U-21 Hurling Championship 2014

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

this stuff comes up endlessly and is utterly tiresome.

if you create an open draw you remove the munster final and the leinster final.
if that was the case clare would be celebrating and dublin and limerick would be doing what exactly?

Thats precisely the point!!! its the only solution to having a fair competition. Im sick of hearing all about preserving the famous munster championship....but one province cannot be allowed dictate the hurling championship and the greater good of hurling. Galway or Antrim have no affiliation to Leinster. Its not until next year as to when Galway can "try" arrange a home and away agreement with other counties in order to stage matches. It was to enable Leinster be more competitive they were brought into the province aswell!! Just like football, the provincial championships have had their day and it is time a new fairer system for all the championships - minor, u21 and intermediate included is introduced.

At the end of the day, what do players treasure more - an all ireland medal or a provincial medal. I know if i was a senior intercounty hurler which one i would be choosing!

donnem33 wrote: »

Thats precisely the point!!! its the only solution to having a fair competition. Im sick of hearing all about preserving the famous munster championship....but one province cannot be allowed dictate the hurling championship and the greater good of hurling. Galway or Antrim have no affiliation to Leinster. Its not until next year as to when Galway can "try" arrange a home and away agreement with other counties in order to stage matches. It was to enable Leinster be more competitive they were brought into the province aswell!! Just like football, the provincial championships have had their day and it is time a new fairer system for all the championships - minor, u21 and intermediate included is introduced.

At the end of the day, what do players treasure more - an all ireland medal or a provincial medal. I know if i was a senior intercounty hurler which one i would be choosing!

what a silly response.
you are clearly missing the point. without the existance of the munster and leinster championship players like ciaran carey , gary kirby, tony browne, ken mcgrath, john mullane, dan shanahan declan ruth Daragh ryan and so on would have nothing to show for their careers. Its quite possible that the same thing might happen to some of the older Dublin and Galway players in the next couple of years.
I wasn`t aware that senior intercounty players got to choose the outcome of their medal haul but you can bet those lads and many more like them wouldnt give up the provincial medals they have and the great joy they experienced in the moments and days after those wins for anything

donnem33 wrote: »

Im just making the point its the all ireland medal which players crave more than just a provincial. Winning leinster in 2012 was great for galway, it was unique. but it would mean far more to, say for example, a westmeath hurler, as they are from that particular province. Players start out every year to win the all ireland and if they win a provincial along the way, that's an added bonus.

The system is flawed at the moment. Where there is so little between many of the top teams, an open draw champions league format would add even more excitement to the game in addition to being a more fair system and allow home and away games. Galway and Antrim joined the leinster championship in 2009, yet only 1 game, and that has been this year, has been played in either county. how is that fair?

Anyways, this thread is about u21 not senior. I was illustrating that the u21 championship is very unbalanced the way galway and antrim get a bye into the semi finals. Sure they could join possibly join leinster, but i believe they would meet strong resistence from some of the other leinster counties.

Just highlighted a few points. On first point. Not really. Some counties will aim just to get provincial title as that's a significant win for most counties and anything after is a real big bonus. For other counties All Irelands are main aim every year.
Yes the system is flawed but do we need home and away games for under 21? Why increase game load unnecessarily for u21 grade?
System is unbalanced with Galway/Antrim getting bye into semis. Perhaps they enter Leinster and winners of Leinster/Munster face off in final??

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

You could argue it that way or you could equally argue that when the business end of the game arrived clare outscored kilkenny by 1 10 to 4 points one point from play and three frees.
a good few of them who looked like extremely good players when part of the senior panel and surrounded by really serious intercounty lads had their confidence badly undermined by the combination of the 7 - 23 to 1 - 16 defeat down in templetouhy allied to the annihilation in the second half in the final when they had to step up on their own. I was at that game and both teams had ten or more of the players who played in the all ireland under 21 final. clares absentees included patrick o`connor and conor mcgrath
you can talk about refs and all the rest of it for 2013 but the fact is wexford won the match and then lost to antrim.
at minor level after the win in 2010 where the people around the team lost the run of themselves a bit in relation to their prospects maybe kilkenny were quite poor in 11 and 12 and last year lost to wexford in nolan park though they did recover to give waterford a decent game in the semi.

the hidings dished out by dublin and wexford in nolan park to kilkennys 21`s and minors would tend to fit in to a narrative of some decline surely

