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US charges against Irish "Hackers"

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  • 09-03-2012 8:33am
    #1
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭


    Im wondering where does this stand legality wise.

    I have read a bit about it today and some people claim that since these guys were in Ireland attacking US servers that the crime was commited in Ireland and so they have not commited a crime in the US.

    Are the US over reaching here as they often do?
    Or is there some loophole in laws that would indicate they could be charged?


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    #2
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    We have been discussing this in the security forum also here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056571650

    My contention is that, they cannot extradite them because the alleged attacks were committed in Ireland. The Extradition Act does not permit extradition unless the crime was committed outside of Ireland. While some of the servers in question may have been physically located in the US, the physical location of the alleged attackers was Ireland and therefore - based on Section 15 of the Extradition Act, it would not be possible to extradite them.
    15.—Extradition shall not be granted where the offence for which it is requested is regarded under the law of the State as having been committed in the State.

    It's worth looking at the case of Seán Garland.


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    #3
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    dlofnep wrote: »
    We have been discussing this in the security forum also here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055062569

    My contention is that, they cannot extradite them because the alleged attacks were committed in Ireland. The Extradition Act does not permit extradition unless the crime was committed outside of Ireland. While some of the servers in question may have been physically located in the US, the physical location of the alleged attackers was Ireland and therefore - based on Section 15 of the Extradition Act, it would not be possible to extradite them.



    It's worth looking at the case of Seán Garland.

    That link is to the Irish Forum :)


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    #4
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Jesus, whoops. Updated link :o


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    #5
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    Drawing comparisons to the Ian Bailey case though where France wanted him sent there.

    The crime was alledged to have been in Ireland but under French Law because it was a French citizen they can charge him and got it granted in High Court but he won an appeal in the Supreme Court.

    So if the DOJ in US decide that the fact that the server he attacked was in the US means he is subject to US laws.
    This would lead me to believe that if the US were to want these guys sent over it could happen as they have charged them unlike in the Bailey case.

    They have already done similar with megaupload and the canadian betting company in recent times.


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    #6
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    The US also wanted Seán Garland, but the request was rejected based Section 15 of the extradition act. I don't see any feasible way legally that they could extradite them, when the alleged crimes would have been committed in Ireland.

    I'm not sure as to the circumstances into the Ian Bailey case.


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    #7
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The US also wanted Seán Garland, but the request was rejected based Section 15 of the extradition act. I don't see any feasible way legally that they could extradite them, when the alleged crimes would have been committed in Ireland.

    I'm not sure as to the circumstances into the Ian Bailey case.

    Bailey case he is alledged to have killed a french woman in west cork.
    So in this instance theres no debate over where the crime took place.

    Hopefully some of the more legal minded people here can shed some light on the location of the person having an impact here.


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    #8
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Yes - we have two conflicting cases between Bailey and Garland - Perhaps someone else could weigh in?


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    #9
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,347 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    castie wrote: »
    Drawing comparisons to the Ian Bailey case though where France wanted him sent there.

    The crime was alledged to have been in Ireland but under French Law because it was a French citizen they can charge him and got it granted in High Court but he won an appeal in the Supreme Court.
    The Bailey case refers to a European Arrest Warrant, which I suspect is under different legislation.


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    #10
    johnfás
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭johnfás


    People who consider hacking should be aware that it is also an offence under Irish law and may be punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment under the Theft & Fraud Offences Act.


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    #11
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    johnfás wrote: »
    People who consider hacking should be aware that it is also an offence under Irish law and may be punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment under the Theft & Fraud Offences Act.
    I'd rather be tried and punished here to be honest.


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    #12
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Has anyone actually been sentenced in Ireland for hacking out of curiosity? I can't imagine the Irish justice system giving any 19 year old kid a long sentence for what was childish curiosity, and a bit of mischief.


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    #13
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Playing devil's advocate on the sentencing - "pour encourager les autres" perhaps.
    Given that the EU is quite serious after issuing numerous directives on e-commerce matters, there might be pressure on the Government to prosecute so as to demonstrate Ireland's commitment to digital rights.


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