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Creating a new religion

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  • 27-01-2015 11:37pm
    #1
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭


    Out of curiosity, could one conceivably create a new religion in this country, state that something that is quite commonplace is extremely blasphemous to this new religion and then use the blasphemy laws to punish people who have offended our followers?


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    #2
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Everyone has to think Hawaiian pizzas are truly delicious. Anyone saying otherwise shall be smoted with jaffa cakes.


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    #3
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    It will just be a cult until it lasts a few hundred years. At that point any attempt to prevent you from killing people who believe pineapple belongs on a pizza is oppression from the liberals.

    You also need a very vague book.


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    #4
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, could one conceivably create a new religion in this country, state that something that is quite commonplace is extremely blasphemous to this new religion and then use the blasphemy laws to punish people who have offended our followers?
    Already been tried, kind of:

    http://www.blasphemy.ie/2009/05/26/join-the-church-of-dermotology/


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    #5
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Nobodies actually been prosecuted under the blasphemy law have they?

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #6
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    At what point does an organisation become a religion that could take advantage of our blasphemy laws?

    Let's say I come up with a religion called Scatholicism and one of the main tenets of our faith is that everything that comes from us nourishes us - our poo becomes the fertilizer that feeds the plants we eat - so making jokey farting noises or jokes about manure are extraordinarily blasphemous to our religion. How do I then become a religion? Is it based on membership? Do I have to have a book outlining all the various beliefs? How do I swing it?


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    #7
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    No. 1 One Direction Fan wrote: »
    Nobodies actually been prosecuted under the blasphemy law have they?

    No, it's a completely unworkable law. Just wondering was there a way to really highlight the uselessness of it.


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    #8
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    robindch wrote: »
    Already been tried, kind of:

    http://www.blasphemy.ie/2009/05/26/join-the-church-of-dermotology/

    I can't imagine a facebook page with four members is going to swing it...


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    #9
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    I can't imagine a facebook page with four members is going to swing it...
    Last time I checked, Atheist Ireland had more than four members.


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    #10
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    robindch wrote: »
    Last time I checked, Atheist Ireland had more than four members.

    I was talking about the page for the church of dermatology


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    #11
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    I was talking about the page for the church of dermatology
    AI set up the Church of Dermotology, but it was never prosecuted for offending religious sensibilities - which was a bit of a pity.


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    #12
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    No. 1 One Direction Fan wrote: »
    Nobodies actually been prosecuted under the blasphemy law have they?

    The Irish Independent spent some time in the Supreme Court over some cartoons printed during the divorce referendum debate but it ruled that the Constitution gave no definition of blasphemy and didn't prosecute.

    Then in 2009, Dermot Ahern's Defamation Act passed through the Dáil which clearly defined blasphemy and its punishment (max €25,000). I don't think anyone has been prosecuted since then but it's very much possible to do it now.


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    #13
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭swampgas


    No. 1 One Direction Fan wrote: »
    Nobodies actually been prosecuted under the blasphemy law have they?

    In my opinion the real damage caused by the Irish blasphemy legislation is not the risk of Irish prosecutions, but the way it's used by oppressive regimes (especially in the middle east) to defend their own much harsher blasphemy laws.

    When criticised by human rights organisations or western governments, they can point to Ireland say "See - western democracies like Ireland have blasphemy laws too".


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    #14
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,141 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Nim wrote: »
    Then in 2009, Dermot Ahern's Defamation Act passed through the Dáil which clearly defined blasphemy and its punishment (max €25,000). I don't think anyone has been prosecuted since then but it's very much possible to do it now.
    Nobody has been prosecuted for blasphemy in Ireland since 1855 and, far from the 2009 law making prosecution "very much possible", it has been carefully drafted to make a blasphemy prosecution even less likely that it was before 2009.

    Attempts to protest against this law by getting yourself, or anyone else, prosecuted are pissing into the wind, frankly. Nobody is going to be prosecuted under this law, ever, for anything. It may be a disgraceful law but if you want to protest against it effectively you're going to have to find another protest method.


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    #15
    Zack Morris
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Zack Morris


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    At what point does an organisation become a religion that could take advantage of our blasphemy laws?

    Historically, cults became religions when they convert a person of power, like a king or an emperor. The king/emperor will then designate that cult as the state religion and make conditions for people of other faiths undesirable.

    Nowadays, it all about converting famous people, like the way the Church of Scientology targets celebrities.
    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Let's say I come up with a religion called Scatholicism and one of the main tenets of our faith is that everything that comes from us nourishes us - our poo becomes the fertilizer that feeds the plants we eat - so making jokey farting noises or jokes about manure are extraordinarily blasphemous to our religion. How do I then become a religion? Is it based on membership? Do I have to have a book outlining all the various beliefs? How do I swing it?

    The law is unenforceable.


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    #16
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Nobody has been prosecuted for blasphemy in Ireland since 1855 and, far from the 2009 law making prosecution "very much possible", it has been carefully drafted to make a blasphemy prosecution even less likely that it was before 2009.

    Attempts to protest against this law by getting yourself, or anyone else, prosecuted are pissing into the wind, frankly. Nobody is going to be prosecuted under this law, ever, for anything. It may be a disgraceful law but if you want to protest against it effectively you're going to have to find another protest method.

    The point is that a blasphemy prosecution should be impossible because there should be no law which even considers the possibility. Any more than there should be a law which makes it against the law to make fun of Fiana Fail. Or the Muppet Show.


