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Laptop for Modelling

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  • 06-04-2012 11:37pm
    #1
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭


    Hi All,

    I'm wondering if you'd be able to point me in the right direction. The latest release of software I use for modelling has been released and my current machine is very sluggish. My software vendor recommended a Dell Precision, but with past experiences of poor customer service (inspiron) I don't really want to use them. The cost of the dell unit is pretty high. As I move about a lot a laptop is necessary.

    The specs I require:

    Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Enterprise, Ultimate, Professional, or Home Premium edition
    Intel® Core™ i7-2600 quad-core processor (3.8 GHz, 8 MB cache ) or equivalent AMD processor
    16 GB RAM (or more)
    1,980 x 1,200 monitor with true color
    2 GB (or more) DirectX 10-capable graphics card with Shader Model 3.

    Anyone be able to help? Am I really looking at €2.5k+ for a laptop with this spec?


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    #2
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    1,980 x 1,200 monitor with true color
    Jaysus....none of the regular sellers have them anyway combined with other spec.


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    #3
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    Hold on, the precision range don't go that high either,

    Did you mean 1920 x 1080?

    eg.

    http://www.computeruniverse.net/products/e90430594/asus-x5msn-sz236v-w7hp64.asp (qwertz keyboard)

    http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/


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    #4
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Intel® Core™ i7-2600 quad-core processor (3.8 GHz, 8 MB cache ) or equivalent AMD processor

    This just made my day. :D
    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    My software vendor recommended a Dell Precision, but with past experiences of poor customer service (inspiron) I don't really want to use them. The cost of the dell unit is pretty high.

    I'm with your software vendor, the Precision is a thing of beauty. ;)

    Their business support is quite different from consumer products. You can't compare the quality and service you'll get with a Precision to an Inspiron, they're worlds apart.

    And yes, they are quite expensive (as are high-end Thinkpads from Lenovo) but since the laptop will see a lot of travelling, I'd settle for nothing less.
    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Am I really looking at €2.5k+ for a laptop with this spec?

    Not quite but close. You're looking for 16 GB RAM and a GPU with 2 GB RAM, the M460 Essential in this configuration will cost you €1,929 + VAT and delivery... ~ €2,400.

    Edit: You want the i7 w 8 MB cache?* It will bring up the price to €2,153 + VAT and delivery... ~ €2,700.

    You can save €180 on either configuration, if you choose the NVIDIA Quadro 1000M w 2 GB RAM over the Quadro 2000M

    * this would rule out the ASUS as well.


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    #5
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    _AVALANCHE_ wrote: »
    http://www.computeruniverse.net/products/e90430594/asus-x5msn-sz236v-w7hp64.asp (qwertz keyboard)

    Holy sheeet... I'd take that even if it came with a Chinese keyboard. :D

    But then ASUS isn't exactly known for perks like on-site NBD support. And when it comes to build quality, ASUS isn't really up there with Lenovo ior Dell.


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    #6
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    I just had a look around at Lenovo and HP.

    Lenovo's Thinkpad T520 has only 8 GB RAM (cannot be upgraded according to crucial.com) and their NVIDIA NVS 4200M Graphics has only 1 GB RAM. Price €2,000 with a 8 MB L3 CPU (i7-2860QM).

    HP's Elitebook 8560w comes with 8 GB (can be upgraded to 16 GB according crucial.com, $240) and the same Quadro 200M w 2 GB RAM as the Precision M460. Price €2,800 with a 8 MB L3 CPU (i7-2860QM).

    Above prices incl. VAT

    It seems your options are rather slim (HP or Dell), unless you want to settle for a 6MB L3 CPU.


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    #7
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    I found this Sony Vaio VPC-F at Amazon for $2,600 (greatly reduced, it sells elsewhere for well over $3,000)... even has a 512 GB SSD but the Geforce 540M only has 1 GB RAM.

    If you can buy it anywhere in Ireland, I wouldn't know.


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    #8
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    There is a MSI 17" Laptop for €2,533 over at komplett, with SSD & HDD and certainly the best GPU by a country mile but unfortunately only 6MB L3. ;)

    Here is the same model with a GT 570M w 1.5 GB RAM for €2,069

    They're similarly priced and specced as Dell's Alienware gaming laptops, which also have no option for any 8MB L3 processors.

