Map of Dublin City Council Boundaries ?????

Ernest · 02-05-2012 12:05pm #1

Does anyone know where I can find a map (on-line of course) showing the boundaries of Dublin City Council with Fingal and South County councils. I mean a detailed map showing boundaries at street/road levels.
You would expect this to be easily available from Dublin City Council website but not so. Similarly not with Fingal whose website contains only a vague "toytown" kind of map.
What is the problem with these people????

Anyway can anyone help?

markpb · 02-05-2012 12:19pm

Yup. Go to maps.google.com and search for Dublin (nothing else, just Dublin). It'll draw a red border around the city council boundaries. You can do the same for South Dublin, Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown.

Ernest · 02-05-2012 3:37pm

markpb wrote: »

Yup. Go to maps.google.com and search for Dublin (nothing else, just Dublin). It'll draw a red border around the city council boundaries. You can do the same for South Dublin, Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown.

Yes It gives a very thick pink border around an area that MIGHT be Dublin City Council's territory (which seems to exclude the Phoenix Park and the Bull Island).
Beyond this pink outlined area there is no clue as to what Council controls what area. So for example what is South County Council's and what is Dun Laoghaire's? No clues given.

Anyway, it should not be for Google Maps to be explaining to us in Dublin which of the four gerrymandered areas are controlled by which of the four artificial entities that Fianna Fail established to quadruple jobs and costs in local government in the Dublin area. Logic and economics would suggest that there should be ONE local authority for the Greater Dublin Area - not FOUR.

Getting back to my original query, it is truly extraordinary that such a council territory map should not be readily and easily available to the citizens of Dublin on the websites of each local authority. In the case of Dublin City Council's website, at least, it is most definitely not. Why not????

markpb · 02-05-2012 4:14pm

Ernest wrote: »

Yes It gives a very thick pink border around an area that MIGHT be Dublin City Council's territory (which seems to exclude the Phoenix Park and the Bull Island).

I don't know about Bull Island (Wikipedia says it's mostly owned by DCC) but Phoenix Park is owned by OPW, not Dublin City Council so the map is probably correct to exclude it.

Beyond this pink outlined area there is no clue as to what Council controls what area. So for example what is South County Council's and what is Dun Laoghaire's? No clues given.

If you zoom in a little, a dotted grey line shows you exactly where the boundary is. (I've attached a pic that shows it). Oddly enough, it excludes the IDA owned Clonshaugh Industrial estate from Dublin City but doesn't appear to include it in Final county.

Getting back to my original query, it is truly extraordinary that such a council territory map should not be readily and easily available to the citizens of Dublin on the websites of each local authority. In the case of Dublin City Council's website, at least, it is most definitely not. Why not????

Edit: Here is a map from the Dublin.ie website. It's intended to show amenities in the area but it also shows the boundary. Interestingly enough, it includes Bull Island, Phoenix Park and the elusive Clonshaugh Ind. Est.

saa · 02-05-2012 4:19pm

The county councils are very understaffed but if you had a good reason for needing them I'm sure someone would take time out to get something for you, not those ones on the front desk though you'd have to find a contact for instance if your query was any way related someone from heritage would have access to more detailed information.

BeerNut · 02-05-2012 4:31pm

The South Dublin CC planning website has very clearly marked boundaries on its map. On Fingal's, if you go into a specific application, view it on a map and zoom out, the boundaries are also marked.

Ernest · 02-05-2012 4:32pm

saa wrote: »

The county councils are very understaffed but if you had a good reason for needing them I'm sure someone would take time out to get something for you, not those ones on the front desk though you'd have to find a contact for instance if your query was any way related someone from heritage would have access to more detailed information.

Why should I need a "good reason" to get this information?!!?
It should be open and available to all without, for example, going up to Swords to the offices of Fingal Council or without braving the traffic to get to Wood Quay just to get this basic information. Why is it not clearly and unambiguously on the website of Dublin City Council (and the others too) ?.

Incidentally the website of Dublin City Council is one of the worst around as regards lack of information and navigation. Lots about the City Manager himself, though!

BeerNut · 02-05-2012 4:35pm

Ernest wrote: »

Why is it not clearly and unambiguously on the website of Dublin City Council (and the others too) ?.

