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14-02-2012, 11:02   #16
waster81
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I'd say a lack of advertising is the main explanation for this tbh.

Like n97 mini says, I'd have expected such positions to be filled from redeployment and every dog in the street knows that there's a hiring freeze on in the broader public sector. Since I didn't even hear anyone giving out about such a recruitment drive on here (as in there was no "why the hell are we hiring more civil servants?!!?" thread), and certainly didn't see the jobs advertised how would I (or most of the unemployed) have even known about the positions.

Besides that? Well 30k wouldn't be a high enough wage to attract anyone attempting to support a family off of our overly generous welfare system.

There's also no mention in the article as to how many jobs were advertised. If it's only a handful a job-seeker could be forgiven for not bothering since we're accustomed to Fianna Fail rule and "it's hardly worth the price of a stamp when some TD's niece/nephew will get the job anyway..."

Previous poster claimed that the graduates didnt have the requisite skill set, so those in the civil service from other departments are expected to have those skills

What if the skills were not available in other departments, there would no sense in redeploying them if they hadnt the required skills

So €30k isnt enough incentive, you think we should pay them more or just cut the social welfare ( what figure had you in mind)

The fianna fail thing is just an excuse and adds nothing to the discussion

But its off topic, because here we have a number of jobs in the public service that may/cant be filled by existing members and so far we have had

- It wasnt well advertised ( or people didnt look hard enough )
- 30k isnt enough to attract people to work ( despite we constantly told there are thousands of people looking to take jobs in the public service , if only we could get rid of some of the wasters
- There's a lack of qualifications
- Few myths thrown in for good measure
- Oh and dublin is too far away ( heaven forbid you might have to travel for your first job, there was a programme on where people travelled from limerick every day back and forth for a job, I guess if you really wanna a job you would do anything

But lets get back on script and continue telling us whats wrong with the public service

Last edited by waster81; 14-02-2012 at 11:09.
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14-02-2012, 11:03   #17
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Only 3,200 applications? That's not a small number.

The most likely reason for this is simply a lack of qualifications. More people than ever are staying on in college for masters and doctorates, and the vast bulk of our 450,000 unemployed are still people who worked in construction and similar sectors - these would largely have either no 3rd-level qualifications, or very specific qualifications such as architecture or law, so would not be appropriate candidates for a CS job.

The PS is legendary for rejecting applicants who don't meet the criteria exactly (maybe it's a myth, but it's the general perception), so lots of people would look at a job spec and not waste their time applying if they don't fit it exactly.
Myths more myths
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14-02-2012, 11:08   #18
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I would have thought that if I were unemplyed and looking for a job, then I would be checking every possible site, newspaper etc
If you were told that there was a RECRUITMENT FREEZE happening at a company, would you apply to it? Some people try to keep positive, and if there's a RECRUITMENT FREEZE happening, you'd assume you'd get a PFO letter, so many wouldn't apply.

Does anyone know what the position minimum requirements are, and if it was advertised at all? Also, how many non-graduates applied?

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Graduates with qualifications in human resources, law, accountancy, economics, finance/banking and tax policy were invited to apply.
Is €30k good or bad for people who did well in "law, accountancy, economics, finance/banking and tax policy"?
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14-02-2012, 11:10   #19
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How many job were advertised?
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14-02-2012, 11:14   #20
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Originally Posted by waster81 View Post
I would have thought that if I were unemplyed and looking for a job, then I would be checking every possible site, newspaper etc
Did you see these jobs advertised in the paper? Mentioned in discourse anywhere? I didn't.

Quote:
Previous poster claimed that the graduates didnt have the requisite skill set, so those in the civil service from other departments are expected to have those skills

What if the skills were not available in other departments, there would no sense in redeploying them if they hadnt the required skills
The requirements appear to be for admin roles. Hmmm, let me think for a second. What public sector body do we have that's compleltely bloated by admin staff... HSE anyone?

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So €30k isnt enough incentive, you think we should pay them more or just cut the social welfare ( what figure had you in mind)
For many, it won't be. Welfare entitlements for the nuclear family living in rented accommodation would be in region of 40k between rent allowance, JSB, medical card etc. It's off-topic but, yes, I'd cut welfare and I'd scrap the rent allowance scheme replacing it with a centralised system where the government rented the houses directly (allowing them to use their market power to reduce their costs - and the level of residential rents in general - considerably).

