airsoft IPSC????

Eason · 30-03-2012 12:40am #1

why is airsoft IPSC never have it in ireland I was wondring when is the time start it? should be good fun. if any one like airsoft IPSC please let me know.

Dogwatch · 30-03-2012 9:09am

What are you talking about??

Migworks · 30-03-2012 10:26am

The OP is talking about International Practical Shooting Confederation, and i do know that there are individuals who are working here in the South East to bring this style of shooting to the Airsoft community in Ireland.

Exciting times ahead, not everyone who is in Airsoft is into the skermishing, and proper target ranges are few (although we are well served by a 1st class range at www.kilkennyairsoft.ie ). IPSC style competition will bring a new element to Airsoft, and help grow our expanding community further.

And before i get jumped on (there are old debates about this here on boards going back to 2004) this type of speed shooting does not have to be at human shaped targets! (though i think the old arguments against this are now gone seeing as we can skermish freely at controlled sites shooting at each other!).

Im newish to Airsoft and getting a feel for how the sport is evolving, and i would love this kind of competition to establish itself here alonside the skermishing / target shoot / plinking communities.

Witcher · 30-03-2012 12:38pm

Migworks wrote: »

And before i get jumped on (there are old debates about this here on boards going back to 2004) this type of speed shooting does not have to be at human shaped targets! (though i think the old arguments against this are now gone seeing as we can skermish freely at controlled sites shooting at each other!)

That debate was on real steel IPSC over on the shooting forum which is now illegal anyway. If airsoft IPSC took off you might attract a few of the guys who shot it real steel a few years ago.

Migworks · 30-03-2012 12:53pm

Blay wrote: »

Migworks wrote: »

And before i get jumped on (there are old debates about this here on boards going back to 2004) this type of speed shooting does not have to be at human shaped targets! (though i think the old arguments against this are now gone seeing as we can skermish freely at controlled sites shooting at each other!)

That debate was on real steel IPSC over on the shooting forum which is now illegal anyway. If airsoft IPSC took off you might attract a few of the guys who shot it real steel a few years ago.

Thanks Blay I did a little look before posting originally but didn't read into it too much! Lol

I do think that there would be a lot of people that would enjoy this, that don't currently join in any groups or teams because they are not into the skermishing, and it defiantly brings a whole new dimension in how you use your guns.

As said, I know of a movement happening these last few months and if and when it comes about, I'm sure the Airsoft community will get to hear about it!

I'm waiting with anticipation 80)

johnboyire · 30-03-2012 1:22pm

a shop had somthing like this set up briefly a few years back, long gone now. tried it once it was good fun you have to think about the angles of fire and how you approach the obstacles/targets etc.

while it was enjoyable it was a one-off for me, i much prefer airsoft skirmishing/milsims.

i think this would appeal to airsofters who are obsessed by competition. and theres lots of them,

its a structured timed competition where speed and accuracy are important.

you regularly see sites that run events having subevents on the day that involve target shooting competitions and they often prove to popular, I cant see any good reasons why a more structured approach would not be of interest to airsofters?

not my cup of tea but good luck to anyone who does try to promote this as a sport.

Nuke1973 · 30-03-2012 2:09pm

Just be careful what it's called. If it's anything that includes "practical pistol" or "practical shooting" then there's no way the guards will give permission.

CQB Airsoft · 30-03-2012 4:17pm

We're going to be building a practical pistol range ourselves fairly soon after talking to Derek in MIA. It should be a good laugh.

Witcher · 30-03-2012 4:30pm

Nuke1973 wrote: »

Just be careful what it's called. If it's anything that includes "practical pistol" or "practical shooting" then there's no way the guards will give permission.

?

Once it is run within the boundry of the legislation on airsoft then the name doesn't matter. If the guards were to find fault with airsoft IPSC they would also be against any airsoft game.

Gatling · 30-03-2012 5:20pm

The garda isn't the problem its the Doj when it comes to practical pistol for what reason they concluded it was antisocial activity for all involved ,but skirmishing and milsim is no problem,
Would love to see it done properly here using ipsc rules and setups its got a big following worldwide

Nuke1973 · 30-03-2012 5:26pm

Gatling wrote: »

The garda isn't the problem its the Doj when it comes to practical pistol for what reason they concluded it was antisocial activity for all involved ,but skirmishing and milsim is no problem,
Would love to see it done properly here using ipsc rules and setups its got a big following worldwide

But the guards will follow DOJ guidelines and anyone that wants to open this will need garda permission.

