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Did Israel use a mini Nuke in Syria on 4th/5th May 2013?

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  • 30-05-2013 10:08pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭


    I came across a video a few days ago that some believe is a tactical/mini nuke explosion in Syria carried out by Israel, supposedly in response to the Syrian navy sinking an Isreali nuclear submarine off the coast of Syria.



    This video shows a large explosion and lightening in the mushroom cloud, it's hard to say as the explosion happens behind a mountain.

    Did Syria Sink an Israeli Submarine?
    A story out of Syria claiming it sunk a German built nuclear armed submarine operated by the government of Israel has not only been partially confirmed, but that a fully confirmed nuclear attack on Syria is now believed to have been Israeli retaliation for that sinking.
    It is reported that the Israeli Dolphin submarine, a German built diesel/electric craft, was attacked and sunk by a Syrian Navy torpedo boat at 2:30 AM, May 2, 2013 while at a depth of 150 meters. Prior to the sinking, a ship operated by Germany’s intelligence services had been in the area.
    After the reported, or should we say “unreported” sinking of the Israeli submarine and the equally “unreported” nuclear attack on Syria, a large contingent of Russian naval vessels moved into area.
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/25/did-syria-sink-an-israeli-submarine/

    Maybe this and the US threat of a no fly zone over Syria prompted Russia to ship it's advanced S-300 missile system to Syria despite calls for it not to, the S-300 would make the no fly zone a lot harder to implement.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/syria-has-received-russian-missile-shipment-assad-1.1411277

    Syria's new anti-aircraft missiles will be game-changing, say defence analysts
    He described the system as formidable and respected by western military planners: "If your plan is to waltz into Syrian airspace and start bombing things this is a big wrinkle."
    Hewson said he expected the Russians to supply military advisers who would work closely with their Syrian counterparts and train them how to use the system: "There is a big danger that if you blow the SA-300 up you will kill a lot of Russians. I don't think the Israelis want to do that. This is Russia operating at a big international level and saying: 'Assad is still our guy and we stand beside him.'"
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/30/syria-anti-aircraft-missile-system

    There's so much going on in Syria lately, it has the potential to start WW3, while the US and others traffic in foreign Al Qaeda fighters they have the cheek to whinge about Hezbollah fighting alongside the Syrian army and it seem's the FSA/Al Qaeda ain't too happy either.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Here's another angle of it. To me it appears to a weapons storage explosion. You can see several ignitions and small explosions at the central area of the large explosion. It doesn't look like a nuke at all. Any large explosion produces a mushroom cloud.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    Is there any other reason to believe it's a nuclear device other than the fact that it created a mushroom cloud (which is not a good reason to believe it's a nuclear device BTW)?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 67 ✭✭Colgem


    If there was signs of radiation in the atmosphere any country in the region could tell it was a nuclear explosion.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Is there any other reason to believe it's a nuclear device other than the fact that it created a mushroom cloud (which is not a good reason to believe it's a nuclear device BTW)?

    I think your getting confused with a nuclear bomb and a mini nuke, tactical bunker busters are "mini nukes" and as this next artical from 2001 says it's hard to differenciate between a mini nuke and a conventional weapon.

    mininuke2-5.gif

    Critics argue that adding low-yield warheads to the world's nuclear inventory simply makes their eventual use more likely. In fact, a 1994 law currently prohibits the nuclear laboratories from undertaking research and development that could lead to a precision nuclear weapon of less than 5 kilotons (KT), because "low-yield nuclear weapons blur the distinction between nuclear and conventional war."
    http://www.fas.org/faspir/2001/v54n1/weapons.htm

    That 1994 law has since been done away with by the US under GW Bush, which now allows mini nukes to be used in conventional warfare.

    Another article on the subject:

    From a practical standpoint, the advantage of a small nuclear bomb is that it can pack so much explosive force into such a small space. (See How Nuclear Bombs Work for details.) The B61-11 can carry a nuclear charge with anywhere between a 1-kiloton (1,000 tons of TNT) and a 300-kiloton yield. For comparison, the bomb used on Hiroshima had a yield of approximately 15 kilotons. The shock wave from such an intense underground explosion would cause damage deep in the earth and would presumably destroy even the most well-fortified bunker.
    http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster3.htm

    Another reason is the smell of gas in the air reported after the strike, people claiming it was like an earthquake, lightening in the cloud a few moments after the huge blast and the fact that the said target was a research facility which more than likely would have underground fortified bunkers.

    Colgem wrote: »
    If there was signs of radiation in the atmosphere any country in the region could tell it was a nuclear explosion.

    Most conventional weapons, even bullets used now by Israel and the US contain depleted uranium (DU), which is radioactive, most of Iraq is now a nuclear wasteland, the US used 100's or even 1000''s of tons of it in Iraq

    In a three-week period of conflict in Iraq during 2003 it was estimated that over 1000 tons of depleted uranium munitions were used.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

    EDIT:
    Striking evidence of the use of American EPW (Earth Penetrating Weapons) nuclear weapons in Syria has come to light. Experts say the proof is irrefutable.

