PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE(PTC) GOING OUT OF BUSINESS

PTCSTUDENT123 · 03-07-2012 12:23pm #1

HI All

This post is to let people know the situation as of this morning regarding PTC and the problems in Florida. I am a student at ptc and am training in ireland at the moment.

These statements have been made

OFFICIAL STATEMENT: 27th June 2012
First of all, on behalf of PTC, I want to sincerely apologise for the disruption that is being caused to your flight training.
PTC has found it necessary to challenge FIT in relation to their failure to deliver training in accordance with the training contract between PTC and FIT. FIT have failed over a protracted period to deliver training on schedule and in accordance with our contract. We have been actively involved in trying to resolve this issue for several months. We have had no option other than to bring this issue to a head. Unfortunately, the response from FIT has been to terminate all training and issue notice of cancellation of the contract.

PTC is in active negotiations with an alternative provider and we have informed FIT that this is our intention. We are unable to provide any further information at this time as these negotiations are delicate and protracted.

Please bear with us as we work towards bringing about a solution to these difficulties. We will keep everybody informed as the situation develops.

Capt. Mike Edgeworth,

Dear Staff & Students,

Thank you all for your patience and understanding at this time. We are continuing to work towards a solution to these difficulties and will ensure that you are updated as the situation develops. The statement issued here on June 27th will provide you with the current information.

We have confirmed from FIT that all visas are current and there is no immediate plan to change this status. Once further information is available we will update you all.

I appreciate your patience and understanding at this time.

Mike Edgeworth,

Dear Students:

PTC, FIT and the IAA have been in discussion in relation to the training stoppage at PTC Florida. Progress is being made on a solution that will resolve the issues involved and allow training to recommence. The IAA has sent a senior manager to meet with all parties to assess the situation and to explore how the training of all cadets can be completed to the satisfaction of all concerned. All efforts will be made to make this a smooth transition so that all PTC students are minimally impacted. Additional information will be provided at the beginning of next week as this transfer process unfolds. Thank you for your continued patience.

Sincerely,

Dr. Ken Stackpoole

PTCSTUDENT123 · 03-07-2012 12:25pm

here is a link to flying in ireland where a friend has posted similar information

http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5773&p=37572#p37572

PTCSTUDENT123 · 03-07-2012 12:34pm

heres some more info on PTC that they dont really want us to know.

http://www.asa.org.uk/Asa-Action/Adjudications/2010/10/The-Pilot-Training-College/TF_ADJ_49147.aspx

LeftBase · 03-07-2012 12:37pm

PTCSTUDENT123 wrote: »

heres some more info on PTC that they dont really want us to know.

http://www.asa.org.uk/Asa-Action/Adjudications/2010/10/The-Pilot-Training-College/TF_ADJ_49147.aspx

They were sued or threatened with legal action by Ryanair over the use to their name and logo a while back too! That did a lot of damage to the prospects of PTC students in getting into Ryanair

PTCSTUDENT123 · 03-07-2012 12:39pm

Here is some more information. this is copied straight from pprune(an aviation forum)

You have your facts wrong. PTC owes FIT a lot of money. We were told this by FIT with the IAApresent. The IAA did not deny thatstatement. Today PTC Florida isbankrupt, let go of all its employees, and closed its doors for ever. Most likely PTC Ireland will go down the samepath shortly. The only question is willthe students get back all the money they paid PTC? I doubt it. Will FIT ever get paid? I doubt it. A lot of people were seriously screwed over byPTC. It’s a shame.

Pilotdude5 · 03-07-2012 12:44pm

Wow feel sorry for the students. A friend of mine did his training with a place in Canada that folded halfway through as well and he lost a lot of money. It's a horrible situation to be in lads. Never pay upfront

LeftBase · 03-07-2012 12:47pm

PTCSTUDENT123 wrote: »

Here is some more information. this is copied straight from pprune(an aviation forum)

You have your facts wrong. PTC owes FIT a lot of money. We were told this by FIT with the IAApresent. The IAA did not deny thatstatement. Today PTC Florida isbankrupt, let go of all its employees, and closed its doors for ever. Most likely PTC Ireland will go down the samepath shortly. The only question is willthe students get back all the money they paid PTC? I doubt it. Will FIT ever get paid? I doubt it. A lot of people were seriously screwed over byPTC. It’s a shame.