Because the vast majority of us already know where we live.

Ernest · 02-05-2012 4:41pm

BeerNut wrote: »

Because the vast majority of us already know where we live.

And, I suppose, that's supposed to be a smart rejoinder?
Anyway I'd imagine Michael Healy-Rae would find it clever.....

charlemont · 02-05-2012 4:49pm

BeerNut wrote: »

Because the vast majority of us already know where we live.

That's just a lazy and stupid answer to the man's question. Bull island and Phoenix park are included in Dublin City. Strangely Howth was taken from Dublin City and included into Fingal.

Google Dublin City boundary and use then Images, An image from the "Survey and Mapping Division" is there and that corresponds with the city limits.

http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/PublishingImages/Dublin_City.jpg

BeerNut · 02-05-2012 5:04pm

Ernest wrote: »

And, I suppose, that's supposed to be a smart rejoinder?

No, that's a genuine answer to your question. It's certainly not something I've ever needed. If I ever wanted to find out where a precise boundary was, there are ways to find out. Several people have posted helpful online maps which go a long way to answer any specific question about which bit of Dublin is under which local authority.

If you have a specific question about a specific place, I'm sure there are people here who can help you with that too.

But an overall map of the county showing all the local authority intersections sounds like something only an large-scale infrastructure planner would require.

tricky D · 02-05-2012 5:27pm

charlemont wrote: »

http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/PublishingImages/Dublin_City.jpg

The map above and http://gis.sdublincoco.ie/historical_mapping/ weren't so hard to find.

Gumbo · 02-05-2012 10:37pm

Ernest wrote: »

Why should I need a "good reason" to get this information?!!?
It should be open and available to all without, for example, going up to Swords to the offices of Fingal Council or without braving the traffic to get to Wood Quay just to get this basic information. Why is it not clearly and unambiguously on the website of Dublin City Council (and the others too) ?.

Incidentally the website of Dublin City Council is one of the worst around as regards lack of information and navigation. Lots about the City Manager himself, though!

Because the OS maps which the data is on is copy Righted to Ordnance Survey Ireland. DCC cannot simply hand out these maps as they would be liable for copyright.

OP, what do you need the map for?
Im sure if you asked nicely to the relevant department, you may get a friendly technician that could help out

charlemont wrote: »

That's just a lazy and stupid answer to the man's question. Bull island and Phoenix park are included in Dublin City. Strangely Howth was taken from Dublin City and included into Fingal.

Phoenix Park is 100% not in control by Dublin City Council, it is 100% operated and maintained by the OPW. DCC have no say what so ever with what goes on in the park.

BeerNut wrote: »

But an overall map of the county showing all the local authority intersections sounds like something only an large-scale infrastructure planner would require.

+1
the OP wants detailed street level boundary detail, but this map is not even legible at A0 size print. The OP needs to explain what he wants and what area so that people (public or DCC) will help him.

delta_bravo · 03-05-2012 8:33am

I had to make these myself before for a thesis. They should be accurate

Fingal
Dublin City
South Dublin
Dun Laoghaire Rathdown

LXFlyer · 03-05-2012 11:18am

Ernest wrote: »

Yes It gives a very thick pink border around an area that MIGHT be Dublin City Council's territory (which seems to exclude the Phoenix Park and the Bull Island).
Beyond this pink outlined area there is no clue as to what Council controls what area. So for example what is South County Council's and what is Dun Laoghaire's? No clues given.

Anyway, it should not be for Google Maps to be explaining to us in Dublin which of the four gerrymandered areas are controlled by which of the four artificial entities that Fianna Fail established to quadruple jobs and costs in local government in the Dublin area. Logic and economics would suggest that there should be ONE local authority for the Greater Dublin Area - not FOUR.

Getting back to my original query, it is truly extraordinary that such a council territory map should not be readily and easily available to the citizens of Dublin on the websites of each local authority. In the case of Dublin City Council's website, at least, it is most definitely not. Why not????

That is the DCC boundary.

Type in Fingal, or Dun Laoghaire Rathdown or South Dublin on Google maps and their respective areas will come up on the map.

Ernest · 03-05-2012 1:38pm

kceire wrote: »

Because the OS maps which the data is on is copy Righted to Ordnance Survey Ireland. DCC cannot simply hand out these maps as they would be liable for copyright.