    Submitted for analysis, the footage was compared with tests of the 37,000-pound MOB (Massive Ordnance Penetrator), designed by Boeing to be used against Iran’s underground facilities. There was no similarity whatsoever noted between the Syrian “event” and a conventional “bunker buster” including the GBU 57, the largest conventional weapon every to be used.

    More Proof
    Colonel James Hanke, former Defense Attaché and Liaison between the Pentagon and Netanyahu’s government , reviewed the footage.
    He indicated that the GBU 57 is considered too high a risk for use because of its danger to the earth’s crust.

    The Syrian/African fault line spreads into Israel. Were it to be subjected to this kind of explosive power, the threat of an earthquake doing significant damage in Israel is a reality. The nuclear bunker busters have far less penetrating power and, I am not saying that this was a nuclear device, not until more evidence is in, but the ‘event profile’ shows striking similarities.

    The other problem with the GBU 57 is delivery. Only two aircraft are capable of delivering this weapon, the B-52 and B-2 Stealth Bomber. Israel does not have these aircraft.

    http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/05/10/302772/was-syria-nuked/


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    If Israel continue on their path of threatening countries in the region with their nukes any idiot without nuclear weapons could use Israels own nuclear facilities to nuke them.

    israel_facilities.gif

    A few hundred missiles aimed at the right spot's could effectively wipe Israel off the map, it would be disasterous for all involved and I hope it never happens, but very possible, Israel and surrounding area's might not be inhabital for a few thousand years, then the "Samson option" would surely be used, a sad day for humanity, but the way things are going, if Israel don't get off their high horse, very possible......


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    stuar wrote: »
    I think your getting confused with a nuclear bomb and a mini nuke, tactical bunker busters are "mini nukes" and as this next artical from 2001 says it's hard to differenciate between a mini nuke and a conventional weapon.

    None of your post has any relevance to what I posted, so I wonder why you quoted me?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    stuar wrote: »
    If Israel continue on their path of threatening countries in the region with their nukes any idiot without nuclear weapons could use Israels own nuclear facilities to nuke them.

    israel_facilities.gif

    A few hundred missiles aimed at the right spot's could effectively wipe Israel off the map, it would be disasterous for all involved and I hope it never happens, but very possible, Israel and surrounding area's might not be inhabital for a few thousand years, then the "Samson option" would surely be used, a sad day for humanity, but the way things are going, if Israel don't get off their high horse, very possible......

    But what about 'Iron Dome' that Israel have.How are the missiles going to strike Israel?.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    BloodBath wrote: »
    Here's another angle of it. To me it appears to a weapons storage explosion. You can see several ignitions and small explosions at the central area of the large explosion. It doesn't look like a nuke at all. Any large explosion produces a mushroom cloud.

    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Is there any other reason to believe it's a nuclear device other than the fact that it created a mushroom cloud (which is not a good reason to believe it's a nuclear device BTW)?

    What is interesting about that video, right at the end of it just as it gets to the 39 second mark from what I can see there are two lightening flashes, one left then one right. I dont know if what we are looking at is an Israeli mini nuke though the explosion appears to have induced lightning. Nuclear explosions are known to induce lightening. Whatever it was that went boom it was big.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    If that's the case surely it would be easy to test the area for enriched uranium traces to prove/disprove it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Im sure it would, Im only adding my thoughts to the thread im neither for or against a mini nuke at this stage though I do know as we can all see that was one massive explosion.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    That's the way to be. Too many close-minded people on this forum on both sides of the fence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 84 ✭✭faustino1


    Whether it was a nuclear device or not, Gordon Duff and elements of Veterans Today are known to be disinformation actors.

    How do I know? I just know based off my own research...since around 2011
    He expressly admitted in 2012 during an interview some of his material is fabricated in order to stay alive . . .



    A lot of disinformation actors regarding middle east foreign policy exist.
    It's really difficult to assert one is or not when almost everyone's afraid to disclose what they really think.

    Duff claims to be victim of this dilemma but I find his disclosure in this clip slightly dubious.

    Obviously, the objective of disinformation is to mix truth and untruth so your target audience are unable to validate what's real or not.

    Another video which goes some way to discrediting Veterans Today is Michael Harris accusing Israel of sponsoring Sandy Hook.



    Harris makes some valid points which he knows his audience will tend to agree with, then completely discredits himself with untruths...classic disinformation actor.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 67 ✭✭Colgem


    Excellent post we should remember to always check our sources in the internet age. Veterans Today. They utilise Jim Fetzer a out and out nutcase.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    None of your post has any relevance to what I posted, so I wonder why you quoted me?

    Here's 2 reasons in my earlier post.

    Another reason is the smell of gas in the air reported after the strike, people claiming it was like an earthquake, lightening in the cloud a few moments after the huge blast and the fact that the said target was a research facility which more than likely would have underground fortified bunkers.

