


    But this isn't really a church issue. Its the law of the land. I believe you can still get married in the church at 14 just that that state won't recognise the marriage.


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    #13
    Boring username
    Closed Accounts Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Boring username


    Folks, can we steer away from the jokes and incest jibes. I'd like to have this open discussion without the mods shutting the thread down.
    Thanks.


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    #14
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    It's a sensible suggestion, but why do people in this thread focus on the girls so much? I understand the boys aren't much older in these situations.


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    #15
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    They'll just all head further afield to Gretna Green or wherever. This is a step in the right direction. It needs to be scaffolded with education and a culture change from within.


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    #16
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,562 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Should this not be a matter for the government? Why is the Catholic Church being allowed to decide things like this?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #17
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    So he argues that the age should be reduced from 18 to 16, then in the next breath argues that 16 is too young to get married? Where is the common sense in those two opposing statements?


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    #18
    Sir Gallagher
    Registered Users Posts: 6,836 ✭✭✭Sir Gallagher


    Martin Collins really has a thankless job to be honest, trying to maintain the integrity of decent travellers all whilst the nutters of the community marry off their kids, organise fist fights on youtube and rob houses. Unfortunately for him the decent travellers out there they seem to be outnumbered.

    It's a welcome comment from him, i'm sure he's sick of the bullsh1t and trash in his own community. He comes across as a good man, he must feel as though he's banging his head against a brick wall.


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    #19
    oceanman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭oceanman


    Boring username wrote: »
    As Mr. Collins pointed out, at 16 a child is still growing mentally and physically. And if a child is getting married at 16, god knows what age the grooming started at.
    so two years later at 18 they are all grown up and mature!!! how many girls in the settled community do you see pushing prambs at 16/17?
    also the shooting that took place at that wedding had noting at all to do with the age of the people getting married...


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    #20
    Littlehorny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭Littlehorny


    Its ridiculous in this day and age, the British government should have sorted this law out thirty years ago. Your too young to buy alcohol, vote or even buy a lottery ticket yet your old enough to get married!
    Stupid.


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    #21
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    wasn't the age set to 16 at one point?


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    #22
    excuse_me
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11 ✭excuse_me


    Sir Gallagher wrote: »
    Martin Collins really has a thankless job to be honest, trying to maintain the integrity of decent travellers all whilst the nutters of the community marry off their kids, organise fist fights on youtube and rob houses. Unfortunately for him the decent travellers out there they seem to be outnumbered.

    It's a welcome comment from him, i'm sure he's sick of the bullsh1t and trash in his own community. He comes across as a good man, he must feel as though he's banging his head against a brick wall.

    collins is an apologist ( and a tax payer funded one at that ) for rampant criminality and dysfunctionality within the traveller community


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    #23
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    oceanman wrote: »
    so two years later at 18 they are all grown up and mature!!! how many girls in the settled community do you see pushing prambs at 16/17?
    also the shooting that took place at that wedding had noting at all to do with the age of the people getting married...

    Let's face it, age is always an arbitrary way of determining adulthood. But given that the law regards an 18 year old as fully mature, it would be hard not to allow them to marry - what would you base that on?

    Ideally, we'd regard people as adults once they behave like adults, but who would get to decide that? Make them sit a test? Some people would never be able to become legal adults.


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    #24
    Boring username
    Closed Accounts Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Boring username


    oceanman wrote: »
    so two years later at 18 they are all grown up and mature!!! how many girls in the settled community do you see pushing prambs at 16/17?
    also the shooting that took place at that wedding had noting at all to do with the age of the people getting married...

    By 18 you are legally deemed to be an adult-personally, I would raise the age of marriage to 21, but you have to draw the line somewhere. The latest research suggests young minds are still developing as late as 25 years of age:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194

    As for girls pushing prams around 16/17, you are right in that there are an awful lot of young Mothers. Kids having kids is a disastrous situation. And that's also something that we should be working on to reduce, along with child marriages.


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    #25
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Shenshen wrote: »
    It's a sensible suggestion, but why do people in this thread focus on the girls so much? I understand the boys aren't much older in these situations.