OddysAirsoft · 30-03-2012 6:29pm

But the guards will follow DOJ guidelines and anyone that wants to open this will need garda permission.

Nope - not technically true - Airsoft IPSC is completely legal and Gardai/DOJ permission is not required.

Target shape/size matters not a jot either - and I agree, there seems to be a fair bit of interest growing in this form of airsoft. I am myself, getting rigged out for it and going to start training shortly. I personally see sites around the country organising sections of their sites to hold IPSC style matches, maybe as an end of day game for the people who are interested - I might be wrong on that but RedBarn have gone to huge trouble to do just this and will have it live this summer.

Witcher · 30-03-2012 6:44pm

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

Nope - not technically true - Airsoft IPSC is completely legal and Gardai/DOJ permission is not required.

All sites now require the local superintendent's permission, I think he means that if someone wanted to open a site which catered for IPSC only they may run into trouble when it came to getting permission for the site.

bullets · 30-03-2012 8:06pm

Lemming · 30-03-2012 8:26pm

IMO, I would suggest treading carefully where notions of IPSC are concerned. Whilst airsoft doesn't fall under the boundaries of RS, the DoJ may construe any attempts at IPSC for airsoft as willy waving in their general direction since - as already mentioned - certain senior civil servants have a real bug bear about the concept.

Migworks · 31-03-2012 2:50am

Lemming wrote: »

IMO, I would suggest treading carefully where notions of IPSC are concerned. Whilst airsoft doesn't fall under the boundaries of RS, the DoJ may construe any attempts at IPSC for airsoft as willy waving in their general direction since - as already mentioned - certain senior civil servants have a real bug bear about the concept.

But I don't understand why ? Surely if you look at what Airsoft is today, as opposed to say 5 or 10 years back, what we can achieve now in the form of properly run sites playing battle games and milsim has become well accepted by the Garda so why would there be objections to the same guns being used to run speed target shooting, at least your not shooting people then!

Don't get me wrong I know that establishing another avenue of Airsoft might ruffle a few feathers, but Ireland (& relevant bodies) have come a long way in allowing our sport to flourish over the last decade and longer, so I don't see the progression to Airsoft IPSC style events being a problem anymore.

It's good to hear there are others looking into this, and as I said before, as a relative newcomer, this area really interests me, more so than skernishing, and as it (hopefully) develops over the next few years, it will surely bring on board greater numbers enjoying our sport in a responsible and safe manner. Anyone who has only plinked in their back garden and then tried out a target competition or skermish will testify how much it raised their interest and gave then the will to improve their skill level!

One final thought, if the original title has baggage, change it to
Irish Practical Shooting Competition or Irish Pistol Shooting Competition lol!

Lemming · 31-03-2012 2:24pm

Migworks wrote: »

But I don't understand why ? Surely if you look at what Airsoft is today, as opposed to say 5 or 10 years back, what we can achieve now in the form of properly run sites playing battle games and milsim has become well accepted by the Garda

'Tolerated'. Not 'Well accepted'. There was a Garda airsoft team (unofficial) if I recollect and they were all instructed to stop. There is a rather profound difference between tolerated & well accepted.

And it's not the Gardai that are the real problem in any case.

so why would there be objections to the same guns being used to run speed target shooting, at least your not shooting people then!

Ask the DoJ. They have clearly indicated that they have issue with the notion of IPSC.

Edit: At the end of the day, I'm not saying that it can't be done for airsoft, I'm just saying it's a matter that needs consideration and threading carefuly over. I sincerely doubt that there would be any reaction from the DoJ in the short term; but governments tend not to look short-term; more mid to long term, so I'd be wary of having something come back in the airsoft community's face two/three/four years from now when there's poor chance of comeback to either stated fact or implied innuendo from civil servants.

CQB Airsoft · 31-03-2012 2:35pm

The airsoft community has to lose the paranoia, obey the law and make it as safe as you can. Other than that work away.

Lemming · 31-03-2012 2:44pm

CQB Airsoft wrote: »

The airsoft community has to lose the paranoia, obey the law and make it as safe as you can. Other than that work away.