Back on topic, since many of our job-seekers would be worse off than their current situation if the were to get one of these positions, that limits the candidates who'll apply to single people or job seekers whose partner is working i.e. it'll be a second income.

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The fianna fail thing is just an excuse and adds nothing to the discussion
You asked why job-seekers weren't applying for these positions and, while I'd agree with you that it's a silly reason for someone not to apply if the knew of the jobs and were qualified to do them, after 15 years of Fianna Fail's cronyism, it's the only labour market many are used to: public jobs are "for the boys". It wouldn't stop me applying (and suing if a less qualified candidate with family connections got the job) but I can see it stopping someone who's already disheartened by the dismal jobs market.
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14-02-2012, 11:18   #21
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But lets get back on script and continue telling us whats wrong with the public service
Ah, we get to the kernel of the thread: you weren't asking a genuine question, your persecution complex saw the newspaper headline and thought "oh, here's something I can throw back against those evil public-sector bashers on boards.ie" and now want to dismiss the valid theories put forth as to why the application rate wasn't higher as myths because they don't suit your world-view.
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14-02-2012, 11:18   #22
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Anyone offer an explanation
Maybe they don't want to have to listen to everyone in the private sector constantly complaining about them and their public sector jobs?
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14-02-2012, 11:21   #23
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Did you see these jobs advertised in the paper? Mentioned in discourse anywhere? I didn't.
Yes, I saw a large ad in the newspaper about three weeks or so ago. They were also advertised on publicjobs.ie. With that site, you don't even need to on it to check. You can sign up for email alerts if anything you're interested in gets advertised. I don't consider 3,200 a poor response at all.
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14-02-2012, 11:26   #24
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I applied for the AO competition in 2007/2008 I think it was just as the moratorium kicked in but this time I didn't. They have changed the criteria. It used to be a general graduate entry route in - now they have specified different types of qualifications so it's more restrictive (especially for arts grads!) I think when I applied I heard around 5000 sat the exam so I am surprised heres not more, but maybe there is not enough law, accountancy, economics etc graduates looking for a job....
I emailed it to people I know who might want to apply and none had seen it so I'd say advertising was a big issue. Apparently it only went up on the Law Society vacancies section the day before the deadline
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14-02-2012, 12:20   #25
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3,200 is already a 60% increase in applicants compared to the last round of hiring and given that the requirements were stricter this time round, we can safely assume it could have been a 100% increase had they not been as strict.

If the jobs can be filled by anyone, then surely they should have been filled by HSE staff under the CPA. If they cannot be filled by anyone, then that suggests that many of the unemployed also fail to meet the requirements, hence no need to apply.

It's a non-thread tbh. The OP's agenda is clear, but the 60% increase in applications alone rubbishes his entire position.

The Indo and almost every article that comes out of it is also usually roundly condemned as tripe by the PS contingent on here, includng the OP IIRC, so what makes this article any different?
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14-02-2012, 12:48   #26
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Only 3,200 applications? That's not a small number.

The most likely reason for this is simply a lack of qualifications. More people than ever are staying on in college for masters and doctorates, and the vast bulk of our 450,000 unemployed are still people who worked in construction and similar sectors - these would largely have either no 3rd-level qualifications, or very specific qualifications such as architecture or law, so would not be appropriate candidates for a CS job.

The PS is legendary for rejecting applicants who don't meet the criteria exactly (maybe it's a myth, but it's the general perception), so lots of people would look at a job spec and not waste their time applying if they don't fit it exactly.
Rubbish - the minimum qualification for a job as administrative officer is an honours primary degree so lack of qualification is not the issue. See information below.

http://gradireland.com/careers-advic...stratormanager


Just last year we heard of 91,000 unemployed graduates - see below.

http://free-education.info/usi-launc...yed-graduates/


So where are the 88,000?

Have they all got jobs?
Have they all emigrated?
Are they picky and choosy and is the civil service beneath them?
Are they incompetent at looking for jobs?