    Your "problem" really is the the 8 MB L3 cache CPU: the Intel Core i7-2860QM alone costs 700 dollar, the Intel Core i7-2960XM costs 1,100 dollar.


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    #9
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Thanks Avalanche, Torqay!

    I think I'm going to go with the Precision. Its expensive but if it lasts a few years I hope it will be worth it. The NBD service and robustness of the machines are important to me too.

    I suppose I can holiday at home this year...


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    #10
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Thanks Avalanche, Torqay!

    I think I'm going to go with the Precision. Its expensive but if it lasts a few years I hope it will be worth it. The NBD service and robustness of the machines are important to me too.

    I suppose I can holiday at home this year...

    If you choose the 6 MB L3 Core i7 and the Quadro 1000 (which has also 2 GB RAM), you'll save almost 500 Euro and still have a top performance (they're not that slow, you know). If you go for the high end CPU, you will never see the money for the upgrades again, should you decide to sell the maschine in 3 or 4 years. It only makes sense if you're going to use it until it will fall apart. ;)

    Also consider a solid state disk, platter hard disk drives really don't like travelling, they're usually the first part to go south. And the SSD performance is a bonus. An after market upgrade is cheaper than buying it from DELL.


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    #11
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Intel® Core™ i7-2600 quad-core processor (3.8 GHz, 8 MB cache ) or equivalent AMD processor
    I didn't notice the 8MB Cache bit last nite, who said you needed that? What Software is it your're going be using?

    Must be fierce technical drawings?


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    #12
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    _AVALANCHE_ wrote: »
    I didn't notice the 8MB Cache bit last nite, who said you needed that? What Software is it your're going be using?

    Must be fierce technical drawings?

    The software is called Revit, I work with large models so I was recommended to get the top end spec. Its the rendering engine I think that needs all the power.

    Thanks for all the help!


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    #13
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    The software is called Revit


    Here's a list with Autodesk-certified computers that meet all requirements for Revit (a pretty short list, I must say). ;)


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    #14
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    Torqay wrote: »
    Here's a list with Autodesk-certified computers that meet all requirements for Revit (a pretty short list, I must say). ;)
    LOL! I was literally just looking at that!

    Spec in first post is just the recommended spec aswell!:eek:

    Tank of a program to run!


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    #15
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    _AVALANCHE_ wrote: »
    LOL! I was literally just looking at that!

    Spec in first post is just the recommended spec aswell!:eek:

    Tank of a program to run!

    Well, the better of the two Precision laptops only has a 4 MB L3 Core i7 CPU, so I'd say a 6MB chip is fine, the 8 MB CPU is really driving the price up.


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    #16
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    This model can be specced out with

    Chassis & Display
    Vortex Series: 15.6" Matte 95% Gamut LED Widescreen (1920x1080)

    Processor (CPU)
    Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Mobile Processor i7-2860QM (2.50GHz) 8MB

    Memory (RAM)
    16GB SAMSUNG 1333MHz SODIMM DDR3 MEMORY (4 x 4GB)

    Graphics Card
    2GB AMD® Radeon® HD 6990M - DirectX® 11 (15.6" Vortex II)

    Memory - Hard Disk
    750GB WD SCORPIO BLACK WD7500BPKT, SATA 3 Gb/s, 16MB CACHE (7200 rpm)

    For €1939 delivered....8M Cache, up to 3.60 GHz.

    http://ark.intel.com/products/53476/Intel-Core-i7-2860QM-Processor-%288M-Cache-2_50-GHz%29


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    #17
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    _AVALANCHE_ wrote: »
    This model can be specced out with




    For €1939 delivered....8M Cache, up to 3.60 GHz.

    http://ark.intel.com/products/53476/Intel-Core-i7-2860QM-Processor-%288M-Cache-2_50-GHz%29

    Problem is the graphics card, only a few workstation GPUs (Quadro or FirePro) meet all requirements for Revit (of course, it will run a Geforce 6 w 128 MB RAM). ;)


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    #18
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    Torqay wrote: »
    Problem is the graphics card, only a few workstation GPUs (Quadro or FirePro) meet all requirements for Revit (of course, it will run a Geforce 6 w 128 MB RAM). ;)
    I know good few folk with gaming type GPUs bought with CAD in mind and never a problem....I've no experience with the drawing GPUs though....

