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anthony geoghegan, ciaran mcdonagh, jamaican athletics

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    #2
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Maybe because these guys have years of experience in treating top athletes.

    I have been to Geoghegan myself and have to say he was the best I have been to in this country without a doubt. Look at his client list of athletes in this country off the top of my head McKiernan, Nolan, S Connolly, V Mulvey.

    Look at Mac and you have Hession, Colvert and a host of the UCD athletes (again off the top of my head from experience and interraction with people)

    For me experience trumps a piece of paper given for a qualification which is based around a general and medical background moreso than a sports specific one.

    Funny you mention them without Hartmann who is a physical therapist also yet is regarded as one of the best in the world.

    As for money if you had any experience with either you would find that laughable as these guys fee's pale in comparison to the "real Physio's"

    Also Paul Doyle is not Irish


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    #3
    fiddy3
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭fiddy3


    The worst physio I've been to in my life had a phD in physiotherapy, and had all sorts of pieces of paper plastered on his wall, and he HATED physical therapists and the likes of Hartmann who stole his business. The best person I've been to, by far, is a physical therapist who did a whole 6-month course in physical therapy and yet has a client list that proves he's as good as he says he is. World class athletes like those mentioned don't give a toss about degrees, they care about who's good at getting them healthy. If that's a physio, osteopath, physical therapist, or voodoo witch doctor, then so be it.


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    #4
    irishrunner3
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭irishrunner3


    Thats the point though a few celeb endorsements and no one stops to think hang on a minute! It's the Emporers new clothes.
    I agree it seems you dont need qualifications, just a call from Paul Doyle, or the like. I dont know Mr Doyle is from but he has an Irish connection. Also, wasnt ciaran mc donagh one of his athletes a few years ago? Actually, very few years ago so he cant have too much experience as a therapist.
    There was a good article on exactly this written in a US magazine, Ill see if I can find it.


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    #5
    irishrunner3
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭irishrunner3


    You are right Fiddy, the worst accountant I ever had had a load of qualifications! However look how well the UK has done and a lot of that is down to science from the likes of sport uk. Im not sure the athletes don't care. I'm no world class ahtlete!! but I care. Some probably do and some probably don't. It is the way sport is going though whether you like it or not. To be taken serioulsy we are gonna have to move with the times. At the end of the day it's personal choice so Im not saying what works for you is wrong. Im talking about the wider issue of endorsement.


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    #6
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    irishrunner3 wrote: »
    Thats the point though a few celeb endorsements and no one stops to think hang on a minute! It's the Emporers new clothes.
    I agree it seems you dont need qualifications, just a call from Paul Doyle, or the like. I dont know Mr Doyle is from but he has an Irish connection. Also, wasnt ciaran mc donagh one of his athletes a few years ago? Actually, very few years ago so he cant have too much experience as a therapist.
    There was a good article on exactly this written in a US magazine, Ill see if I can find it.


    How about the people who go to a host of physios with an injury spend a fortune on sessions and then go to the likes of Geoghegan and are treated within 20 min for about 1/4 the cost of one session from the others (Personal experience)

    Rather than asking about the qualifications perhaps its wiser to look at the results. Can you list any of the Jamaican athletes (or others) who have been critical of the treatment by these therapists?


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    #7
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    the best qualified on paper are often the worst practitioners ime


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    #8
    irishrunner3
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭irishrunner3


    ecoli, think you are missing the point Im making.


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    #9
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Physio -v- other therapists has been done to death on this forum and other forums on boards.

    A lot of physios with their degrees and masters and phd's have no clue about sports related injuries, fact is their training is a lot more varied compared to physical therapists and voodoo witch doctors. There are some great physios out there treating sports injuries, just like there are great physio's specialising in respiratory medicine and care of the elderly.

    Anyway, have been to one of the therapists who treats the jamacians a couple of times and I don't rate him very highly myself. Charges half of what I pay to Peter Mathews but gives no where near the sort of treatment I'd expect. Get what you pay for my preference is with Mathews. Have been to a number of physios and never found one who was capable of providing the sort of service I'd expect for what you pay them.


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    #10
    Menapians
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Menapians


    The original reason Geoghegan was hired was because of his proximity to England and he came highly recommended. He was originally suppos to just suppose to be there for the Olympics but obviously the athletes saw the results he got and wanted him to be flown over He works on NIKE's athletes in Miami aswell. Hes done with it all now after the Olympics or so he says.


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    #11
    myflipflops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭myflipflops


    DO you think Paul Doyle is bringing poor, under qualified physios to treat his athletes to give his mates a leg up?? I suspect he is a bit more professional than that.
    irishrunner3 wrote: »
    It doesnt really matter except its not great for Irish sport that people like this are being promoted in the media and probably set to make a huge amount of money off the back of it.

