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Removing common rail diesel injectors.

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  • 07-11-2012 12:00am
    #1
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭


    Just thought I'd post a few pics of removing a common rail diesel injector. These can be very simple to remove, normally taking only a few minutes on most cars, however if they have suffered a failure of the injector seal which is left undetected for any length of time it can turn into a much more difficult job......in the worst cases, requiring the removal of the cylinder head:eek:

    Car = Ford Fiesta 1.4tdci.

    The injector in situe, The black shiny stuff all around the injector is carbon build up caused by the combustion gasses getting past the failed seal. These build up and harden, leading to the injector becoming stuck in the head and if left further, filling the injector recess and covering the injector, pipes, connectors etc...

    2012-11-06111853.jpg

    Injector socket in place, this removes the injector solenoid from the top of the injector body.

    2012-11-06112045.jpg

    With the solenoid removed, the piezo element is visible. These are extremely finely calibrated so should not be removed or touched as if any dirt gets in or any parts are disturbed the injector will become unserviceable.

    2012-11-06112314.jpg

    2012-11-06112327.jpg

    A brand specific 'cap' is fitted, this has two functions, one is to hold the piezo components in place preventing any movement and the second is to allow the fitting of the injector removal tool via the threaded piece on the top.

    2012-11-06112516.jpg

    And the removal tool attached(essentially a specifically designed slide hammer)

    2012-11-06113017.jpg

    A few goes with the tool and the injector breaks the carbon build up and comes free. The carbon covers most of the injector body which already has a pretty fine fitment tolerance in the head.

    2012-11-06113351.jpg

    The injector cleaned ready to re-use.

    2012-11-06115113.jpg


    I've seen and heard of many people saying that once you get build up like this the injectors can only be replaced as to remove them you have to weld this and that to them to pull them out but this is certainly not the case.

    All of that work to change a 50c seal:eek:


Comments

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    #2
    nct tester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 361 ✭✭nct tester


    Are the injectors coded on these??


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    #3
    Ronnie Beck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Ronnie Beck


    How do you clean the injectors?


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    #4
    George Dalton
    Registered Users Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭George Dalton


    Nice write up. I have to say that the 1.4tdci/hdi engine is probably my least favourite engine to do anything with. They are just horrible IMO...


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    #5
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    nct tester wrote: »
    Are the injectors coded on these??

    No on the 1.4tdci they aren't coded. That's not an issue if you are refitting the same injector back into the same position anyway.
    Ronnie Beck wrote: »
    How do you clean the injectors?

    The main body was cleaned with a wire brush wheel. You don't clean the nozzle as any particles at all can effect its operation.
    George Dalton wrote: »
    Nice write up. I have to say that the 1.4tdci/hdi engine is probably my least favourite engine to do anything with. They are just horrible IMO...

    True, to properly access the injectors the rocker cover has to come off and in turn there is a load a stuff clocking the rocker covers removal. This was worse in this case as the carbon had bonded the two halfs of the inlet manifold together.:rolleyes:


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    #6
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    A few more to complete this.

    With the injector recess/hole blocked up, as much of the major carbon build up as possible is removed. The pic shows the copper injector seal is still stuck in the bottom of the injector recess.

    2012-11-08115816.jpg

    Then the special 'stuck injector seal removal tool'(which only looks like a cunningly shaped piece of welding wire:p) is used to pry the seal out.

    2012-11-08120509.jpg

    And, after much cursing, the seal comes out.

    2012-11-08120546.jpg

    The spot where the combustion gas was escaping is pretty clear on the seal.

    2012-11-08120756.jpg

    The same is done for all 4 injectors. Its good practice to change all 4 and, generally, the other injectors come out easily once their seals weren't leaking as they won't have any carbon build up. Before refitting the injectors, a final check is a good idea to be certain that no stray bits of carbon have made it into any of the cylinders.

    2012-11-08115551.jpg

    Nice clean piston with no debris so all good.

    2012-11-08115602.jpg

    And all the injectors refitted and the surrounding area cleaned and ready for re-assembly. New bolts are required for the injector clamps as these have to be specifically torqued, as with head bolts, to ensure the injectors operate correctly.

    2012-11-08155747-1.jpg


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    #7
    dieselbug
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭dieselbug


    Good post

    What about when the sliding hammer kit wont budge the injectors? Heard some horror stories about injectors breaking etc.
    407s, vivaroes, head removal?


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    #8
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    dieselbug wrote: »
    Good post

    What about when the sliding hammer kit wont budge the injectors? Heard some horror stories about injectors breaking etc.
    407s, vivaroes, head removal?
    A friend did a Vivaro, told me he had the whole front off the ground hanging off the injector!


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    #9
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    George Dalton wrote: »
    Nice write up. I have to say that the 1.4tdci/hdi engine is probably my least favourite engine to do anything with. They are just horrible IMO...
    Try it's big brother 1.6 tdci. Iit's worse.....:)


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    #10
    dieselbug
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭dieselbug


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    A friend did a Vivaro, told me he had the whole front off the ground hanging off the injector!

    There is a tool out there for this but, £££$$$


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    #11
    Row
    Registered Users Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    shamwari wrote: »
    Try it's big brother 1.6 tdci. Iit's worse.....:)

    Tell me about it..:eek:

    Fitted a cam chain on a c4 1.6 hdi last year...Tried to remove all injectors but
    would they hell budge...:mad:
    The scuttle panel had been fitted poorly and water had leaked in around the injectors.al four injectors had rusted into the steel sleeves/guides.

    Had the front of the car lifted off the ground with a pulley block with a 1 metre stroke sliding hammer attached...Still no joy.

