The Asgard

Indeed maritime items are very neglected in this country but Guinness - now Diageo - is not the philanthropic concern that it was back in the days when it was a family business. All Diageo care about now is the ludicrous Arthur's Day and they are probably still kicking themselves for not flogging the St.James' Gate site for redevelopment during the boom.

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Pity Guinness couldn't do up an old Guinness Barge for their anniversary. I think there may be one or two hanging around yet.

As JD said above 'maritime items are very neglected in this country'. There was a plan to revive the Guinness barges during the Celtic Tiger - some private co tried to launch (sorry) a company promoting historic barge cruises and a water taxi/ferry on the Liffey. It was totally half-assed (4 hour cruises on the Liffey was one bit I recall) and never got past the planning stage. There are some barges around, but most are gone. When sold by Guinness they were used as sand barges on rivers, mainly in N Irl. A couple were blown up by the IRA (UVF?) in the '70's, some sank, others were scuttled for use as breakwater foundations. There is a book that has a good bit about them - don't have it, I'm a blue water guy;)

Tabnabs wrote: »

There's actually quite a strong boat heritage in Ireland. TBH, it's just our maritime heritage is relatively uninspiring when compared to so many other countries.

I disagree. There is a strong history of seafaring but little regard for heritage in this country. Both are inspiring when compared to some other countries, particularly when measured against the available ‘local’ wealth. Down through history many Irishmen distinguished themselves at sea – St Brendan & his voyage, the Dublin Vikings and Irish pirates who raided across the Irish sea, the merchant traders who brought hides to France & Spain and returned with wine, etc; the ‘younger sons’ who served in the RN; add to them Admiral William Brown, Beaufort, Holland (the submarine man), the cruises of people like the Gore-Booths, Connor O’Brien, Bill King, Rory O'Hanlon to Jan Mayen Land, Barry & the Naomh Padraigh, Gore-Grimes to the Arctic/Antartic, include the innovative designs of O’Brien Kennedy and it becomes hard to know when to stop.

As for our heritage as an island nation, look what happened to the Dublin Bay 21s and 24s. Look what happened to Irish Shipping Ltd., Asgard II, Jeannie Johnson, etc. A few barges do not a heritage make. (And before someone throws it at me, Waterwags & Glens are the exception.)

Tabnabs wrote: »

I did say (and underline) the word relatively. You visit the UK, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Norway. They all have equally long but far more extensive coastal culture and heritage. The Irish experience pails into relative insignificance in caparison.

Take Irish Shipping for example, one lousy shipping company of note. One...

Even the lovely Asgard is a part of another countries maritime heritage.

Irish Shipping was hardly 'of note', with less than 6 ships, and smaller than many private British lines. But there were countless small Irish lines, and even smaller operations for coastal trading around Ireland. The railways did not open up until the 1850s, so sending goods from Dublin to SW Ireland was inevitably by sea.
Not sure what you mean about Asgard? Her heritage is Irish, even if she was designed by a Norwegian. The Alhambra is Spanish, even if it was designed and built by Moors.

I’m not sure where you are coming from on this. For starters, you said

Tabnabs wrote: »

Even the lovely Asgard is a part of another countries maritime heritage.

which clearly appears pejorative and I countered with

Not sure what you mean about Asgard? Her heritage is Irish, even if she was designed by a Norwegian. The Alhambra is Spanish, even if it was designed and built by Moors.

In more detail, the Asgard was designed to the specification of an Irish person and built for other Irish people by a Scots/Norwegian. Contrary to what you said her heritage is Irish. I am quite familiar with the designs of Colin Archer and the impact of his role on naval architecture – for example his early use of a type of furling forestay and the impact of his designs on the choice of much later bluewater sailors such as Moitessier. (And while I am on the Asgard I do not agree with the Nat. Museum’s claim that she is the most noteworthy of Irish yachts, I believe that that place probably goes to Conor O’Brien’s ‘Saoirse’ which has a stronger Irish heritage and as a sailing yacht achieved a lot more.)

Nor do I agree with your remarks on Irish Shipping

Tabnabs wrote: »

Your suggestion that they had a fleet of less than six ships is also grossly inaccurate, try upwards of 50

– at the time Irish Shipping was closed down it had four ships, if memory serves. Yes, years before, post WW2 it had more than a dozen, most on charter, but I do not believe that it ever had a fleet of 50 afloat at any one time, certainly not under the Irish Flag. However, Irish Shipping is a special case, the usual cronyism, political interference and chronic mismanagement led to its demise. The same happened to several other semi-states (or quasi semi-states) , e.g. Irish Fertilizer Industries, Irish Steel Verolme,, CIE hotels, etc. They were disfunctional and deserved to be let go.

As for that historic boat association, it appears to me to be a group of people interested in barges and rivercraft who got a grant for a website from somebody like WI. A bit like the Ford Escort Club, or the MG Car Club (tipping the hat to Gobnait o’l). They certainly do not represent my limited interest and do absolutely nothing for any serious interest in historic craft – wooden sailing boats, including world famous designs such as Pucans, Gleoteogs and the Bad Mor are totally excluded as are the Wexford Cott, currachs, seine boats, not to mention the classic sailing boat designs such as those I mentioned above.