The reason I didnt go with PTC was that they didnt own any of their aircraft etc and I knew that if they folded and I had money in them the bank would be number 1 at the door for it's money and I could sing for mine. I hope the students get their money back.....but realistically I wouldn't hold my breath.

flyingcowboys · 03-07-2012 1:55pm

I heard ptc shut down there sister company skytrace up in weston a few weeks back and sold all the planes.

doesnt sound like a company on a sure fincacial footing, time to jump ship me thinks

LeftBase · 03-07-2012 5:40pm

The Question I must ask is why anybody is training there?? I have known for over 2 years what a shower of cock and bull merchants they are as have many of the posters here I imagine..and also the issues airlines had with a few of their crop AND Ryanair's seeming dislike of them(death sentence for a flight school)...so why were people still enrolling?

Although I have the highest sympathy for their financial situation....I cant help feeling had they looked into the company they were giving 100k to properly and asked around a little bit they would have heard the truth and never done it.....

saspeir · 03-07-2012 5:59pm

LeftBase wrote: »

The Question I must ask is why anybody is training there?? I have known for over 2 years what a shower of cock and bull merchants they are as have many of the posters here I imagine..and also the issues airlines had with a few of their crop AND Ryanair's seeming dislike of them(death sentence for a flight school)...so why were people still enrolling?

Although I have the highest sympathy for their financial situation....I cant help feeling had they looked into the company they were giving 100k to properly and asked around a little bit they would have heard the truth and never done it.....

Whilst true, I don't think they need that pointed out. They stand to lose thousands... My sympathy to those that get burned! It ain't nice...

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw them sponsoring the Rose of Tralee... and Edgeworth presenting a prize for something or other... When schools start taking out expensive adverts it can be a sign of desperation.

flyingcowboys · 03-07-2012 6:24pm

one of the lads in florida just left this post, one of the most depressing thing ive read in a long time

"Lads out here in Florida are all getting quotes for the completion of training with FIT. Many can't afford to do so with the amount already paid to PTC. Lots of dreams being shattered here."

LeftBase · 03-07-2012 7:23pm

flyingcowboys wrote: »

one of the lads in florida just left this post, one of the most depressing thing ive read in a long time

"Lads out here in Florida are all getting quotes for the completion of training with FIT. Many can't afford to do so with the amount already paid to PTC. Lots of dreams being shattered here."

That is truly sad I have to say. I wonder if FIT offer a stand alone JAA programme or is it FAA. Guys may also be under hours for a CPL if they are switching courses as as far as I know to get the 150 hours rule you have to be on the one course. I'll stand corrected on this however.

It really is disgusting!

Mr Benevolent · 03-07-2012 11:05pm

People have been told not to pay upfront for years and they still ignore the advice. It's sad to hear about the guys who have lost their money. Training to be a pilot is a financially risky business even without the dodgy training schools.

happy_head · 03-07-2012 11:46pm

While my heart goes out to the guys and girls out in Florida at the moment, I have to agree with some of the posts above - who in their right mind would pay 90k upfront to a school with a track record such as theirs! I truly believe if people did proper research on this company they would never have chose them. A quick search on pprune or google throws up some fancinating stories.

Hopefully the students get their money back... And if they do the may want to continue their training at my new FTO contact me at givemeallyourparentsmoneyandyouwillgetashineybrochureandafewhoursflying.com

Jesus Nut · 04-07-2012 12:10am

Through there con-artist style of marketing, PTC managed to recruit those at most risk! A.K.A John and Mary who didn't know much about flying..They were innocent and easily taken in like a new heroin addict when they seen the PTC ad in the back pages of the indo paper...!

It's always the case, the lads who start buying the flying magzines in primary school, spend there teenage years on websites like pprune, flying in ireland etc and go to the odd airshow and hang out that one saturday each summer at there local grass strip who end up the most wisest when they hit late teens, early 20's and don't fall for common traps like PTC!

And, already, NFC's and Atlantics new integrated blah blah courses are starting to scare me because they are going down the PTC route!

They should stick to what they are good at.

LeftBase · 04-07-2012 12:14am

Jesus Nut wrote: »

Through there con-artist style of marketing, PTC managed to recruit those at most risk! A.K.A John and Mary who didn't know much about flying..They were innocent and easily taken in like a new heroin addict when they seen the PTC ad in the back pages of the indo paper...!