P.S. The civil service follows the most rigourous recruitment procedures in Ireland, see the following link for information. So I don't know what legends you are hearing but they are probably fairytales.


http://www.cpsa.ie/Default.aspx?SID=39&SSID=0
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14-02-2012, 13:01   #27
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Just last year we heard of 91,000 unemployed graduates - see below.
How many of them have first or second class honours degrees? You claim that lack of qualification is an issue - how do you know? "Graduate" covers anyone with a FETAC qualification between levels 6 and 10, but the job spec specifically looks for a level 8 or better.

I have a degree, but not an honours degree. Even though I'm massively overqualified for an administrative position in the CS, if I saw a job advertisement looking specifically for an honours degree with first or second class honours, I wouldn't waste my time applying because as far as I've heard, the CS will bin my application for not meeting the minimum requirement.

Maybe if I was unemployed I might be more inclined to send it in because, "what harm" but on a typical job hunt I wouldn't bother.

I'm kind of wondering though what the question is here? Do you actually think that 3,200 applications for a small number of poorly advertised positions is very few? Do you think that all 450,000 unemployed should have thrown their hat into the ring?
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14-02-2012, 13:10   #28
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Rubbish - the minimum qualification for a job as administrative officer is an honours primary degree so lack of qualification is not the issue. See information below.
But this was not a general competition where any honours primary degree qualified a graduate to apply. The degree, as pointed out already, had to have been in certain specified disciplines such as economics, law, finance, HR, etc.
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14-02-2012, 13:11   #29
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How many of them have first or second class honours degrees? You claim that lack of qualification is an issue - how do you know? "Graduate" covers anyone with a FETAC qualification between levels 6 and 10, but the job spec specifically looks for a level 8 or better.

I have a degree, but not an honours degree. Even though I'm massively overqualified for an administrative position in the CS, if I saw a job advertisement looking specifically for an honours degree with first or second class honours, I wouldn't waste my time applying because as far as I've heard, the CS will bin my application for not meeting the minimum requirement.

Maybe if I was unemployed I might be more inclined to send it in because, "what harm" but on a typical job hunt I wouldn't bother.

I'm kind of wondering though what the question is here? Do you actually think that 3,200 applications for a small number of poorly advertised positions is very few? Do you think that all 450,000 unemployed should have thrown their hat into the ring?

You are not massively overqualified for an administrative position in the civil service, you are underqualified and probably not capable of holding down an administrative officer job.

You might be ok for a basic entry clerical officer job with those qualifications.

The positions were not poorly advertised and I was only asking about the missing 88,000 not the 450,000.
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14-02-2012, 13:16   #30
waster81
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Did you see these jobs advertised in the paper? Mentioned in discourse anywhere? I didn't.


The requirements appear to be for admin roles. Hmmm, let me think for a second. What public sector body do we have that's compleltely bloated by admin staff... HSE anyone?


For many, it won't be. Welfare entitlements for the nuclear family living in rented accommodation would be in region of 40k between rent allowance, JSB, medical card etc. It's off-topic but, yes, I'd cut welfare and I'd scrap the rent allowance scheme replacing it with a centralised system where the government rented the houses directly (allowing them to use their market power to reduce their costs - and the level of residential rents in general - considerably).

Back on topic, since many of our job-seekers would be worse off than their current situation if the were to get one of these positions, that limits the candidates who'll apply to single people or job seekers whose partner is working i.e. it'll be a second income.


You asked why job-seekers weren't applying for these positions and, while I'd agree with you that it's a silly reason for someone not to apply if the knew of the jobs and were qualified to do them, after 15 years of Fianna Fail's cronyism, it's the only labour market many are used to: public jobs are "for the boys". It wouldn't stop me applying (and suing if a less qualified candidate with family connections got the job) but I can see it stopping someone who's already disheartened by the dismal jobs market.
Well I'm not looking for a job so wasnt actively looking, but if I were I would look at every available source ( and it was advertised in the papers)

Not all the jobs are admin - where did you see that

So now we have another reason why some are unemployed - what % cant/wont work for €30k

And the other myth- is not worth replying to

You throw up arguments that in reality are false - but only try and justify your stance
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