OP, what do you need the map for?
Im sure if you asked nicely to the relevant department, you may get a friendly technician that could help out

Phoenix Park is 100% not in control by Dublin City Council, it is 100% operated and maintained by the OPW. DCC have no say what so ever with what goes on in the park.

+1
the OP wants detailed street level boundary detail, but this map is not even legible at A0 size print. The OP needs to explain what he wants and what area so that people (public or DCC) will help him.

I think kceire may be missing some of the point here.

Its not about "asking nicely" or explaining exactly why I want this information.
What is being discussed here is information that is, or should be, in the public domain: what administrative area each of the four local authorities control and where are the exact boundaries between them. This is hardly restricted information or should not be restricted. Every citizen surely has the right to this simple information. In this context, words like "transparency", "accountability" and "freedom of information" come to mind.

People may want to know the boundaries between counties for all kinds of reasons and should not have to justify what the reason might be. It could be anything from Planning Applications to reporting broken street lights but it should not be some kind of closely guarded secret as to where the boundaries between local authority control areas are.

This is particularly so in the case in Dublin where there are no natural boundaries between the four somewhat contrived territories into which the Greater Dublin Area was artificially divided by a previous government.

The normal way of conveying boundaries is by means of a map - hence my initial query on this thread.

BeerNut · 03-05-2012 1:48pm

Ernest wrote: »

What is being discussed here is information that is, or should be, in the public domain: what administrative area each of the four local authorities control and where are the exact boundaries between them.

The information is in the public domain. It has been linked to in this thread. Your problem is with the presentation of that information, not the information itself.

Ernest wrote: »

it should not be some kind of closely guarded secret as to where the boundaries between local authority control areas are.

Many of the routes across the boundaries are signed as such. It is not a closely guarded secret if there's a giant sign saying "Welcome to County Fingal".

Ernest wrote: »

the four somewhat contrived territories into which the Greater Dublin Area was artificially divided by a previous government.

All such territories are artificial and contrived. They do not exist in nature. The county of Dublin was no less contrived nor artifical an entity.

Ernest wrote: »

The normal way of conveying boundaries is by means of a map - hence my initial query on this thread.

And hence the many people who have provided you with maps in this thread, several of which are official electronic publications of the local authorities themselves.

Gumbo · 03-05-2012 1:51pm

Ernest wrote: »

I think kceire may be missing some of the point here.

Its not about "asking nicely" or explaining exactly why I want this information.
What is being discussed here is information that is, or should be, in the public domain: what administrative area each of the four local authorities control and where are the exact boundaries between them. This is hardly restricted information or should not be restricted. Every citizen surely has the right to this simple information. In this context, words like "transparency", "accountability" and "freedom of information" come to mind.

People may want to know the boundaries between counties for all kinds of reasons and should not have to justify what the reason might be. It could be anything from Planning Applications to reporting broken street lights but it should not be some kind of closely guarded secret as to where the boundaries between local authority control areas are.

This is particularly so in the case in Dublin where there are no natural boundaries between the four somewhat contrived territories into which the Greater Dublin Area was artificially divided by a previous government.

The normal way of conveying boundaries is by means of a map - hence my initial query on this thread.

But it is transparent and there in front of you. Try this simple task :

go to yahoo
search for www.dublincity.ie (city council website)
in the search bar, type "boundary", you ar given this page - http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/Pages/SurveyandMappingDivision.aspx
you are given this map - http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/PublishingImages/Dublin_City.jpg

Gumbo · 03-05-2012 1:53pm

Similarily, here is Fingal County councils Boundry Map :

http://maps.fingalcoco.ie/LocationPublisher/Layout1.aspx

you can zoom right in to street level etc etc and its interactive.

Gumbo · 03-05-2012 8:41pm

Jesus, dont know why i didnt think of this earlier, but OP, these maps are detailed and available to the public :

http://www.dublincity.ie/Planning/DublinCityDevelopmentPlan/Pages/CityDevelopmentPlan.aspx

The whole city broke down map by map into 8 in total, which outlines the boundary at street level.

Also here is Fingal county councils - http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/FingalDevelopmentPlan2011-2017/Maps/

I assume DLRCC and SDCC have the same systems set up.

