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Moisture meter

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  • 13-11-2012 7:21pm
    #1
    locky76
    Registered Users Posts: 867 ✭✭✭


    Hey folks, i'm hoping to buy a moisture meter for some spruce I've cut up & split. Anyone out there have one they'd recommend? I'd spend up to €100 to get the right one...


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    #2
    TopTec
    Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭TopTec


    I have a small Stihl, got it from amazon for 20 quid I think it was.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Moisture-Digital-Tester-Detector-Timber/dp/B004NQ0RL4

    It's digital, seems to be accurate and will measure ambient temperature as well as wood and turf. It is the type with two little prongs and is smaller than a packet of fags.

    It does the job for me and has some good reviews. Why pay 100 when 20 gets one that does the job.

    TT


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    #3
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    lovely I want one:

    that was £19.95 so about €25 plus postage from amazon

    €43 here plus delivery of €7.50:

    http://www.irishforestryproducts.ie/measuring_equipment.html


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    #4
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Got one from amazon last year - £10 + £5 postage.

    Seems to do the job all right so far.


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    #5
    locky76
    Registered Users Posts: 867 ✭✭✭locky76


    Cheers folks, just after buying the stihl for £20 plus £5 packaging so should have it home in the yard for less than €40, happy days...
    Do ye use it much and do you see much improvement in the moisture content of the wood throughout the year and different storgae conditions?


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    #6
    TopTec
    Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭TopTec


    I use mine every other day. I won't burn any wood above 15% content although I am told anything under 20% is fine. Soft woods I use as soon as they are dry enough, sycamore, ash and whitethorn I will leave in an enclosed ex-dairy with good ventilation for a year or so.

    I also de-bark some of the rubbish firs and yews I have dotted around the place.

    TT


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    #7
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    couldnt resist it, had to get one too, worked out at €32.26.

    can't wait. Is it here yet, is it here yet........:D


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    #8
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    locky76 wrote: »
    Cheers folks, just after buying the stihl for £20 plus £5 packaging so should have it home in the yard for less than €40, happy days...
    Do ye use it much and do you see much improvement in the moisture content of the wood throughout the year and different storgae conditions?

    Yeah, use it a bit...

    I was surprised what moisture % some timber is - when you pick it up and think "Ah, its dry" - and then it reads over 25%... :eek:

    Definitely worth it, for checking when timber is ready to burn...


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    #9
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    TopTec wrote: »
    I use mine every other day. I won't burn any wood above 15% content although I am told anything under 20% is fine. Soft woods I use as soon as they are dry enough, sycamore, ash and whitethorn I will leave in an enclosed ex-dairy with good ventilation for a year or so.

    I also de-bark some of the rubbish firs and yews I have dotted around the place.

    TT

    What are you burning the wood in?

    In my gasifier, wood that's below 15% is too dry and it will burn very hot and quickly burn out. It needs to be in the region of 15% to 25% for a proper burn!


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    #10
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    The moisture content reccomended for stoves or ordinary fireplaces seems to be less than 20%. Is below 15% to dry for these as well?


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    #11
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    If you examine the chemistry, very difficult to see how wood can be too dry.
    Water doesn't help an efficent combustion.
    With proper control of air supply 15% dry should be more efficent.

    Oldtree wrote: »
    The moisture content reccomended for stoves or ordinary fireplaces seems to be less than 20%. Is below 15% to dry for these as well?


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    #12
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Its hard to get wood much below 20% here, even stored under cover the atmosphere is quite humid.


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    #13
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Oldtree wrote: »
    The moisture content reccomended for stoves or ordinary fireplaces seems to be less than 20%. Is below 15% to dry for these as well?

    I can't give you an answer to that because I don't know.


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    #14
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    ford2600 wrote: »
    If you examine the chemistry, very difficult to see how wood can be too dry.
    Water doesn't help an efficent combustion.
    With proper control of air supply 15% dry should be more efficent.

    Log gasifying boiler has one of the most controlled air supplies of any wood burning appliance. When I installed it first, I had just built my house and had a store of wood cut offs from the build. Some of it kiln dried. It really didn't burn very well. It burned too hot and the air breather system made a lot of loud banging noises. I had to mix it with higher % dry timber in order to use it. The documentation with the boiler specifically says to have wood dried between 15% and 25% in order to get maximum efficiency out of the wood and the boiler.

    Some gasifying boilers will burn wood up to 35% moisture.


