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15-05-2012, 15:58   #1
vamos!
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RPT Hours

Has anybody heard of principals being directed to, or it being suggested to them that hours arising from retirements/staff leaving be divided up among potential new staff? I have heard of a lot of situations (including my own) where people are being offered crazily low hours. 11 hours seems to be rich pickings at the moment. I know some of it is down to subject combos and I have heard one principal admitting that it makes timetabling easier, but am looking to find out if this is likely to happen for a lot of jobs next year? I'm losing my hours and am trying to decide between going abroad or hoping for 15+ hours here!
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15-05-2012, 19:21   #2
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Haven't been told the allocation in our school yet. Honestly I do believe it depends from school to school. Some principals are great and look after their staff as best they can with regard to hours. Others as you said keep staff on low hours to make timetabling easier, neglecting to think that part time hours do not offer great career prospects in the long run.

There is something definitely wrong with the system when 11 hours is seen as a good contract.
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15-05-2012, 23:37   #3
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Race to the bottom
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17-05-2012, 19:43   #4
linguist
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Sorry to hear about your situation vamos. However, it seems unusual from a couple of perspectives:

1) No principal is able to offer anything to their RPTs yet because the redeployment scheme is ongoing. The received wisdom here is that if this is your first year on RPT, you have no rights and could be displaced. Those on their own hours with 2 or 3 years completed are regarded by the unions as having rights but the Dept disagrees. That said, the Dept didn't try to displace those people last year which suggests they don't fancy testing the position legally.
2) My understanding is that principals are still waiting for news on the appeals they submitted to their initial allocation. If you know different, please tell us.
3) It must depend on your subjects and their status in the school (compulsory, combinations, options...) If you're a Spanish teacher and there are 19 hours of Spanish next year, you are entitled to those hours surely. However, if they're reducing the number of class groups in English and the guidance counsellor is also an English teacher, that's where a problem might arise.

I'm always eager to hear other people's wisdom...very little talk about this so far this spring. What's going on?
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17-05-2012, 22:21   #5
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[QUOTE=linguist;78736941
2) My understanding is that principals are still waiting for news on the appeals they submitted to their initial allocation. If you know different, please tell us.
[/QUOTE]

Very little talk because of this. It is a complete disgrace that firstly schools are finishing in 2 weeks and no principal is able to tell part time staff anything.

They have no idea as to when they will even hear. I was first told the start of May, then end, now God knows when. This is the disgrace of it all.

Talk about redeployment of staff, maybe redeploy some into the directors office and sort your **** out so people can at least try and plan their lives past 2 weeks time. An absolute disgraceful way to run the country but way am I surprised
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17-05-2012, 23:13   #6
lestat21
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Speaking of teacher allocations, have people found that the number of retirements hasn't resulted in an equal allocation of teaching hours??

For example the number of teachers retiring is in double figures but the school is only allocated 2 teachers next year!!! Several teachers received CIDs (not sure if that makes a difference) but the number of CIDs is nowhere close to the number of retirements. Now I don't know the whole situation and understandably the school is planning to appeal this decision but how can they expect schools to cope..????
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18-05-2012, 01:31   #7
rainbowtrout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestat21 View Post
Speaking of teacher allocations, have people found that the number of retirements hasn't resulted in an equal allocation of teaching hours??

For example the number of teachers retiring is in double figures but the school is only allocated 2 teachers next year!!! Several teachers received CIDs (not sure if that makes a difference) but the number of CIDs is nowhere close to the number of retirements. Now I don't know the whole situation and understandably the school is planning to appeal this decision but how can they expect schools to cope..????
Retirements have no bearing on CIDs. CIDs are only awarded after four years which is completely independent of retirements.

Schools are not going to be able to hire as many teachers as have retired. Many have to fill hours for the guidance counsellor out of the main allocation, well they all do but if the GC is permanent they have to find them hours which were previously ex quota.
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18-05-2012, 19:01   #8
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Our allocation is down by 4.5 teacher equivalents for next year, our principal told us today, he has submitted appeals but that his current information....we have 6 people who are now very worried !!
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18-05-2012, 19:44   #9
gaeilgebeo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestat21 View Post
Speaking of teacher allocations, have people found that the number of retirements hasn't resulted in an equal allocation of teaching hours??