This isn't about paranoia; the DoJ explicitly banned IPSC a couple of years back, when airsoft was also under direct threat of being written out of existence. Laws tend to be vague to allow for room to manoeuvre, so for them to come out with something so specific makes for a lot of political reading between the lines. They clearly have a problem with IPSC whether people think it rational or irrational. I would be inclined to say more irrational given how dysfunctional Ireland's RS laws are.

Maybe they'll leave well alone, maybe not. I don't know. Neither does anyone else but them. But given the department's past behaviour, I'd think before rushing in. That's all. It's not paranoia; it's common sense.

Migworks · 31-03-2012 5:47pm

I think it's time for a "watch this space" moment!

I hope those who are looking into this get a chance to explore all avenues and are able to bring a structured plan to the table to take to the relevant bodies.

I can understand the opposition and caution used when it was RS IPSC especially back in 2004, but things have moved forward since then, and it's Airsoft we are talking about not RS, and I can't see how or why anyone would object to shooting targets in a timed run yet allow the shooting of persons during Milsim / Skermish events.

BioHazRd · 31-03-2012 7:34pm

Migworks wrote: »

I think it's time for a "watch this space" moment!

I hope those who are looking into this get a chance to explore all avenues and are able to bring a structured plan to the table to take to the relevant bodies.

I can understand the opposition and caution used when it was RS IPSC especially back in 2004, but things have moved forward since then, and it's Airsoft we are talking about not RS, and I can't see how or why anyone would object to shooting targets in a timed run yet allow the shooting of persons during Milsim / Skermish events.

People need to remember that airsoft has only been legal in Ireland since 2006 due to a loophole in the CJA and only been mentioned in the law for less than three years. The doj DO have problems with the concept of ipsc but if any progress is to be made on this front, the IAA will need to talk to them about it and try and persuade them that it is the preferred option.
I am not saying they will say no, but at least we will know where we stand. People just starting it up and saying "sure it's legal" may be in for a rude awakening, just like a site a few years ago that "had Garda permission" to use pyro, but did not have the doj permits. The doj were not impressed and the site was raided.
Tread softly

OddysAirsoft · 31-03-2012 8:24pm

It is my understanding (and I am open to correction) that there are a large number of ex-ipsc shooters here who still compete abroad and they have been given permission from the DOJ to train with Airsoft equipment in their gun clubs around the country - again I will reiterate I am not 100% on this but will look into it and try and find out more - according to Damo in RedBarn they have all the necessary permissions and will be going ahead later this year with it!

Migworks · 01-04-2012 1:29am

Quote "People just starting it up and saying "sure it's legal" may be in for a rude awakening" end quote

That's good advice but the individuals I'm aware of that are persueing this are not Johnny come lately's but serious about approaching this in the correct way.

Of course as community it would be sensible to do this via the IAA, and I know there are new guys at the helm as of the last few weeks, and having been introduced to the IAA chairman, I believe that things will progress in the right direction over the next year.

This avenue of Airsoft has to have a bright future here in Ireland, and all I'm saying is lets support whoever brings this forward and establishes a safe and exciting new dimension to OUR sport, remember nothing is impossible ( over 800,000 saying no to the household charge!!!! Not starting sub thread honestly).
Cheers

Puding · 01-04-2012 9:26am

I think what people are trying to say is just be sensible about it. Authority and the country has a whole has a hang up about anything that relates to military training.

Yes on paper it is legal but we still need to be sensible.

IPSC in theory is fine, if you want to push that area of the hobby just be professional and go above and beyond when dealing with authority.

Personally it is not really paronia but more just a sensible approach, we are the minority, we do something that is a little strange and tbh we have no politic leverage if anything was to go wrong.

Why it is not being done at the moment? I would say the same as most things in airsoft, people want something but are not willing to put it in place themselves and expect someone else to do the leg work.

CQB Airsoft · 01-04-2012 2:17pm

Lemming wrote: »

This isn't about paranoia; the DoJ explicitly banned IPSC a couple of years back, when airsoft was also under direct threat of being written out of existence. Laws tend to be vague to allow for room to manoeuvre, so for them to come out with something so specific makes for a lot of political reading between the lines. They clearly have a problem with IPSC whether people think it rational or irrational. I would be inclined to say more irrational given how dysfunctional Ireland's RS laws are.

Maybe they'll leave well alone, maybe not. I don't know. Neither does anyone else but them. But given the department's past behaviour, I'd think before rushing in. That's all. It's not paranoia; it's common sense.

A couple of years ago people were worried about doing training courses for fear of breaking section 15 but once loads of us started sure all we got were trouble free practice sessions.