    The Syrian/African fault line spreads into Israel. Were it to be subjected to this kind of explosive power, the threat of an earthquake doing significant damage in Israel is a reality. The nuclear bunker busters have far less penetrating power and, I am not saying that this was a nuclear device, not until more evidence is in, but the ‘event profile’ shows striking similarities.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    But what about 'Iron Dome' that Israel have.How are the missiles going to strike Israel?.

    Ohh yea I forgot about the Iron Dome, the same Iron Dome that can't handle more than 3 missiles at once, the same Iron Dome that Hamas's home made rockets got through on numerous occasions not so long ago.

    Not a very effective Iron Dome was it?, maybe google how 3 or more missiles confuse the Iron Dome.....


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 67 ✭✭Colgem


    stuar wrote: »
    Ohh yea I forgot about the Iron Dome, the same Iron Dome that can't handle more than 3 missiles at once, the same Iron Dome that Hamas's home made rockets got through on numerous occasions not so long ago.

    Not a very effective Iron Dome was it?, maybe google how 3 or more missiles confuse the Iron Dome.....

    The iron dome isn't a nuclear deterrent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 84 ✭✭faustino1


    Colgem wrote: »
    The iron dome isn't a nuclear deterrent.

    Since there's a long history of colonialism in regions of the world, (including the Middle East) would you suspect Israel are being used to further colonial aspirations for the Middle East and the wider world in general?

    I've often wondered if Israel is simply an excuse for the US to remain in the Middle East.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 67 ✭✭Colgem


    faustino1 wrote: »
    Since there's a long history of colonialism in regions of the world, (including the Middle East) would you suspect Israel are being used to further colonial aspirations for the Middle East and the wider world in general?

    I've often wondered if Israel is simply an excuse for the US to remain in the Middle East.

    I think you are now over reaching a tad. While I will agree will some of your assessments, I dont think you can look at the development of the middle east since WW2 and think this is all some sort of US "excuse".


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    Colgem wrote: »
    Excellent post we should remember to always check our sources in the internet age. Veterans Today. They utilise Jim Fetzer a out and out nutcase.

    The story was on lots and lots of sites, theres a site called "Google", try it, you may be surprised and another thing to consider is what is the meaning of this symbol "?", it's in the title.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 84 ✭✭faustino1


    Colgem wrote: »
    I think you are now over reaching a tad. While I will agree will some of your assessments, I dont think you can look at the development of the middle east since WW2 and think this is all some sort of US "excuse".

    There's a consensus among some people that Israel control US foreign policy in the Middle East.

    The reasons cited are literature written by those within the Israeli Lobby of US which also have key positions within the US administrations over the years.

    Despite the fact US, UK and other nations were deeply involved with the Middle East long before Israel was established, some really are convinced hardline Israelis control US foreign policy in the region.

    The documents which they use to support their thesis include:

    A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties by Oded Yinon, written in 1982.

    A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm by Richard Perle and Benjamin Netanyahu, written in 1996.

    Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century by PNAC which supported regime change in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia

    Those publications are generally accepted as the Pro-Israeli policies but then there's a more American side of policies such as Iran: Time for a new approach by Robert Gates and Zbigniew Brzezinski (who encouraged Carter to support Mujaheddin in Afghanistan)

    With regard to Iran, Secretary Colin Powell and Deputy Richard Armitage resigned as a result of John Bolton refusing the negotiate with the Iranians over their Nuclear program.

    Incidentally, you had Robin Cook who resigned in 2003 upon the decision to invade Iraq and you also had Jack Straw be replaced in 2005 not long after his disagreements with Condaleezza Rice on whether Iran should be attacked or invaded.

    The US policy towards Iran seems inconsistent with the Israeli policies and that's why I'm slightly skeptical of the belief among some people that Israel controls US foreign policy.

    Netanyahu once boasted he could easily move America..



    But I'm not entirely convinced with such comments, it would be that easy anymore.

    If you look at recent developments in Syria, you'll see both John Kerry and Benjamin Netanyahu meeting with Vladimir Putin in Russia.

    If these 2 countries (US and Israel) are on the same page as we would presume, why have 2 separate meetings?

    Not long after Kerry's meetings, Russia remained committed on delivering the S-300 missiles to Syria, despite Israel threatening to destroy them.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    Colgem wrote: »
    The iron dome isn't a nuclear deterrent.

    What on earth are you talking about?, did I say the Iron Dome was a nuclear deterrant?

    No what I said was that anybody firing 100's of missiles at Israels own nuclear facilities would effectively "Nuke" Israel, the Iron Dome is as useful as an ashtray on a honda 50, I have shown in a past post that it cannot cope with more than 3 missiles at once, even home made Palestinian ones, so if you or anybody else think Iron Dome will protect Israeli nuclear plants from more sophisticated missiles your very much mistaken.

    Where was Iron Dome when homemade rockets fired from Gaza hit Tel Aviv???


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,328 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Calm it down a bit, stuar. Some of your replies are getting aggressive and needlessly sarcastic.


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