Victor · 04-05-2012 2:38pm

markpb wrote: »

Yup. Go to maps.google.com and search for Dublin (nothing else, just Dublin). It'll draw a red border around the city council boundaries. You can do the same for South Dublin, Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown.

Those maps are utterly useless. It seems to approximate to continuous urban area, but is quite inconsistent. I can only assume it is computer generated from incomplete addresses, with no sense in the programming and no human supervision or local knowledge.

markpb wrote: »

I don't know about Bull Island (Wikipedia says it's mostly owned by DCC) but Phoenix Park is owned by OPW, not Dublin City Council so the map is probably correct to exclude it.

Think this through. The city council don't own my home, but it is within the city council area. The city council don't own the Phoenix Park, but it is within the city council area.

If you zoom in a little, a dotted grey line shows you exactly where the boundary is. (I've attached a pic that shows it). Oddly enough, it excludes the IDA owned Clonshaugh Industrial estate from Dublin City but doesn't appear to include it in Final county.

Again hit and miss by Google. Accurate on average, but not precise.

Edit: Here is a map from the Dublin.ie website. It's intended to show amenities in the area but it also shows the boundary. Interestingly enough, it includes Bull Island, Phoenix Park and the elusive Clonshaugh Ind. Est.

That is correct.

Ernest wrote: »

Yes It gives a very thick pink border around an area that MIGHT be Dublin City Council's territory (which seems to exclude the Phoenix Park and the Bull Island).
Beyond this pink outlined area there is no clue as to what Council controls what area. So for example what is South County Council's and what is Dun Laoghaire's? No clues given.

The Liffey is the border between Fingal and South Dublin. UCD and the Dodder form the southern border of the city. After that, I should be easy enough. This shows the general layout of the councils: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Island_of_Ireland_location_map_South_Dublin.svg

Anyway, it should not be for Google Maps to be explaining to us in Dublin which of the four gerrymandered areas are controlled by which of the four artificial entities that Fianna Fail established to quadruple jobs and costs in local government in the Dublin area. Logic and economics would suggest that there should be ONE local authority for the Greater Dublin Area - not FOUR.

Eh, didn't we just have a big planning tribunal, largely based on the corrupt old Dublin county Council?

Getting back to my original query, it is truly extraordinary that such a council territory map should not be readily and easily available to the citizens of Dublin on the websites of each local authority. In the case of Dublin City Council's website, at least, it is most definitely not. Why not????

There are loads of maps available. You just need to use the right one.

kceire wrote: »

Phoenix Park is 100% not in control by Dublin City Council, it is 100% operated and maintained by the OPW. DCC have no say what so ever with what goes on in the park.

If the OPW want to build something in the park, they need planning permission from the council. If they want to hold a public event, they need a licence from the council. If the want a drinking water supply, they get it from the council.

the OP wants detailed street level boundary detail, but this map is not even legible at A0 size print. The OP needs to explain what he wants and what area so that people (public or DCC) will help him.

Look at the maps here: http://www.dublincity.ie/Planning/DublinCityDevelopmentPlan/Pages/CityDevelopmentPlan.aspx

Gumbo · 04-05-2012 3:21pm

Victor wrote: »

Look at the maps here: http://www.dublincity.ie/Planning/DublinCityDevelopmentPlan/Pages/CityDevelopmentPlan.aspx

Yes, i posted them maps yesterday in post number 20, just above yours

Victor · 04-05-2012 5:28pm

From the Eastlink Bridge, heading east, north, west and east along the coastline as far as the Wooden Bridge to Bull Island;

South east along Bull Wall;

North along Dollymount strand, following the coastline to Kilbarrack;

West along Kilbarrack Road to the railway bridge;

North along the Railway to the River Mayne;

West along the River Mayne to the M1-M50 junction;

South along the east side of the M50 (formerly M1) Santry Bypass to Coolock Lane interchange;

Through the centre of the Coolock Lane interchange and west along the modern alignment of Coolock Lane;

South along the Swords Road to Santry Avenue ;

West along Santry Avenue and St; Margaret's Road (Ballymun end);

South along Jamestown Road;

West along the southern boundary of the Morgan Park Industrial Estate;