    Even if the whole thing was a scam, how would that be bad for Irish sport in any way?


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    #12
    irishrunner3
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭irishrunner3


    That is what I think and so do a lot of other people. Many people feel Paul Doyle should not be managing Powell for example and that the athlete has been mismanaged. It is bad for Irish sport and all sport, we should be encouraging the pursuit of excellence not helping out our mates. :) Anyway, I'm off for a run!!


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    #13
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,110 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    irishrunner3 wrote: »
    That is what I think and so do a lot of other people. Many people feel Paul Doyle should not be managing Powell for example and that the athlete has been mismanaged. It is bad for Irish sport and all sport, we should be encouraging the pursuit of excellence not helping out our mates. :) Anyway, I'm off for a run!!

    Surely that's up to Asafa Powell.

    I find the whole thread sort of bizarre. First time poster, signs up to create a thread like this. Strange.


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    #14
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Surely that's up to Asafa Powell.

    I find the whole thread sort of bizarre. First time poster, signs up to create a thread like this. Strange.

    Atleast trolls are getting more knowledgeable I suppose:D


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    #15
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Surely that's up to Asafa Powell.

    I find the whole thread sort of bizarre. First time poster, signs up to create a thread like this. Strange.

    Bet it's a ''Chartered Physio''


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    #16
    irishrunner3
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭irishrunner3


    No last time I checked I wasn't, but yes I am a first time poster and am really into sport, esp running. I post on many other sports sites about many aspects of sport and have never got that response from anyone. I thought I'd join an Irish forum and this is an open forum, open to everyone? Your attitude is what is strange but each to their own. There is a really good forum going on, on one of the olympic sites and many many people (esp jamaican) have the same feeling on this as me. You obviously have a personal interest in this and feel defensive about the subject. I apologise I touched a nerve regarding qualifications.
    Think I may stick with more sport specific sites from now on!!


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    #17
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    irishrunner3 wrote: »
    No last time I checked I wasn't, but yes I am a first time poster and am really into sport, esp running. I post on many other sports sites about many aspects of sport and have never got that response from anyone. I thought I'd join an Irish forum and this is an open forum, open to everyone? Your attitude is what is strange but each to their own. There is a really good forum going on, on one of the olympic sites and many many people (esp jamaican) have the same feeling on this as me. You obviously have a personal interest in this and feel defensive about the subject. I apologise I touched a nerve regarding qualifications.
    Think I may stick with more sport specific sites from now on!!

    Is this aimed at me? Nope, your post just screamed ''I'm a physio and I feel hard done by because inferior therapists have a job I want'' - physios tend to suffer with a severe superiority complex and they are completely ignorant of the sort of training that goes into other courses of similar disciplines. Health sciences forum has had a topic similar to that re: qualificaitons done to death, as has this one as has health and fitness. Having worked with physios in a big physio department for years I learnt just how poor their knowledge of sports/musculoskeltal injuries can be. They used to be sh*tting bricks when they'd be going onto their outpatients rotation as they weren't used to dealing with msk injuries on the wards.

    In your original post you were saying that Geoghan, McDonagh etc shouldn't be doing this work because they're not physios. Not sure what Geoghan studied but McDonagh has done ITEC bodywork diplomas and studied with IPTA's - good qualifications all round.

    Anyone with qualifications and a couple of years experience can apply to work at the olympics. I know McDonagh works specifically with Powell and you're eluding to them being called up, but someone with a sports massage diploma, work experience and references can work on athletes at the olympics. I don't see how it would 'not be great' for Irish sport if people with qualifications, knowledge and who are competent therapists are treating top athletes? I don't see what it has to do with Irish sport at all? :confused:

    As I've said, I've been treated by one of the names you mentioned in the past and I didn't feel he was up to scratch. I agree that just because someone works with big names it doesn't mean they are any good at what they do, at the same time - just because someone has a BSc, MSc and PhD it doesn't meant they're better than someone with a level 7 or a few diplomas.


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    #18
    Milkers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Milkers


    I have seen dozens of Irish Chartered Physiotherapists at work over the years and can safely say as a group they are the most useless professionals I have encountered in any field in any country in the world. And it's not even close. The two best sports therapists in the country by a mile are/were Anthony Geoghegan (current) and Gerard Hartmann (10 years ago).


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    #19
    ss43
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭ss43


    Milkers wrote: »
    I have seen dozens of Irish Chartered Physiotherapists at work over the years and can safely say as a group they are the most useless professionals I have encountered in any field in any country in the world. And it's not even close. The two best sports therapists in the country by a mile are/were Anthony Geoghegan (current) and Gerard Hartmann (10 years ago).

    In what way has Hartmann got worse over the last ten years?


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