It's always the case, the lads who start buying the flying magzines in primary school, spend there teenage years on websites like pprune, flying in ireland etc and go to the odd airshow and hang out that one saturday each summer at there local grass strip who end up the most wisest when they hit late teens, early 20's and don't fall for common traps like PTC!

And, already, NFC's and Atlantics new integrated blah blah courses are starting to scare me because they are going down the PTC route!

They should stick to what they are good at.

Agree with every word of that message!

To my mind certain flight schools are slowly moving the knife into position behind their modular student's backs.....

Xpro · 04-07-2012 8:44am

Its on the rte news aswell, Irish Trainee pilots stranded in florida.
Very bad form,feel sorry for all the lads going trough this now

PTCSTUDENT123 · 04-07-2012 10:08am

heres some more info they cant stop me posting since its already on the news

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/irish-trainee-pilots-who-paid-85k-each-stranded-in-us-3158515.html

vicwatson · 04-07-2012 10:38am

RTE -

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0704/irish-trainee-pilots-stranded-in-florida.html?noredirection=true

jmayo · 04-07-2012 11:20am

Pilotdude5 wrote: »

Wow feel sorry for the students. A friend of mine did his training with a place in Canada that folded halfway through as well and he lost a lot of money. It's a horrible situation to be in lads. Never pay upfront

How many times has the last line been said here.

In this way I always think the modular route can be better because a student is not forced or coerced into forking out loads of money up front for training they may never get if the flight school goes out of business.

The problem with dodgy flight schools is they will take in students and their upfront course fees right till the day they go bust.

I can't see this turning out well.
BTW wasn't the big training school that went bust in the 80s also operating out of Waterford ?

LeftBase · 04-07-2012 11:49am

This statement raises a few questions for me:

The IAA has said in a statement it is aware of certain difficulties with the Florida Pilot Training College.
An officer of the IAA is in Florida to brief the students and to explore the possibility of allowing the students to continue their training in Florida or back in Ireland.

I should certainly hope that this does not mean that these students will be offered free flight training from another provider. This seems to be what they are angling at out there. While my sympathies are with them for their financial loss they did take a punt on an organisation anyone with a basic aviation background would tell you was dogey. If they gambled on a lame horse and lost nobody would have such sympathy.

If they all come home and train in Ireland for free I would imagine the loyal students of the FTOs here would have something to say about having to pay for their training, given that we turned down PTC to train modular when maybe we could have gone to PTC. Certainly I would object strongly to any concessions give to PTC students!

This whole incident could well see a decline in integrated students in Ireland. Would be for the better in my opinion!

Johnny901 · 04-07-2012 1:24pm

jmayo wrote: »

How many times has the last line been said here.

BTW wasn't the big training school that went bust in the 80s also operating out of Waterford ?

You are thinking of the European College of Aeronautics based in Cork ?

jmayo · 04-07-2012 1:47pm

Johnny901 wrote: »

You are thinking of the European College of Aeronautics based in Cork ?

I could swear there was a flight training centre in Waterford that went belly up.

troposphere · 04-07-2012 2:19pm

@Leftbase - thought I seen on PPrune yesterday (posts seem to be deleted now) that some of them were getting estimates to finish up their training. Also from the Independent article it sounds like the IAA are just saying that they will work with the students to make sure that the flight training they have already done will be credited to them.

troposphere · 04-07-2012 2:19pm

edit: double post

saspeir · 04-07-2012 3:05pm

LeftBase wrote: »

This statement raises a few questions for me:

I should certainly hope that this does not mean that these students will be offered free flight training from another provider. This seems to be what they are angling at out there. While my sympathies are with them for their financial loss they did take a punt on an organisation anyone with a basic aviation background would tell you was dogey. If they gambled on a lame horse and lost nobody would have such sympathy.

If they all come home and train in Ireland for free I would imagine the loyal students of the FTOs here would have something to say about having to pay for their training, given that we turned down PTC to train modular when maybe we could have gone to PTC. Certainly I would object strongly to any concessions give to PTC students!

This whole incident could well see a decline in integrated students in Ireland. Would be for the better in my opinion!

Do you really think the I.A.A. are going to fork out for free training? I'm pretty sure FIT won't either. Let's be realistic... They're screwed, end of. The only thing they can hope for is to have money, themselves, to finish and accreditation of integrated flying already done so that they don't have to pay for the extra 50hrs flying needed.