West along the northern boundary of the the houses at McKelvey Avenue;

West and South along field boundaries to Ratoath Road;

South along Ratoath Road to Dunsink Lane;

South along stream and western boundary of Westbank and Westwood housing estates to River Tolka;

West along River Tolka to Scribblestown Lane;

South along original alignment of Ashtown Road to Royal Canal;

South along modern alignment of Ashtown Road to Navan Road;

South and west along Castleknock Road to Castleknock Gate;

South along the western boundary of the Phoenix Park (excluding Farmleigh) to Knockmaroon Gate;

East along the southern boundary of the Phoenix Park the northwestern boundary of Isolde Gardens;

South along the the northwestern boundary of Isolde Gardens to the River Liffey;

West along the River Liffey to the western boundary of the Glenaulin estate;

South along the the western boundary of the Glenaulin estate to Lucan Road;

West along Lucan Road to the western boundary of California Hills Park;

South along the western boundary of California Hills Park and in a straight line along the western boundary of the schools at Drumfinn Road;

West along the rear of the houses at Gurteen Park, Drumfinn Avenue and South along the rear of the houses at Cleggan Park to Ballyfermot Road;

West along Ballyfermot Road to the northwestern boundary of Cherry Orchard Hospital

South west along the northwestern boundary of Cherry Orchard Hospital to the eastern boundary of the M50

South along the eastern boundary of the M50 to the Grand Canal

East along the Grand Canal to the Sixth Lock

South and South west along the boundary between the industrial units at Bluebell Avenue and along the rear boundaries of the houses at Camac Park to John F Kennedy Drive;

South east along John F Kennedy Drive to Camac Park to Old Naas Road

South along Old Naas Road to Naas Road;

South along the boundary between the industrial units at Naas Road, Walkinstown Avenue and Long Mile Road;

West and South along the western boundary of Walkinstown Avenue Park;

South along the rear boundary of the houses at Walkinstown Crescent to Greenhills Road;

East along Greenhills Road, Cromwell's Fort Road and Kimmage Road West to Fortfield Road;

South along Fortfield Road to Templeogue Road

East along Templeogue Road to the western boundary of Bushy Park

South along the the western boundary of Bushy Park to the River Dodder;

East along River Dodder to Clonskeagh

East along the boundary between Beech Hill and Richview sports club

East and South along the northern boundary of the UCD campus to Stillorgan Road;

South along Stillorgan Road to Cranford Court;

East along the southern boundary of Elm Park Golf Course;

East along Bellevue Park Avenue and Bellevue Avenue to Rock Road and to the sea;

North along the coastline to the South Bull Wall

East along the southern edge of South Bull Wall to Poolbeg Lighthouse;

West along the southern edge of Dublin Harbour

and hence to the start point. :0

Ernest · 04-05-2012 5:51pm

Victor wrote: »

From the Eastlink Bridge, heading east, north, west and east along the coastline as far as the Wooden Bridge to Bull Island;

South east along Bull Wall;

North along Dollymount strand, following the coastline to Kilbarrack;

West along Kilbarrack Road to the railway bridge;

North along the Railway to the River Mayne;

West along the River Mayne to the M1-M50 junction;

South along the east side of the M50 (formerly M1) Santry Bypass to Coolock Lane interchange;

Through the centre of the Coolock Lane interchange and west along the modern alignment of Coolock Lane;

South along the Swords Road to Santry Avenue ;

West along Santry Avenue and St; Margaret's Road (Ballymun end);

South along Jamestown Road;

West along the southern boundary of the Morgan Park Industrial Estate;

West along the northern boundary of the the houses at McKelvey Avenue;

West and South along field boundaries to Ratoath Road;

South along Ratoath Road to Dunsink Lane;

South along stream and western boundary of Westbank and Westwood housing estates to River Tolka;

West along River Tolka to Scribblestown Lane;

South along original alignment of Ashtown Road to Royal Canal;

South along modern alignment of Ashtown Road to Navan Road;

South and west along Castleknock Road to Castleknock Gate;

South along the western boundary of the Phoenix Park (excluding Farmleigh) to Knockmaroon Gate;

East along the southern boundary of the Phoenix Park the northwestern boundary of Isolde Gardens;