    Very similar,

    AMD FirePro™ V5900
    AMD Radeon™ HD 6990M
    • DirectX®: 11.0
    • OpenGL®: 4.1
    • Shader Model: 5.0
    http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=FirePro+V5900
    http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+6990M


    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/syscert/card?siteID=123112&catID=18254205&id=18844534&product=33&os=8192&hw=218 <-->no real way to compare 6990 to this.




    Came across 4 more sager/clevo sellers in the UK (like PC Specialist) didn't get a chance to go through them yet.

    http://www.novatech.co.uk/
    http://www.pwnpcs.co.uk/
    http://www.wired2fire.co.uk/
    http://www.rockdirect.com/

    I see pwnpcs has the http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-675M.70785.0.html in some models though.


    May start a thread and see if anyone has used them.


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    #19
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    _AVALANCHE_ wrote: »
    I know good few folk with gaming type GPUs bought with CAD in mind and never a problem.

    I'd really ask around if Revit works properly with a card that is not officially supported or certified before I buy (plenty CAD forums around). If the rendering is done through the CPU (which may well happen if the GPU is not supported), you might end up with some very expensive piece of dead weight.


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    #20
    Jaafa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Jaafa


    Seeing as computerunvierse was mentioned before in this I have a quick question to ask.

    I know the keyboard is qwertz which isn't a problem, but the site states the operating system and software will be in German too, anyway of changing this to English easily? Or do I have to buy a a new license? This is also B-stock, so one of the key's or something, may have already been activated.


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    #21
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Jaafa wrote: »
    the site states the operating system and software will be in German too, anyway of changing this to English easily?

    Reinstall with any English OEM Windows 7 Home Premium DVD (the license key will work) or use Vistalizator to change the language of the preinstalled OS.


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    #22
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    Jaafa wrote: »
    Seeing as computerunvierse was mentioned before in this I have a quick question to ask.

    I know the keyboard is qwertz which isn't a problem, but the site states the operating system and software will be in German too, anyway of changing this to English easily? Or do I have to buy a a new license? This is also B-stock, so one of the key's or something, may have already been activated.
    Please note that as long as it's not specified otherwise, this notebook will have German keyboard layout (QWERTZ), operating system and software. If available, an English version will be advertised separately.
    ...the bold bit must be new, I didn't see it there when they had that Laptop with FreeDos few months back as I had a run through looking for other catches back then.

    B Stock<-->Refurbs? What do you mean? All of them? Where do you see that?

    Using the key to activate Windows (English) would be the easiest, it's the key your're buying. Windows updates will find all the drivers, if it misses any, they'll be on manufacturers site.

    http://www.mydigitallife.info/install-mui-and-lip-language-packs-in-any-edition-of-windows-7-or-vista-with-vistalizator/
    For users who want to switch to another language version of Windows permanently, you will need to clean install Windows by using DVD or ISO image of Windows in that particular language with data and settings transferred via Windows Easy Transfer, despite the product key works on any language version.


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    #23
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    Torqay wrote: »
    Reinstall with any English OEM Windows 7 Home Premium DVD (the license key will work) or use Vistalizator to change the language of the preinstalled OS.
    Microsoft are trying to put a stop to this by the looks of it.


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    #24
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Sneaky little buggers... :D


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    #25
    Jaafa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Jaafa


    Thanks Torquay and Avalanche. So when I get the laptop just format it and then use an english windows 7 dvd to re-install in English?

    @avalanche This the laptop I'm going for, it says the same thing you qouted and doesn't say anything about a english version so I'm going to take that as meaning it's all german.

    EDIT: Also don't suppose either of you have come across a different laptop with an i5,gt555,+ 1920x1080 screen laptop or better for this price? Honestly asking here. :P


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    #26
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Jaafa wrote: »
    Thanks Torquay and Avalanche. So when I get the laptop just format it and then use an english windows 7 dvd to re-install in English?

    That would be your best bet, yes. And free of all the bloat too. ;)
    Jaafa wrote: »
    Also don't suppose either of you have come across a different laptop with an i5,gt555,+ 1920x1080 screen laptop or better for this price? Honestly asking here. tongue.gif

    Well, that Samsung Chronos with the VAT cashback option in the other thread isn't too far off. It's certainly got the way faster processor and indeed better graphics (unless you would require CUDA) but only a 1600x900 display.


