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Some news re MK3'S

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    #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I guess it's no surprise that they'll be scrapped. :(


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    #3
    xtradel
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭xtradel


    Approximately 90 vehicles stabled in 4 locations around the country.

    Do they even know how many they have??


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    #4
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    xtradel wrote: »
    Do they even know how many they have??

    They may be keeping a few as backup for when the DDs sets have to get their mid life refurb.



    Yeah right,:D


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    #5
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,556 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    This is an example of IE been given far too much money and they seem to not have enough sense obviously.


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    #6
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    This is an example of IE been given far too much money and they seem to not have enough sense obviously.

    Well the Mk3s had to go as they had to cut staff numbers. By getting rid of the Mk3s they removed the need for a train guard, the driver of the shunt release loco and a shunter to couple the loco up to the coaches at each end of the line.

    But in saying all that, this is now the end of the best coaching stock to ever run in this country and will not be topped again. The 201s will be the last loco IE will ever operate. It's all railcars and MPVs for here on in once the tara traffic turns to road transport.


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    #7
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,556 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    It amazes me and it has been said in this thread in that IR appear not to know how many mk3s they actually have. Surely IR have the ability to count ? 1...2...3...4....5 it's not rocket science.


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    #8
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    By getting rid of the Mk3s they removed the need for a train guard, the driver of the shunt release loco and a shunter to couple the loco up to the coaches at each end of the line.
    i thought they had dvts/control cars? that was supposed to remove swapping the loco at each end? forgive my ignorence but.
    1. what are MPVs?
    2. what do you mean by shunt release loco?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #9
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,473 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Could be that they've offered first pick to the preservation societies so they do not know how many will need to be scrapped and how many will be taken?


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    end of the road wrote: »
    2. what do you mean by shunt release loco?
    In Heuston, when a train arrived in they had to:

    uncouple the arriving loco (lets say a 201)
    attach a pilot loco to the opposite side (lets say a 141)
    pull the coaches out
    release the 201
    shunt the coaches back to the platform with the 141
    uncouple the 141 and attach the original 201 again (or another from Inchicore)

    Not an easy process but one which was undertaken many times every day.
    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Could be that they've offered first pick to the preservation societies so they do not know how many will need to be scrapped and how many will be taken?

    Could the preservation societies take them on? Being air conditioned they're not exactly suited to occasional use. Plus they've probably got mushrooms growing in them at this stage!


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    #11
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,473 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Karsini wrote: »
    In Heuston, when a train arrived in they had to:

    uncouple the arriving loco (lets say a 201)
    attach a pilot loco to the opposite side (lets say a 141)
    pull the coaches out
    release the 201
    shunt the coaches back to the platform with the 141
    uncouple the 141 and attach the original 201 again (or another from Inchicore)

    Not an easy process but one which was undertaken many times every day.

    they just attacehd a 201 to the other end, hauled it off on the scheduled service and then cleared the initial 201 away once the train had left, certainly that what happened in later years


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    #12
    flyingsnail
    Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭flyingsnail


    Karsini wrote: »
    .



    Could the preservation societies take them on? Being air conditioned they're not exactly suited to occasional use. Plus they've probably got mushrooms growing in them at this stage!

    They were withdraw as work came due so all that would have to be done before they could be put into use. And the fact that they are air braked would really limit their usability.


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    #13
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,473 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    end of the road wrote: »
    1. what are MPVs?
    this is an MPV, multi purpose vehicle

    post-6681-128023317652_thumb.jpg


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    #14
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    they just attacehd a 201 to the other end, hauled it off on the scheduled service and then cleared the initial 201 away once the train had left, certainly that what happened in later years

    That was when the had plenty of 201s and 071s on hand after 2007/8.

    On the summer beat seasons 2002-2006 it was a different story, every loco IE had was in use every day. Good times.


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    #15
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    end of the road wrote: »
    i thought they had dvts/control cars? that was supposed to remove swapping the loco at each end? forgive my ignorence but.

    They had 5 Mk3 DVTs for push pull sets, one was always a maintenance spare. There were 11 regular Mk3 rakes in every day use and 2 back up rakes. Mk3 push pulls could not manage peak services on Cork or Galway routes as they could only operate as 6 car rakes including the DVT compared to 8 or 9 car rakes of standard Mk3s. They were good for other routes but were limited to 70mph when being pushed.

    Sometimes they ended up with non PP capable 201s hauling them and the 201 would have to run around the set and haul it from the DVT end.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    Sometimes they ended up with non PP capable 201s hauling them and the 201 would have to run around the set and haul it from the DVT end.

    I heard a story from a guy in IE that a non-PP 201 once ended up pushing a Mark 3 service from Limerick and it worked fine, but CTC weren't too pleased and ordered a run-around at Thurles.