    Ended up making up this little pullers and it got them out first go.....:)

    Removinginjectorswithpullers.jpg


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    #12
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    dieselbug wrote: »
    Good post

    What about when the sliding hammer kit wont budge the injectors? Heard some horror stories about injectors breaking etc.
    407s, vivaroes, head removal?

    Its rare that it wouldn't work with the right technique. getting a twisting action going while tapping with the slide hammer would break the grip of the carbon much quicker then just trying to lift the injector straight up.

    I have only once had to remove a head to remove the injectors and that was a Mercedes ML where all 4 injectors, pipes, connections etc where completely buried by carbon. Even the plastic engine cover broke because it was stuck to the carbon:eek:
    dieselbug wrote: »
    There is a tool out there for this but, £££$$$

    The puller type tool I'd say your talking about can just as easily damage the injector if its really stuck, the down side is that they can also cause serious damage to the cylinder head itself if not used very carefully.


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    #13
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    Row wrote: »
    Tell me about it..:eek:

    Fitted a cam chain on a c4 1.6 hdi last year...Tried to remove all injectors but
    would they hell budge...:mad:
    The scuttle panel had been fitted poorly and water had leaked in around the injectors.al four injectors had rusted into the steel sleeves/guides.

    Had the front of the car lifted off the ground with a pulley block with a 1 metre stroke sliding hammer attached...Still no joy.

    Ended up making up this little pullers and it got them out first go.....:)

    Removinginjectorswithpullers.jpg


    Jese that's actually a better design then the specific tool that's available!


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    #14
    Row
    Registered Users Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    Nissan doctor wrote: »
    Jese that's actually a better design then the specific tool that's available!

    It took alot of man hours on a milling machine/lathe/welder but it worked out in the end...I have used it a few time since and it has'nt failed me yet..:)


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    #15
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    Row wrote: »
    It took alot of man hours on a milling machine/lathe/welder but it worked out in the end...I have used it a few time since and it has'nt failed me yet..:)


    The big flat base you have on it would spread the load onto the cylinder head much better the the 3 or 4 legs of the normal tools. Very nice I have to say.....did you keep the plans?:P


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    #16
    Row
    Registered Users Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    Nissan doctor wrote: »
    The big flat base you have on it would spread the load onto the cylinder head much better the the 3 or 4 legs of the normal tools. Very nice I have to say.....did you keep the plans?:P

    I'm in process of making up another two...Just trying to get the time to finish them atm.
    The base is made from 19mm mild steel and i used two M16 (fine thread) on the jacking bolts.
    I can rent it out to you if your stuck...:)

    The only thing its only designed to work on the 1.6 hdi (dv6) engines.


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    #17
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    on the subject of diesel injectors, my old man's citroen is misbehaving..seems the washer/seal needs to be replaced

    saw this guide but can't understand what the guy means about "removing material":confused: (half way down page)

    BTW- is it a job i could do myself or should i bring it to a garage?


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    #18
    enumbers
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭enumbers


    We have a porta power operated extractor, have only needed to resort to it 3 times since we got it . The problem with it is setting up the legs so its not applying unequal pressure. Takes a lot of messing to be happy with it probably be fine if we were using it more


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    #19
    dieselbug
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭dieselbug


    Nissan doctor wrote: »
    Its rare that it wouldn't work with the right technique. getting a twisting action going while tapping with the slide hammer would break the grip of the carbon much quicker then just trying to lift the injector straight up.

    Yes, but getting that twisting action can be the problem. Once you get any movement you"re on a winner.


    The puller type tool I'd say your talking about can just as easily damage the injector if its really stuck, the down side is that they can also cause serious damage to the cylinder head itself if not used very carefully.

    Pichler is the tool I meant, but very expensive and I did wonder about damageing the head as theres a lot of pressure concentrated on a very small area.

    Heres one method (not recommended) part three of three.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3EyTCwgg7Y


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    #20
    Ronnie Beck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Ronnie Beck


    Is there any reason why posts like this don't get stickied on here. A "How to..." sticky containing all these post would be a useful reference.


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    #21
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    Ronnie Beck wrote: »
    Is there any reason why posts like this don't get stickied on here. A "How to..." sticky containing all these post would be a useful reference.


    I'd be happy to do more like this as time allows if people are interested.


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    #22
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Nissan doctor wrote: »
    Jese that's actually a better design then the specific tool that's available!
    McGuiver eat your heart out! :D


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    #23
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Nissan doctor wrote: »
    I'd be happy to do more like this as time allows if people are interested.

    Out of curiousity, have you pulled injectors out of a Opel / Fiat 1.3 diesel?


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    #24
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    shamwari wrote: »
    Out of curiousity, have you pulled injectors out of a Opel / Fiat 1.3 diesel?


    I haven't yet TBH. But then they don't seem to give much trouble compared to other engines.


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    #25
    Maurisa
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Maurisa


    Can anyone help!! I'm trying to remove an injector from a Chreokee Jeep and one is badly stuck, anyone with info on this, thanking you


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    #26
    Maurisa
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Maurisa


    Yes, why?


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    #27
    Lucifer
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 1,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lucifer


    shamwari wrote: »

    Out of curiousity, have you pulled injectors out of a Opel / Fiat 1.3 diesel?

    Have done a few. If they are seized in I have always got them out with a slide hammer. Hazet do a slide hammer with the correct attachments or if you have a slide hammer you just need to make something with the right thread.


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    #28
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    ....here's one I (didn't !) have to do, earlier !! :)

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76761879

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #29
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    ^^^Did you try twisting the injector or just try pulling it straight up. Twisting normally breaks the seal made by the carbon which is much more difficult to break by just pulling straight up.


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