For example the number of teachers retiring is in double figures but the school is only allocated 2 teachers next year!!! Several teachers received CIDs (not sure if that makes a difference) but the number of CIDs is nowhere close to the number of retirements. Now I don't know the whole situation and understandably the school is planning to appeal this decision but how can they expect schools to cope..????
Quite a number of teachers who are retiring are A Post holders, therefore aren't on full hours. There have also been more cutbacks to allocation this year. We have had 5 retirements since September. We are still losing nearly the same number of non permanent teachers.
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18-05-2012, 20:10   #10
carolzoo
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god that's a lot. what size school is it approx or number of students? I gather it's a big school? we havn't been told yet our reduction. hope its not something similar.
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18-05-2012, 20:14   #11
gaeilgebeo
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Originally Posted by carolzoo View Post
god that's a lot. what size school is it approx or number of students? I gather it's a big school? we havn't been told yet our reduction. hope its not something similar.
We have just over 540 at the minute. Our Guidance C. is going to be teaching some mainstream hours next year. Language and Learning support hours have been cut for next year too. The teacher who does a lot of the resource will be teaching mainstream classes in his subject.
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18-05-2012, 20:32   #12
linguist
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gaeilgebeo: You say there have been five retirements since September but to quote you 'we are still losing nearly the same number of non-permanent teachers'. I don't mean to be pedantic, but that's not really clear.

Are you saying that you're down 10 teachers next year - the five retirements and five more. Or that five retired, were replaced and their replacements' jobs are now in doubt - in other words potentially down 5 teachers?

Either way, it seems to me that people are probably being excessively pessimistic here. The initial allocations were bad this year, particularly for DEIS schools or schools that up to now have had significant amounts of language support etc... But it seems to me that the initial allocations are bad every year one way or another and that any decent principal urges people not to worry until the results of the appeals come in. The Government has promised to phase in the cuts to the legacy DEIS posts as much as possible and to help schools worst affected. Let's give them a chance. I very much doubt that any school of 540 pupils will be down five teachers in September.
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18-05-2012, 20:49   #13
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Originally Posted by linguist View Post
gaeilgebeo: You say there have been five retirements since September but to quote you 'we are still losing nearly the same number of non-permanent teachers'. I don't mean to be pedantic, but that's not really clear.

Are you saying that you're down 10 teachers next year - the five retirements and five more. Or that five retired, were replaced and their replacements' jobs are now in doubt - in other words potentially down 5 teachers?

Either way, it seems to me that people are probably being excessively pessimistic here. The initial allocations were bad this year, particularly for DEIS schools or schools that up to now have had significant amounts of language support etc... But it seems to me that the initial allocations are bad every year one way or another and that any decent principal urges people not to worry until the results of the appeals come in. The Government has promised to phase in the cuts to the legacy DEIS posts as much as possible and to help schools worst affected. Let's give them a chance. I very much doubt that any school of 540 pupils will be down five teachers in September.

I assumed that it was 5 teachers not on full hours. Christ if it's 5 22hr posts none of us have a hope for next year!
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18-05-2012, 20:53   #14
gaeilgebeo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linguist View Post
gaeilgebeo: You say there have been five retirements since September but to quote you 'we are still losing nearly the same number of non-permanent teachers'. I don't mean to be pedantic, but that's not really clear.

Are you saying that you're down 10 teachers next year - the five retirements and five more. Or that five retired, were replaced and their replacements' jobs are now in doubt - in other words potentially down 5 teachers?

Either way, it seems to me that people are probably being excessively pessimistic here. The initial allocations were bad this year, particularly for DEIS schools or schools that up to now have had significant amounts of language support etc... But it seems to me that the initial allocations are bad every year one way or another and that any decent principal urges people not to worry until the results of the appeals come in. The Government has promised to phase in the cuts to the legacy DEIS posts as much as possible and to help schools worst affected. Let's give them a chance. I very much doubt that any school of 540 pupils will be down five teachers in September.
We had 5 teachers retire since September.
We are still losing nearly the same number(nearly 5) of non permanent teachers. Is this clearer for you?

Yes we are down 4.2 teachers for September. We have over 540 students at the minute. 114 are leaving in 2 weeks. We have 84 first years at the minute. The number of incoming first years is even lower again. This all affects teacher allocation.
Our numbers have fallen.
There have been cut backs.
Some of our retirements have not been replaced.
We have cut 2 subjects from Leaving Cert.
We have made another subject at Junior Cert non-compulsory.
We are cutting a leaving cert programme next year.
Do you think schools of 540 are exempt from these cutbacks?

I do not appreciate your insinuation that I am being "excessively pessimistic" and that you "doubt" what I have said is true.

You have every right to be optimistic about the job situation and "give them a chance", but don't dismiss the advice or opinions of others.
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18-05-2012, 20:54   #15
gaeilgebeo
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Originally Posted by Musicmental85 View Post
I assumed that it was 5 teachers not on full hours. Christ if it's 5 22hr posts none of us have a hope for next year!
Not all of the non-permanent staff are on full hours.
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