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    #15
    TopTec
    Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭TopTec


    reilig wrote: »
    What are you burning the wood in?

    In my gasifier, wood that's below 15% is too dry and it will burn very hot and quickly burn out. It needs to be in the region of 15% to 25% for a proper burn!

    I'm burning mine in a Stanley Superstar and a Stanley Oisin, and also a small open fire. I find that stuff approaching 20%, especially softwoods, spit and pop which sends one of my dogs scampering to hide!

    Kiln dried wood is down to 15% and below so once the softwood I have stored in the Dairy is around 18% I bring a pile in and it is down to 15% when I burn it. As far as I am aware, correct me someone if I am wrong, but moisture is the chief cause of creosote that ultimately furrs up the flue and burning areas of the range.

    If you can burn a piece of wood that has 20% in an open fire and you will see the moisture boiling off.... not a good thing. TBH Reilig I don't notice any hotter burn at these moisture levels. If it is getting hot then I close the damper and that controls the burn.

    I would guess that your gasifier is a lot more sensitive than a clumping great Stanley Donard.:)

    TT


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    #16
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    TopTec wrote: »
    I'm burning mine in a Stanley Superstar and a Stanley Oisin, and also a small open fire. I find that stuff approaching 20%, especially softwoods, spit and pop which sends one of my dogs scampering to hide!

    Kiln dried wood is down to 15% and below so once the softwood I have stored in the Dairy is around 18% I bring a pile in and it is down to 15% when I burn it. As far as I am aware, correct me someone if I am wrong, but moisture is the chief cause of creosote that ultimately furrs up the flue and burning areas of the range.

    If you can burn a piece of wood that has 20% in an open fire and you will see the moisture boiling off.... not a good thing. TBH Reilig I don't notice any hotter burn at these moisture levels. If it is getting hot then I close the damper and that controls the burn.

    I would guess that your gasifier is a lot more sensitive than a clumping great Stanley Donard.:)

    TT

    I have a stanley errigal in my kitchen and burn the same wood in it. Once its below 25%, it burns with no excessive creosote build up. I have never seen moisture bubble off a wood at below 25% moisture. When you consider that wood pellets are approx 10 to 12% moisture, 15% to 25% moisture is pretty dry.

    In my own experience, the biggest cause of cresote build up in the Errigal is closing off the damper and the bottom air supply too much in order to controle the fire. This causes the cooker to suck air (and the moisture in it) down the chimney and then causes a creosote build up.

    At the end of the day, your stanley donard has an efficiency of less than 68%. My gasifying boiler has an efficiency of over 90%. I have to feed it the type of wood that its documentation requests in order to achieve this.


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    #17
    locky76
    Registered Users Posts: 867 ✭✭✭locky76


    The moisture meter arrived today :D, for the grand total of €32.
    The timber I'm burning this year is running at 16%, I store it in two old cattle boxes so dead happy with this % mositure...
    I got some spruce (10 cubic meters)off a neighbour which was cut last May and I split it a month ago, this is running between 38% to 45% ( it should be fine for Winter 2013/Spring 2014).
    locky76 wrote: »
    Cheers folks, just after buying the stihl for £20 plus £5 packaging so should have it home in the yard for less than €40, happy days...
    Do ye use it much and do you see much improvement in the moisture content of the wood throughout the year and different storgae conditions?


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    #18
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Anyone find timber cut last winter is not dry enough to burn yet due to crap weather still above 25% moisture, have a French made invicta stove and if the wood is not around 20 % the heat output is way down


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    #19
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    Anyone find timber cut last winter is not dry enough to burn yet due to crap weather still above 25% moisture, have a French made invicta stove and if the wood is not around 20 % the heat output is way down

    I have spruce that was cut last november. Its was sawed and split and stored in an airy shed and its down below 20%. I have hardwood - willow, birch and ash, which was sawn into 500mm logs for the gasifier but not split. Only the ash is below 25%. Normally the willow and birch would dry out in 12 months, but I assume that the moisture in the air is not allowing for this. I'm going to split it in the coming weeks which should allow for faster drying.


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    #20
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    wood I cut last winter and left out and have just cut up was still damp, meter not here yet, so damp that shoots were happily growing out of it.

    I'm going to split it shortly and move some of it into the polytunnel to see if that increases the drying out next summer compared to that left outside, which used to do the job fine, metered of course.