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    #27
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Much thanks to everyone here for all your help. I was considering a Lenovo, but looking through other threads their support seems to be poor, now that it is contracted out to Medion. I don't think they had a machine with the full required spec.

    Anyway, this is the system I am planning on going with, Dell Precision M6600. Cost is steep, almost €3k, but it will hopefully last me a few years. Anyway a tradesman needs good tools. (Thats how I'm justifying it anyway!) The Vortex II is my other choice (as above), but what is the build quality like does anyone know? Would the graphics card really be a problem? I run revit with a gaming card at the moment, though I do get a pop-up every time I run it saying it may not be compatible. No real problems as of yet though.

    PROCESSOR One Intel Core I7-2860QM (2.50GHz, 8MB cache, Quad Core)
    OPERATING SYSTEM English Genuine Windows® 7 Professional (64Bit OS)

    GRAPHICS CARD NVIDIA Quadro 4000M with 2GB GDDR5 edit
    SECURITY SOFTWARE Trend Micro Worry Free Business Security 3.5 (15 Month) Software MUI
    MICROSOFT® OFFICE 2010 Microsoft® Office Starter 2010 (No full-featured Microsoft® Office software included)
    MEMORY 16GB 1600MHz DDR3 Dual Channel (4x4GB)
    LCD 44cm (17.3") UltraSharp™ FHD (1920x1080) Wide View LED-backlit LCD Panel
    HARD DRIVE 750GB Serial ATA (7.200 Rpm)
    OPTICAL DRIVE 8X DVD+/-RW Drive Slot Load


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    #28
    Jaafa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Jaafa


    Be very aware that the Dell will depreciate heavily, in two years it'll be worth half it's value if not less.

    That said as long as you don't plan on reselling it will last a solid 5 years at least I would say. Games shouldn't be a problem to run, although you may have issues with drivers which may be tricky to fix if you can fix it at all.


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    #29
    Jaafa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Jaafa


    Torqay wrote: »
    That would be your best bet, yes. And free of all the bloat too. ;)



    Well, that Samsung Chronos with the VAT cashback option in the other thread isn't too far off. It's certainly got the way faster processor and indeed better graphics (unless you would require CUDA) but only a 1600x900 display.

    Thanks but even with the cashback it's 200 euro more expensive. Processor is better but I wont be doing anything that would require that much CPU power. GPU is actually similar to the GT555m, if not a little worse, and as you already said the screen is worse. So I'll think Ill stick with the MSI.

    I've had my eye on this MSI for months, and have come across nothing really that matches it, just thought I'd throw it out there. Thanks for the suggestion tho.


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    #30
    _AVALANCHE_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    Jaafa wrote: »
    @avalanche This the laptop I'm going for, it says the same thing you qouted and doesn't say anything about a english version so I'm going to take that as meaning it's all german.

    EDIT: Also don't suppose either of you have come across a different laptop with an i5,gt555,+ 1920x1080 screen laptop or better for this price? Honestly asking here. :P
    I see the B Stock thing now, all german yea, use the digital life links above.

    The
    slight traces of usage (Photo on request)
    bit would worry me, did you request photo? Good price but it's alot of money to spend on "not new". I'll have a look later and see if I can better it. I wouldn't be to pushed about Full HD myself.

    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Would the graphics card really be a problem? I run revit with a gaming card at the moment, though I do get a pop-up every time I run it saying it may not be compatible. No real problems as of yet though.

    I found the site and possibly the Thread for you to answer this!:D

    http://www.revitforum.org/hardware-infrastructure/72-revit-hardware-video-graphic-cards.html

    If it's not answered in that thread (updated a week ago), maybe register and ask. I don't have time to look through it, curious though.


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    #31
    Jaafa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Jaafa


    _AVALANCHE_ wrote: »
    I see the B Stock thing now, all german yea, use the digital life links above.

    The bit would worry me, did you request photo? Good price but it's alot of money to spend on "not new". I'll have a look later and see if I can better it. I wouldn't be to pushed about Full HD myself.

    I'd be willing to bear scratch or two for that price, I dont think you'll find anything close to it. Full HD not so important for me either, but I defiantly want above 1366x768 and 1600x900 is not on many 15 inch laptops. Also it says full warranty and guarantee come with it so that's the main thing really.

    I wonder what it means by the 'test unit' part?

    EDIT: I've sent them an email for pictures and to see what they mean by test unit.


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