Cactus466 · 04-07-2012 3:10pm

I've being following this thread for the last few days and I genuinely do have sympathy for these people who have been caught up in all of this but....

How many times do you have to spell this out to some people? Do your research.
I know hindsight is a great thing but this school has had bad press for at least the last 4 years, maybe even more and weather some of this guys ignored this I don't know but seriously.

20 mins of research on any aviation forum and you'll read the horror stories of this place and you wouldn't put a "dog" through it let alone a man or woman.

Someone above "hit the nail on the head" when they mentioned it's young teen's wearing "rose tinted glasses" You got it one there!

I'm sorry you have been messed about, I really am!!! But if you had done a little bit of research before hand, you would never touch them!!!

king2 · 04-07-2012 3:24pm

LeftBase wrote: »

This statement raises a few questions for me:

I should certainly hope that this does not mean that these students will be offered free flight training from another provider. This seems to be what they are angling at out there. While my sympathies are with them for their financial loss they did take a punt on an organisation anyone with a basic aviation background would tell you was dogey. If they gambled on a lame horse and lost nobody would have such sympathy.

If they all come home and train in Ireland for free I would imagine the loyal students of the FTOs here would have something to say about having to pay for their training, given that we turned down PTC to train modular when maybe we could have gone to PTC. Certainly I would object strongly to any concessions give to PTC students!

This whole incident could well see a decline in integrated students in Ireland. Would be for the better in my opinion!

I doubt that would happen. who would pay? the tax payer? I dont think so. The IAA bloke is only talking through his arse to try to calm the situation. I wouldnt trust him anymore than edgeworth or ptc. He's probably a drinking buddy of edgeworth

saspeir · 04-07-2012 3:24pm

I'd like to know more about the relationship between PTC and Waterford Institute of Technology. I was looking to do part of modular training with PTC a while back. One of my checks on this company was their connection to WIT, which they had advertised online, giving it an air of respectability. From what I could gather PTC only rented rooms in the college for training.

If WIT didn't provide any of the training, from their lecturers, why were PTC allowed piggy back on their name and logo?

http://www.pilottrainingcollege.com/OurCourses/SchoolLeaverORGraduate/BScinAirlineTransportOperations.aspx

http://www.pilottrainingcollege.com/docs/BSc_%28Hons%29_in_Airline_Transport_Operations_Full-time.pdf

Having called WIT and the lady telling me it was nothing to do with them I stayed well clear of PTC.

If this is true, WIT need to be dealt with! They shouldn't be able to effectively sell respectability to these cowboys using our national institutions... It's wrong. If the parents of those training pilots saw WIT on the website I'm sure they thought PTC were fine to deal with...

cocoshovel · 04-07-2012 3:43pm

I wonder what will happen to students who weren't part of the 85K training course. Like the ones who were just doing ATPL exams etc and paid a good bit of money for them too?

LeftBase · 04-07-2012 5:09pm

cocoshovel wrote: »

I wonder what will happen to students who weren't part of the 85K training course. Like the ones who were just doing ATPL exams etc and paid a good bit of money for them too?

That would be through PTC Ireland, and officially that is still going, although it would seem not for long.

My above post about free training etc wasn't meant to suggest that they would get free training paid for by the taxpayer or the IAA or Dennis O'Brien or whoever else pays for stuff when people don't have the cash. I was just pointing out the fact that some of the PTC students I have seen comment on the net and the few I personally know have seemed to be looking for the training they paid for and some are hoping that somebody will pick up the contract and train them rest of the way without having to pay any more. This is fantasy and if this happened that training provider may be in hot water with it's current students.

If they do somehow have the money to go modular am I correct in assuming that they are not issued with a PPL on the PTC course and rather credited with the experience to go forward to ATPLs under the PTC program. This was an issue that put the tin hat on it for me with PTC when I was shopping around. Thinking of the structure I was told about there some may have to repeat PPL flight tests in order to be issued the physical licence and go modular/fly as a private pilot in Ireland/USA. Also many will only have 3 years to get the cash together to complete CPL/IRs before the ATPL resits kick in! Coupled with that they will need an extra 50hrs of time to go modular...not to mention those currently sitting the ATPLs who may time out in the 18 months.
I also am pretty sure that other integrated schools wont accept a half finished integrated student from another course as each school has their own structure that must be approved by the governing authority of their state.

A fine mess indeed dear Watson...

PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE(PTC) GOING OUT OF BUSINESS

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