South along the the northwestern boundary of Isolde Gardens to the River Liffey;

West along the River Liffey to the western boundary of the Glenaulin estate;

South along the the western boundary of the Glenaulin estate to Lucan Road;

West along Lucan Road to the western boundary of California Hills Park;

South along the western boundary of California Hills Park and in a straight line along the western boundary of the schools at Drumfinn Road;

West along the rear of the houses at Gurteen Park, Drumfinn Avenue and South along the rear of the houses at Cleggan Park to Ballyfermot Road;

West along Ballyfermot Road to the northwestern boundary of Cherry Orchard Hospital

South west along the northwestern boundary of Cherry Orchard Hospital to the eastern boundary of the M50

South along the eastern boundary of the M50 to the Grand Canal

East along the Grand Canal to the Sixth Lock

South and South west along the boundary between the industrial units at Bluebell Avenue and along the rear boundaries of the houses at Camac Park to John F Kennedy Drive;

South east along John F Kennedy Drive to Camac Park to Old Naas Road

South along Old Naas Road to Naas Road;

South along the boundary between the industrial units at Naas Road, Walkinstown Avenue and Long Mile Road;

West and South along the western boundary of Walkinstown Avenue Park;

South along the rear boundary of the houses at Walkinstown Crescent to Greenhills Road;

East along Greenhills Road, Cromwell's Fort Road and Kimmage Road West to Fortfield Road;

South along Fortfield Road to Templeogue Road

East along Templeogue Road to the western boundary of Bushy Park

South along the the western boundary of Bushy Park to the River Dodder;

East along River Dodder to Clonskeagh

East along the boundary between Beech Hill and Richview sports club

East and South along the northern boundary of the UCD campus to Stillorgan Road;

South along Stillorgan Road to Cranford Court;

East along the southern boundary of Elm Park Golf Course;

East along Bellevue Park Avenue and Bellevue Avenue to Rock Road and to the sea;

North along the coastline to the South Bull Wall

East along the southern edge of South Bull Wall to Poolbeg Lighthouse;

West along the southern edge of Dublin Harbour

and hence to the start point. :0

Quote from WHAT??
Describing WHAT??

Ernest · 04-05-2012 5:56pm

delta_bravo wrote: »

I had to make these myself before for a thesis. They should be accurate

Fingal
Dublin City
South Dublin
Dun Laoghaire Rathdown

Actually these maps are pretty good. Many thanks, delta bravo.

Gumbo · 04-05-2012 11:19pm

Ernest wrote: »

Actually these maps are pretty good. Many thanks, delta bravo.

Dont think the Dublin City Boundary is correct on those maps.

The boundary around Ballymun and surrounds is different to what i recall?

Victor · 05-05-2012 6:20am

Ernest wrote: »

Quote from WHAT??

I wrote it myself.

Describing WHAT??

My daily perambulation.

GeneralLeeBike · 01-10-2012 12:52am

The Dublin city / county boundary in Terenure is on the middle of Fortfield Road. That's why the road surface isn't great, because the city and county council can't decide who's going to resurface the road.

aliveandkicking · 01-10-2012 2:52pm

Detailed Dublin City boundary map is located in the exact position you would expect to find such a thing - on the DCC website.

Go to dublincity.ie

Click Services - Your Council - Local Area Services

This brings you to a page where you can download this very detailed map

http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/LocalAreaServices/Documents/DCC5areasmap_sml.pdf

imme · 02-10-2012 3:11pm

www.dublin.ie

Gumbo · 02-10-2012 7:00pm

GeneralLeeBike wrote: »

The Dublin city / county boundary in Terenure is on the middle of Fortfield Road. That's why the road surface isn't great, because the city and county council can't decide who's going to resurface the road.

aliveandkicking wrote: »

Detailed Dublin City boundary map is located in the exact position you would expect to find such a thing - on the DCC website.

Go to dublincity.ie

Click Services - Your Council - Local Area Services

This brings you to a page where you can download this very detailed map

http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/LocalAreaServices/Documents/DCC5areasmap_sml.pdf

imme wrote: »

www.dublin.ie

Guys, im sure the OP got the map in May, or at least doesnt care anymore

Map of Dublin City Council Boundaries ?????

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