Whats this 7-23 to 1-16 hammering you speak of? Really lets call a spade a spade here, I was at that U21 Final in Thurles. Personally I think that was as good a Kilkenny U21 Team as you could get, serious talent on board I have said that ever since we lost that night and my claims are only proving themselves now. It was every bit as good as the Clare team on paper. We got the likes of Walter Walsh, Padraig Walsh, Brian Kennedy, Richie Doyle, Ger Aylward(Both Injured this Year. Doyle also injured much of last year but both very classy operators, Doyle in particular), and John Power to name a few. Kevin Kelly is another on that team and was also U21 this year injured V Wexford the other night who will get his chance in the next year or 2 with the Seniors, a very talented young hurler. Geoff Brennan also was on that team, he scored 3 pts V Galway in League so that was as talented a Kilkenny team we have had. So thats 8 lads who currently form the Senior team and will do for the next few years. But frankly SavannahKat I do not agree with you in admitting that we got close to Clare in that Final. I was at the match we didnt perform throughout the whole match, personally I would probably put that down to the manner in which we got to the final, blitzing all before us like Wexford and Laois in leinster and Galway in the All Ireland Semi Final. We were ahead at half time without performing all that well before Clare just stormed back and honestly we couldnt handle it, lads were not used to being in this situation and no one stepped up. I do hold the opinion that this 2012 KK U21 Team had the talent to beat Clare, we just did not perform especially in the 2nd half. If I can remember correctly, Clares half back fairly sure it was Seadna Morey played like a man possessed in that half, was unbelievable and was everywhere in that 2nd period.

But those Clare lads have developed and won a Senior All Ireland since then whilst our lads are only getting their chance to shine now. Youngsters in Kilkenny do very much have the path to the Senior team blocked I have to say.

I do think we were complacent against Wexford in 2013 that was a good team but they did sort of lose the run of themselves after Minor a bit I do think. We could have beaten Wexford that night but we didnt step up there either when the game was there for the taking

I also agree with you in relation to the Minor Team we had last year, very poor in the defeat to Wexford but we did recover and possibly could have beaten Waterford with what was an average team but certainly there is a decline I do agree completely. I have noticed something myself that when comparing our own underage teams to others like Dublin, Clare etc, I have found that there is just that something missing which I cant put my finger on. We lost to Dublin in Nowlan Park Minor this year with before the match was a team alongside Limerick, favourites for the Minor All Ireland this year. We scored 3 pts, although the lads only had 2 training sessions together before the match but 3 points is unacceptable but I have the feeling that there is something missing, our lads are just lacking something and have been at underage Minor especially for a few years now

savannahkat wrote: »

It would you all a lot of good to read http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/little-things-mean-a-lot-271324.html

I do agree with Martin Fogarty but only to a certain extent, certain things can tip the scales but there are cracks there at underage that cant be ignored. All the excuses in the world cant explain 3 pts we scored against Dublin, yes it may have affected the performance but despite that how can you explain 3 pts from a Kilkenny team. There is complacency there without a shadow of a doubt and I dont believe we have the right people in charge of the teams at underage level either

bruschi wrote: »

look out for Garett Foley, Conor Devitt and Kevin Foley on the Wexford side who have been on the fringes of the senior panel but who have been excellent up through underage and IMO will be the next to make the senior team.

Don't forget Liam Ryan from fine KK stock. All's forgiven Liam when you want to return home.

Jesus, Offaly are beyond terrible. I can't believe how badly they have fallen back, 13 points down at half time after playing with a man extra for the vast majority of it. They're looking at a 30 point beating if Wexford keep it going.

dastardly00 wrote: »

Other half time scores:

Waterford 2-8 Clare 2-2
Westmeath 0-9 Dublin 1-6

Shock on the cards with the 3 in a row?

Also Westmeath look to be building on their Carlow win.

Which begs the question as to why they'd show the Offaly game.

What's the score in the Dublin game lads?

thunderthing wrote: »

What's the score in the Dublin game lads?

Dublin up by a point, 2-7 to 0-12 50mins gone

Dublin beat Westmeath by a point, 2-8 to 13 points.

Westmeath had a late penalty saved.

Paully D wrote: »

Offaly's full back sums them up to be honest. He doesn't look in any sort of condition to be able to play a competitive game of hurling. Are things really that bad for them that they have to pick players who are clearly out of shape?

I heard he's on the senior panel. This is after all the county of Shane Lowery and Daithi Regan.