Sometimes you have to push the boat out and as long as it is done in a safe and responsible manner I'm sure we will be fine or at worst told to close that section of the site which isn't a huge deal anyway but I hear what your saying and we will speak to himself in the local cop shop before going ahead with anything.

jayod30 · 01-04-2012 8:03pm

BioHazRd wrote: »

People need to remember that airsoft has only been legal in Ireland since 2006 due to a loophole in the CJA and only been mentioned in the law for less than three years. The doj DO have problems with the concept of ipsc but if any progress is to be made on this front, the IAA will need to talk to them about it and try and persuade them that it is the preferred option.

If the DoJ do have a problem with it then I don't see why the IAA should get involved. The last thing we'd want to start doing is becoming a headache to them and before we know it the magnifying glass is back on us. As the saying goes " If it ain't broke, don't fix it "

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

It is my understanding (and I am open to correction) that there are a large number of ex-ipsc shooters here who still compete abroad and they have been given permission from the DOJ to train with Airsoft equipment in their gun clubs around the country

Let these ex-ipsc shooters start their own representitive body and fight it out, if they're successful well and good it could be integrated into airsoft but until then lets not start battles we don't need.

OzCam · 01-04-2012 8:47pm

Could someone (perhaps from RS? Sparks?) please clarify whether the objection to Practical Pistol is at the bureaucratic level, in the DoJ, or political, from the Minister. Or perhaps both?

Minister Shatter has done great work for the rights of families and children in Irlsh law, but his answers to recent questions about the faults with the firearms licensing system give one the impression he really doesn't like anything to do with guns.

If the objection is political, it will require different handling.

Witcher · 01-04-2012 9:45pm

OzCam wrote: »

Could someone (perhaps from RS? Sparks?) please clarify whether the objection to Practical Pistol is at the bureaucratic level, in the DoJ, or political, from the Minister. Or perhaps both?

Minister Shatter has done great work for the rights of families and children in Irlsh law, but his answers to recent questions about the faults with the firearms licensing system give one the impression he really doesn't like anything to do with guns.

If the objection is political, it will require different handling.

It was somewhat related to the DOJ considering a ban on all pistols circa 2008, I believe the IPSA were told that if they wound up the organisation then .22 caliber pistols would be allowed to remain alongside renewals for centrefire pistols, if they didn't wind up all pistols would be banned. They did wind up and some pistols are still available to licence.

Back then Dermot Ahern was at the reins and he wasn't too keen on firearms, what politican is? I would imagine at the time there was the demand in the DOJ to remove practical pistol and Ahern had the means to do it. Shatter is in now but I'd say the DOJ's appetite to change the legislation on pistols/IPSC is non-existant and Shatter isn't going to help out shooters and campaign for change.

That's all RS related though, they may not have a problem with airsoft IPSC but I would certainly approach them before doing it. Yeah you could say 'sure once it's all legal it's grand' but it's a discipline which was banned in it's RS form not 4 years ago and to seek the opinion of the authorities on it would avert any future trouble and would look good in the eyes of the DOJ imo.

Sparks will hopefully come along with a more comprehensive answer but he had a new son recently so is probably otherwise engaged.

cathalomurchu · 11-12-2012 12:22am

Lemming wrote: »

There was a Garda airsoft team (unofficial) if I recollect and they were all instructed to stop.

Since when do the gardai have the right to tell their employees what hobbies/sport they can and cannot play?

Lemming · 11-12-2012 11:35am

cathalomurchu wrote: »

Since when do the gardai have the right to tell their employees what hobbies/sport they can and cannot play?

Ask them.

fayer · 11-12-2012 2:01pm

Lemming wrote: »

IMO, I would suggest treading carefully where notions of IPSC are concerned. Whilst airsoft doesn't fall under the boundaries of RS, the DoJ may construe any attempts at IPSC for airsoft as willy waving in their general direction since - as already mentioned - certain senior civil servants have a real bug bear about the concept.

This is true. The government and DoJ do not like PS in any form. The IAA was told more than once to try keep Airsoft away from PS to avoid attention of the law makers. Something to do with teaching people to be really good at using hand guns fast in urban situations.

fayer · 11-12-2012 2:05pm

PS. That is not to say this is a dead topic. The IAA can table it on the agenda for its next meeting with the powers that be.

airsoft IPSC????

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