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    #17
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,141 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    obplayer wrote: »
    The point is that a blasphemy prosecution should be impossible because there should be no law which even considers the possibility. Any more than there should be a law which makes it against the law to make fun of Fiana Fail. Or the Muppet Show.
    Sure. I wouldn't disagree. But I think protesting agains the law on the basis that a prosecution might realistically happen is misconceived, because (a) it isn't true, and (b) when it becomes apparent that it isn't true, the protest becomes counter-productive.

    My position is that, even granted that there will never be a prosecution under this law, it's still a bad law, for reasons of principle. But we should oppose it for those reasons of principle, and not on the basis of fears of prosecution which are manufactured, and possibly even dishonest.


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    #18
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Zack Morris wrote: »
    Historically, cults became religions when they convert a person of power, like a king or an emperor. The king/emperor will then designate that cult as the state religion and make conditions for people of other faiths undesirable.

    Nowadays, it all about converting famous people, like the way the Church of Scientology targets celebrities.

    The law is unenforceable.

    I know the law is unenforceable. I was coming at it from the point of view of highlighting how ridiculous the law is especially this part:
    (2) For the purposes of this section, a person publishes or utters blasphemous matter if—

    (a) he or she publishes or utters matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion.

    Because no religion is named, how is a religion defined in this instance?


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    #19
    username000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭username000


    lazygal wrote: »
    Everyone has to think Hawaiian pizzas are truly delicious. Anyone saying otherwise shall be smoted with jaffa cakes.

    This just doesnt do it for me.

    Can we have it that everyone has to think that Hawaiian pizzas that rise from the oven on the 3 Tuesday of each month are delicious?

    And can the unbelievers be smoted by Jaffa Angels?


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    #20
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    username000 wrote: »
    This just doesnt do it for me.

    Can we have it that everyone has to think that Hawaiian pizzas that rise from the oven on the 3 Tuesday of each month are delicious?

    And can the unbelievers be smoted by Jaffa Angels?

    NO! I HAVE LAID DOWN THE DOCTRINE. NO CHANGES.


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    #21
    username000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭username000


    lazygal wrote: »
    NO! I HAVE LAID DOWN THE DOCTRINE. NO CHANGES.

    Youre a false prophet!


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    #22
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    username000 wrote: »
    Youre a false prophet!

    Pff you have no proof of that.


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    #23
    username000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭username000


    lazygal wrote: »
    Pff you have no proof of that.

    Im creating a splinter group, the Pizza Appearists must flock to me!


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    #24
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    username000 wrote: »
    Im creating a splinter group, the Pizza Appearists must flock to me!

    I shall hold a Council of Pizza and make some of the rules more appealing in the hope that people will stick with me.


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    #25
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Friends of mine set up The Holy Order of The Lemon once. Don't think it took off in a big way, but one of the High Priests had been looking into setting up his own cult for years, with a view to it becoming a religion given time. As I recall, you officially needed a certain number of dedicated followers - definitely under 100.


    http://www.hellshaw.com/lemon/

    I couldn't get behind the Lemon, personally. I will however take huge offence at blaspheming against the Hawaiian pizza, so I'm with you Lazygal. I shall write the book of Shrap, to be included in all future publications of the gospel according to Lazygal. Are we good to go?


    NB. May need more followers.


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    #26
    username000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭username000


    Jaffa Angels on the way to both of you!


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    #27
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    1.Thou shalt not smite the Jaffa cake upon thy neighbour, yea tho they are chewy goodness.
    2.Thou shalt not worship false pizza's tho they be similarly risen. The name of the one true pizza is Hawaiian and none may speak it's name in vain.


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    #28
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Hawaiian Pizza? I knew you were all atheists. I didn't know you were all weirdos with mangled taste-buds as well…


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    #29
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Shrap wrote: »
    Friends of mine set up The Holy Order of The Lemon once. Don't think it took off in a big way, but one of the High Priests had been looking into setting up his own cult for years, with a view to it becoming a religion given time. As I recall, you officially needed a certain number of dedicated followers - definitely under 100.


    http://www.hellshaw.com/lemon/

    I couldn't get behind the Lemon, personally. I will however take huge offence at blaspheming against the Hawaiian pizza, so I'm with you Lazygal. I shall write the book of Shrap, to be included in all future publications of the gospel according to Lazygal. Are we good to go?


    NB. May need more followers.
    Awesome. As the one true prophet of pizza (OTPP) I suggest the gospel be full of hard to interpret and vague instructions on how to get into the eternal life we'll be offering, along with equally hard to interpret and vague contradictions which people can refer to as myths, but which others will claim are completely true.


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    #30
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    lazygal wrote: »
    Awesome. As the one true prophet of pizza (OTPP) I suggest the gospel be full of hard to interpret and vague instructions on how to get into the eternal life we'll be offering, along with equally hard to interpret and vague contradictions which people can refer to as myths, but which others will claim are completely true.

    Awesome is the word. I shall start by calling on the Holy Trinity of the Pineapple, the Ham and the Base for their Most Holy input. Might I suggest the acronym TOPPING for your good self? (True and Only Pizza Prophet In Nomine Gloria) - Bit mangled, but as you rightly say, we can be as contradictory as we like. It's up to the followers to follow the scripture to the letter. Not our problem if it's a bit vague....


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    #31
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,516 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    lazygal wrote: »
    NO! I HAVE LAID DOWN THE DOCTRINE. NO CHANGES.
    you really have no idea about how religion works.


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