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Cant house train dog...

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  • 31-12-2013 10:21am
    #1
    BillyBoy13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭


    Im asking this for a friend.

    She got a new dog recently. The vet had to age him and reckons hes about 1-2 years old.

    Turns out the last owner was never able to house train him which he neglected to say before he handed over and left the country.

    Now she has this dog for about 6 weeks at this stage and she cant for the life of her house train him. She has house trained young puppies in the past and she has never had an issue. She thinks this dog is just set in his ways and that's that.

    Any suggestions?


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    #2
    Toulouse
    Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Toulouse


    How is she training him?

    Is the dog neutered?

    Is it a Bichon?

    What is she using to clean up after he goes in the house? Is it pee and poo or just one?


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    #3
    tk123
    Registered Users Posts: 14,024 ✭✭✭✭tk123


    What method is she using for training him atm? Also has he been vet checked to rule out any issues?


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    #4
    BillyBoy13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭BillyBoy13


    Toulouse wrote: »
    How is she training him?

    Is the dog neutered?

    Is it a Bichon?

    What is she using to clean up after he goes in the house? Is it pee and poo or just one?

    I'll have to double check, but I think she would show him the mess, give out to him and then put him into the garden for 20 minutes.

    He knows he's doing wrong, when he does it all she has to do is stand beside it and call him and apparently he looks up at her very sorry and wont look at the mess hes made.

    No hes not neutered? Would that make any odds?

    And nope hes not a bichon. I feel like a nazi for saying this but hes not a "purebred"... he'd be a mix of jack russel and maybe some kind of terrier.


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    #5
    BillyBoy13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭BillyBoy13


    tk123 wrote: »
    Also has he been vet checked to rule out any issues?

    Well the vet checked him before she got him. It was the vet that aged him. So I would assume that there's nothing medically wrong with the dog...


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    #6
    Toulouse
    Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Toulouse


    BillyBoy13 wrote: »
    I'll have to double check, but I think she would show him the mess, give out to him and then put him into the garden for 20 minutes.

    He knows he's doing wrong, when he does it all she has to do is stand beside it and call him and apparently he looks up at her very sorry and wont look at the mess hes made.

    No hes not neutered? Would that make any odds?

    And nope hes not a bichon. I feel like a nazi for saying this but hes not a "purebred"... he'd be a mix of jack russel and maybe some kind of terrier.

    There's your problem then, she hasn't told him where he's supposed to go. Dogs don't associate the mess on the floor with something they've done and an angry owner. He's not looking sorry for what he's done, he's just very confused by the owner shouting at him. She shouldn't give out to him, he'll just find somewhere to go where she can't see.

    She needs to go outside with him and when he goes she should give him lots and lots of praise. So first thing in the morning, after food, after sleep - outside with them both (no putting him out by himself) and when he goes, lots of praise. When he goes out on his walk, again lots of praise. Dogs usually have some kind of tell - sniffing, circling, etc. so she needs to learn his and look out for it.

    If he goes in the house she should call herself over to the mess, point at it and give herself a good talking to, she wasn't watching him closely enough. She should clean it up with a solution of biological washing powder to get rid of the smell and start again.

    Neutering can help with marking in the house but this is not the issue here as she just hasn't trained him. Neutering is however also the responsible thing to do so she should think about it.

    Terriers are pretty smart, he'll pick it up very shortly if she follows what I've said and keeps doing it.


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    #7
    looking_around
    Registered Users Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    I second Toulose

    I'm currently house training a JR. Terrier. She was never house trained and has no sense of holding it.

    Because I can't keep a close eye on her.(have locked to one room due to the other pets) so.
    Lined half the room with newspaper, cheered when she used the newspaper, .. ignored her/cleaned up when she didn't.
    Within two days she started using the newspaper side.
    I've noticed she has no sense of "holding it", so I'm not worried of teaching her that yet.

    I've now made the newspaper section small, and she goes there consistently. Or to any newspaper thats on the ground, in any room XD. (Took her 4 days tops, to figure this out.)