    I guess it's after seeing some of those traveller shows and hearing reports from traveller girls in ireland in documentaries etc. The general gist is that they're never allowed out alone, encouraged to leave school asap, instructed that their lives are about staying home and cooking and cleaning and nothing else, while the lads can do what they want. Jaysus in one episode of those wedding shows the girl was brought to vegas but left alone in the hotel room cleaning while the boyfriend was off in topless bars! Then when she wasn't impressed, the mother's main concern was "how will we get him to marry her now?"
    So I guess I feel for them in that respect. Maybe because I'm a girl as well.
    If they want to stay home and cook and clean that's not an issue, but I think they should be allowed instead of discouraged to finish their education first and have a choice
    Even that article about the wedding shooting had the priest saying "they wanted to get this girl married asap". Not that she wanted to ...


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    #26
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I guess it's after seeing some of those traveller shows and hearing reports from traveller girls in ireland in documentaries etc. The general gist is that they're never allowed out alone, encouraged to leave school asap, instructed that their lives are about staying home and cooking and cleaning and nothing else, while the lads can do what they want. Jaysus in one episode of those wedding shows the girl was brought to vegas but left alone in the hotel room cleaning while the boyfriend was off in topless bars! Then when she wasn't impressed, the mother's main concern was "how will we get him to marry her now?"
    So I guess I feel for them in that respect. Maybe because I'm a girl as well.
    If they want to stay home and cook and clean that's not an issue, but I think they should be allowed instead of discouraged to finish their education first and have a choice
    Even that article about the wedding shooting had the priest saying "they wanted to get this girl married asap". Not that she wanted to ...

    So it's not so much about the age, and more about the imbalanced social roles, disadvantaging the girls?
    I would agree that that certainly is an issue that would need tackling. I'm always amazed how such attitudes still can prevail in this day and age, in the Western world. But I think the issue of age of marriage still concerns both genders.


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    #27
    Right Turn Clyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    Boring username wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/end-option-to-marry-at-16-in-the-north-urges-pavee-point-30990741.html

    A rare nugget of common sense from Mr. Collins, and one I would actually agree with. This culture of child brides is something that needs to be demolished, and I hope the government and church move swiftly to outlaw this barbaric practise.

    You compliment him on speaking common sense, and then you proceed to talk directly out of your arse. I don't condone this situation, but it's not a 'barbaric practice'. FGM is barbaric. Non-essential circumcision is barbaric. There's plenty of other issues more worthy of your muscular vocabulary.


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    #28
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Shenshen wrote: »
    So it's not so much about the age, and more about the imbalanced social roles, disadvantaging the girls?
    I would agree that that certainly is an issue that would need tackling. I'm always amazed how such attitudes still can prevail in this day and age, in the Western world. But I think the issue of age of marriage still concerns both genders.

    No it does - certainly
    Yeah, I guess the thing about the age is that when they're younger they're even less likely to protest or have had much experience in anything to know any different, you know?


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    #29
    Sir Gallagher
    Registered Users Posts: 6,836 ✭✭✭Sir Gallagher


    excuse_me wrote: »
    collins is an apologist ( and a tax payer funded one at that ) for rampant criminality and dysfunctionality within the traveller community

    It's a fairly sensitive position he's in, all im saying is that i emphatise with how he operates. He's in a position which demands trust and respect amongst travellers, he'd be soon out on his arse if he was condemning the community week in week out. Also, maybe he wants to promote the postive aspects of traveller life as we all know the negative.

    The situation amongst travellers seems to be getting worse at the moment, this materialistic obsession which has came about in recent times in no short part due to awful programs like " Big Fat gypsy wedding" has crime rates shooting up i believe. I'm sure Collins and likeminded travellers are extremely frustrated and saddened by this, so in that respect i feel for them.


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    #30
    excuse_me
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11 ✭excuse_me


    Sir Gallagher wrote: »
    It's a fairly sensitive position he's in, all im saying is that i emphatise with how he operates. He's in a position which demands trust and respect amongst travellers, he'd be soon out on his arse if he was condemning the community week in week out. Also, maybe he wants to promote the postive aspects of traveller life as we all know the negative.

    The situation amongst travellers seems to be getting worse at the moment, this materialistic obsession which has came about in recent times in no short part due to awful programs like " Big Fat gypsy wedding" has crime rates shooting up i believe. I'm sure Collins and likeminded travellers are extremely frustrated and saddened by this, so in that respect i feel for them.

    which positive aspects of traveller life are you referring to ?


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    #31
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Who really gives a **** what the church says. Marriage is defined by the state and that's the age limits you stick to.


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