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    #21
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    I have alder willow skogh and elder, mostly boughs 3 to 12 ins in diameter on concrete not covered, alder and willow have dried a bit skogh and elder still very wet have some elder cut 2 years and its still not dry, will be burning green ash for a while I think


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    #22
    mountainy man
    Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭mountainy man


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    I have alder willow skogh and elder, mostly boughs 3 to 12 ins in diameter on concrete not covered, alder and willow have dried a bit skogh and elder still very wet have some elder cut 2 years and its still not dry, will be burning green ash for a while I think

    What is skogh? (am guessing iphone autocorrect:D)


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    #23
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    got the meter yday and had to send it back as faulty, amazon didnt do a replacement only a refund promised :( have to wait longer to do my metering


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    #24
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Skogh is whitethorn around here.
    Would anyone know when the sap is at its lowest in ash, will be cutting some to burn after Christmas and was wondering would I be better to wait a few weeks to cut, to allow the sap level fall


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    #25
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    After leaf fall there is no function as trees operate under negative pressure. I dont think it would take very long for the sap to fall to its lowest level after that. Saying that the wood does not dry out by the lowering of the sap, more like a tree function temporally ceases.

    However you arnt going to get much drying over winter and really need to season wood for a season or two before it is dry enough to burn. Ash is 35-40% dry when cut, so a long way to go to being dry (15-20%).
    (wood pellets are at 8-10% moisture content)

    Burning wet wood is frought with problems as well as wasting it.


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    #26
    TopTec
    Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭TopTec


    I know this is a slight crossover of 2 threads but would burning infected Ash cause any problems in terms of the disease spread. I have seen some awful pictures from Poland showing how the cross section of an infected tree is all brown. That can't be good for burning surely?

    TT


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    #27
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    TopTec wrote: »
    As far as I am aware, correct me someone if I am wrong, but moisture is the chief cause of creosote
    TT

    The principal causes of creosote are a) incomplete burn of the wood usually resulting from temperature at the point ofcombustion being too low, b) un burnt tars and gases going up the chimney, c) the chimney being too cold allowing d) the unburnt smoke condensing on the inside of the chimney and sticking as highly flammable tar. c) is exacerbated by a) and all of this vicious circle is fed by using wet wood, not enough air and a poorly designed firebox.

    So use only dry wood and loads of air in a well designed unit and yiu will avoid creosote.


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    #28
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    TopTec wrote: »
    I know this is a slight crossover of 2 threads but would burning infected Ash cause any problems in terms of the disease spread. I have seen some awful pictures from Poland showing how the cross section of an infected tree is all brown. That can't be good for burning surely?

    TT

    The problem is the transportation of the infected wood to be burnt, spreading spores.

    Many Fungi live with trees, so there are many colors to be seen when disecting a tree, some have a more nasty effect in burning wood terms like soft and brown rots. Some fungi live in the tree and dont have any effect until the tree dies and then they spring into action. A simbiotic relationship is known between tree roots and mycorrhizae (fungi) in the soil.


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    #29
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Oldtree wrote: »
    got the meter yday and had to send it back as faulty,

    I got one from Amazon last week, and I reckon its reading under- freshly cut cypress reading as 25% ?? What was wrong with yours?


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    #30
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    it just didnt start (came with batteries) even after i spen a further €8 on batteries to try and see if it was somthing simple, still waiting on refund.


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    #31
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    Skogh is whitethorn around here.
    Would anyone know when the sap is at its lowest in ash, will be cutting some to burn after Christmas and was wondering would I be better to wait a few weeks to cut, to allow the sap level fall
    Oldtree wrote: »
    After leaf fall there is no function as trees operate under negative pressure. I dont think it would take very long for the sap to fall to its lowest level after that. Saying that the wood does not dry out by the lowering of the sap, more like a tree function temporally ceases.

    However you arnt going to get much drying over winter and really need to season wood for a season or two before it is dry enough to burn. Ash is 35-40% dry when cut, so a long way to go to being dry (15-20%).
    (wood pellets are at 8-10% moisture content)

    Burning wet wood is frought with problems as well as wasting it.

    I read somewhere (which was the opposite to what I always thought...) that the best time to cut trees is before the leaves fall off, and to leave them with the limbs / leaves on them for a few weeks.
    The theory is that the leaves will still draw the sap up the tree, even though its cut, and will dry it out quicker and better than when its cut when the leaves have fallen off...

    Anyone ever heard this?


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