    The idea then will be to remove the newspaper during the day, and check on her/let her out often to then praise when she's out.

    But praising and patience is the key.
    Don't smack them, this will just scare them. And a 20minute time out is too long. Imagine putting a kid on naughty chair for 20 minutes? :O . They'd forget why they're there XD


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    #8
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,727 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    BillyBoy13 wrote: »
    I'll have to double check, but I think she would show him the mess, give out to him and then put him into the garden for 20 minutes.

    Just to reiterate OP, this is a complete waste of time, and really unfair to the dog. Dogs are absolutely here-and-now animals, they cannot make any connection with something that happened more than a few seconds ago as being related to them or their actions. So, the 20 minute visit to the garden will do nothing at all to teach the dog about toilet training, but it will make him confused as to why his owner randomly decided to put him outside.
    For the record, when we do put a dog out of the room for more appropriate misbehaviours, it should only be for 30 seconds to 1 minute: long, long time-outs like this have been proven to be counter-productive and potentially damaging.
    He knows he's doing wrong, when he does it all she has to do is stand beside it and call him and apparently he looks up at her very sorry and wont look at the mess hes made.

    Dogs use a number of behaviours, postures and expressions to communicate that they mean no harm, and to try to calm an angry dog or person down: they're called, appropriately, calming signals. To the uninitiated, these expressions can look like guilt, but this is a misinterpretation. Dogs don't do guilt. They do not know they've done wrong, it is unfair to have this sort of expectation from an animal, and many a dog suffers because of this misinterpretation.
    The expressions the dog is using is purely to try to calm down his randomly angry owner. As explained above, he has no idea whatsoever that the puddle on the floor is anything to do with him, so to the dog, his owner is pointing at a random puddle (or pile of poop), and talking angrily to him... but he has no idea why.. so in other words, the dog is utterly confused as to why his owner is randomly angry.
    This causes anxiety in the dog, and anxiety causes more peeing and pooping... so again, a counter-productive move on the part of the owner.

    There is no substitute for "error-free learning", or teaching the dog to do things in a way that closely mimics real life, which means no newspaper, no pee pads, no deliberately allowing the dog to toilet inside at all.
    There is also no substitute for using rewarding food treats to tip the odds in the owner's favour that the dog will want to repeat whatever it is he gets rewarded for.
    So, every hour, she should go out to the garden with him, armed with a few delicious treats. She should stand quietly with him, doing or saying nothing. As soon as he starts going, she should coo gently at him (over-enthusiasm at this delicate stage could make him stop in mid-flow). The second he stops going, then she should have a party with him, congratulating him, petting him, and giving him a treat or two. She should follow this up by bringing him back inside for a cuddle or a play.
    Bringing him back inside once he's empty will teach him that he doesn't get to go back in until the bladder or bowel is empty. Once he has emptied, he's safe to have inside for another hour or so. However, if an hour passes and he's in a deep sleep, leave him be, and bring him out as soon as he wakes up.
    On that note, dogs are most likely to want to go after waking up, after a meal, and a few more times in between. Routine is vital, and any mistakes he makes in the house are not his fault, and he should not, ever be punished for them. If the owner happens to catch him in the act, and ONLY if he's actually in the act, in the house, she can say "ah ah" and bring him straight out, without getting into a tizz about it.
    Give me an adult dog to toilet train over a pup any day... they're far easier to train. But this owner must bear in mind that punishing an animal for toileting is really risky... punishing an animal for something even seconds after they've done it is a waste of time and quite damaging to the dog/owner bond and the training process itself. Routine, routine, routine... give the dog every chance to get it right!


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    #9
    mistress_gi
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭mistress_gi


    The way we did it was, out the door every 3 hours wait for dog to pee; lots of praise when he went outside.
    When accidents happened inside, immediately take him out, lots of praise if he went outside.
    Clean up the mess without any fuss.
    We increased the time between going to 4 hours after 5 days, and increase up to 8 hours, in 1 hour increments, until he got the concept :)
    Lots of work and consistency needed s well as a good alarm clock for those middle of the night garden visits! But it works and it lasts :)


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