    I don't think he's the type to tell fibs but I do know the buffers on the non-PP 201s can't be retracted.


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    #17
    Maverick88
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Maverick88


    I'm surprised that no UK operators seemed to want to them.

    Chiltern railways (from Marylebone) have just refurbed their MK3's with power doors and chemical retension toilets. If you type Chiltern railways Mk3's into Google images there's some shots of them.

    They believe that the structure is good for at least another 10 years. What should be remembered is that these MK3's will be several years older than the IE fleet that's being scrapped/ left to rot until nothing else worth doing but scrapping


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    #18
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    Karsini wrote: »
    I heard a story from a guy in IE that a non-PP 201 once ended up pushing a Mark 3 service from Limerick and it worked fine, but CTC weren't too pleased and ordered a run-around at Thurles.

    I don't think he's the type to tell fibs but I do know the buffers on the non-PP 201s can't be retracted.

    Yep, I read that before on the IRN forums some years ago. Strange if true. About the buffers on the 201s, how the did the 121s manage with the PP sets?


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    #19
    Oscar Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,072 ✭✭✭✭Oscar Bravo


    Spot on Captain Chaos,i remember on a few occassions a 201 hauling a p/p set ex WPT. 201+DVT+4 63XX.


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    #20
    YouTookMyName
    Registered Users Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭YouTookMyName


    Scrapping MK3's. Sad day.


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    #21
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Millem wrote: »
    Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area

    There's only two left, the other three were scrapped fairly quickly.


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    #23
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Karsini wrote: »
    Millem wrote: »
    Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area

    There's only two left, the other three were scrapped fairly quickly.

    Thanks karsini, afaik 6101 and 6105 remain (the latter is at birth wall). I think 6103 was shot at / blown up as some sort of army exercise.

    Anyone have any idea how much that hotel in naas paid for the international set carriages ?


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    #24
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    *north wall. Damn predictive text !


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    #25
    Rud
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Rud


    Why weren't the push pull sets with the DVTs kept?If they can use the MK4s and DD sets which are all loco hauled,why weren't they told to keep these sets also rather than having money just thrown at them for the 22ks?

    It's a sad time to see these fine,comfortable rakes just been done away with but as has been said many times,the state they are in,the way they have been left to rot away there wasn't much hope for them in the future

    Being the age i am i only remember travelling on these and the MK2s and i always loved them,great memories.I would love to get my hands on one or two of the emergency exit layout signs that used to be inside at the exit doors,i can't find a picture of them.Does anyone know how i would go about getting some of these or have i to buy one whole coach to get my hands on them???


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    #26
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    If the will was there, CAF could have been asked to build a follow-on order of DVTs with the Citygold cars fitted as transition vehicles to interface Mk4 and Mk3 power and control. Mk3s get a retention tank, wifi, pushpull wiring and an internal refurb. No release movements, no 75mph speed restrictions like the 6100s.

    But Dick and Co wanted more Korean DMUs so that's that.


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    #27
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Dick and Co wanted more Korean DMUs so that's that.

    did he not want the pension more? stored 201s 2700s and 8200s next for the brakers anyone?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #28
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Millem wrote: »
    Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area

    Including the removal costs from specialist firms which you'd need to pick up, you are probably looking at a 5 figure sum. Don't forget, these are not wheelchair accessible, they will need to be refitted from top to bottom for electrics, fittings, plumbing etc and you'll need to prepart a bit of land to rehome it. It's a very big ask.


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    #29
    flyingsnail
    Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭flyingsnail


    Millem wrote: »
    Does anyone have an idea of what sort of outlay would be required to purchase a pp DVT ? I have a small hospitality business and would love to have a mk3 to use as a cafe / diner area

    I have no idea what you would pay but don’t forget delivery would not be included and you would probably be paying the likes of Allelys 5k to 6k to move it.


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    #30
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    end of the road wrote: »
    did he not want the pension more? stored 201s 2700s and 8200s next for the brakers anyone?

    Well the 8200s were a mistake to begin with. Too small of a fleet to carry spares for, turned out to be lemons that even the Alstom engineers can't sort out. They should have been scrapped 4 years ago. Besides they had very bad ride quality, suffered from regular wheel flats and had terrible small hard plastic bucket seats.


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    #31
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    Well the 8200s were a mistake to begin with. Too small of a fleet to carry spares for, turned out to be lemons that even the Alstom engineers can't sort out. They should have been scrapped 4 years ago. Besides they had very bad ride quality, suffered from regular wheel flats and had terrible small hard plastic bucket seats.
    Can't sort out, or won't? It's funny how this class amazingly did not have a warranty and was such a mess that Alstom suddenly didn't have spare parts for it. Sure, just scrap them; after all, taxpayer money and borrowed money can be conjured out of thin air...


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