Name and Shame Job Bridge

cagefan · 27-01-2012 02:56PM #1

Hi,

thought I saw a thread about this but couldn't locate it. Anyway, Im on the job bridge scheme and enjoying it. But I am sick of seeing companies trying to take advantage of it.

Anyway, latest attempt is insure.ie are chancing their arm to hire an intern for customer services. Require a degree and all. I have done this work for years before retraining. I pity anyone who does it for free. Its time the goverment fixed this disgrace

quietriot · 27-01-2012 03:10PM

Where do we draw the line between an actual opportunity and abuse?

I would have said something like:
"Shelf-Filler Internship" at Tesco would be abuse
"Customer Service" with Insure.ie, one of the countries well known insurance companies, would be an opportunity, no? Customer service is a skill that many coming out of college certainly don't have, they'd learn secondary skills that they might not already have and it'd certainly look good on the CV.

It's €185+€50 per week for it also, isn't it?

Sounds fine to me really. A person could get a lot out of that and use it when they're finished, unlike a shelf-filler who'll learn nothing of value.

For whatever it's worth, I've met the management in insure before and they're certainly not "scabby". I don't think they'd be the type to exploit people and as I know how much their base staff are paid, they aren't exploiting who they have there now either.

cagefan · 27-01-2012 03:18PM

quietriot wrote: »

Where do we draw the line between an actual opportunity and abuse?

I would have said something like:
"Shelf-Filler Internship" at Tesco would be abuse
"Customer Service" with Insure.ie, one of the countries well known insurance companies, would be an opportunity, no? Customer service is a skill that many coming out of college certainly don't have, they'd learn secondary skills that they might not already have and it'd certainly look good on the CV.

It's €185+€50 per week for it also, isn't it?

Sounds fine to me really. A person could get a lot out of that and use it when they're finished, unlike a shelf-filler who'll learn nothing of value.

For whatever it's worth, I've met the management in insure before and they're certainly not "scabby". I don't think they'd be the type to exploit people and as I know how much their base staff are paid, they aren't exploiting who they have there now either.

well, from my experience and I actually have quite a bit in customer service its not a job that requires a college degree or you to have experience in it. There are still quite a few jobs in that area for people even without experience (entry level) and if you are going to hire/take on someone to get abused all day then the least you can do is pay them. I'm definatley not trying to slate CS as a job - in fact I have alot of respect for people who can stick it out or even enjoy it - I certainly didnt.

As I said, Im on jobsbridge - I think it has a place but only in certain fields (Science, Enginneering, ect ect) Not jobs that anyone from any background can hypothetically do.

quietriot · 27-01-2012 03:26PM

They're most likely just trying to give the job to a college graduate for the sake of giving it to a graduate so. They obviously see that they can get the most out of a graduate who has shown they can work hard and that the same graduate will be able to get the most out of the experience with them.

Well isn't the whole point of the scheme to give people an opportunity to enrich their cv to make themselves more employable? At the end of the day, it's not like they can hand out high level jobs or highly technical jobs to people with no experience.

I don't see a valid reason that it need be exclusive to people in the science and engineering fields, and this is coming from someone in the science and engineering field.

cagefan · 27-01-2012 03:35PM

quietriot wrote: »

They're most likely just trying to give the job to a college graduate for the sake of giving it to a graduate so. They obviously see that they can get the most out of a graduate who has shown they can work hard and that the same graduate will be able to get the most out of the experience with them.

Well isn't the whole point of the scheme to give people an opportunity to enrich their cv to make themselves more employable? At the end of the day, it's not like they can hand out high level jobs or highly technical jobs to people with no experience.

I don't see a valid reason that it need be exclusive to people in the science and engineering fields, and this is coming from someone in the science and engineering field.

Well in my opinion they are probably trying to save themselves some cash. If they wanted a graduate why dont the pay them. Its only fair. They might benefit from having CS experience on there CV but in my experience all that it gave me was entry into more CS jobs. I never said they should hand out highlevel jobs just jobs which are relevent to a graduates career. Why dont they provide an internship for someone in marketing or something like that? Many other companies are. Instead they choose an entry level position that really probably isnt what a graduate wants to do. No graduate comes out of college and says I'd love a career in customer services. I wasnt saying restrict it engineering or science exclusively - I said restrict to fields which will be relevent to their future career. These guys are trying to save a few euro at someone elses expense. If they need someone why not pay them? Dont expand if you cant afford it.

quietriot · 27-01-2012 03:46PM

You could accuse every single company involving themselves with Job Bridge of just trying to save a few euro at the expense of someone else though and it is apparent that the difference between exploitation and opportunity is entirely subjective at this point.

If they want to offer it and a graduate wants to take part, what's the harm? The graduate is obviously interested in it and the company is interested in having them, both will benefit. Nobody is forcing anybody into it, it would seem?

Sure, it might not be the ideal job for a graduate but what would they prefer? To sit at home on social welfare doing nothing but putting a big gap on their cv? Flipping burgers in McD's, but with "pride" or something?

I've no idea. The scheme is here at the moment and isn't looking like it's going away and this seems to be one of the better things on it.

I don't agree that the taxpayers purse is being used to pay for the labour of private companies, any private companies, but that's how it is at the moment and is applicable to someone offering a science internship as someone offering a customer service internship.

cagefan · 27-01-2012 04:09PM

well I do accuse every single company but at least some of them offer decent work experience. GRaduates dont want to be at home on the dole they want to be out working and if they apply to that its because the feel they have no choice. I doubt one single applicant will want to be a CS agent. I think there is a huge harm in this, as if the scheme excluded these jobs they would have to offer a paid position. Anyway, I for one can speak about this from experience. I am at least getting good work and an enjoyable job if not paid so I can only imagine what it would be like in insure.ie. I'll leave there though as this is just going around in circles

cagefan · 27-01-2012 04:45PM

one other thing, I emailed company at info@insure.ie told them my thoughts..would be great if others did likewise! I'm probably a bit bored in my unpaid job today:D

Delancey · 27-01-2012 09:10PM

One of the most important principles of Job Bridge is that ' real ' jobs should not be displaced in preference to unpaid interns - pleanty of examples showing this is not the case. Scheme is mercilessly abused and should be wound up.

okiss · 30-01-2012 07:36PM

I know a company near me looking for a job bridge applicant with work experience. This company could afford to pay someone min wage for this job and even then they would be paying less than the going rate for this job.
One of my friends is looking for work but said why should I work for €50 pw on top of my dole for ////.
My friend has a lot of work experience and does not like or want to be out of work like a lot of people at the moment. They have applied for jobs and had some interviews and are hopeful of getting work soon.
Job bridge appears to be that gov is doing something to help out the jobless but the reality is that some companies are using it as a form of cheap labour.

gw80 · 01-02-2012 08:07PM

i found a job on fas yesterday advertised as a permenant job,20,000 a year, minimum 1 year expierience, job fitted me perfectly, job was for general op in a workshop, mig tig and arc welding and steel erecting i have around 7 years expierience in this area and could probably teach this company a few things as i dont think they have done much on site steel erecting, sent in me cv by email, happy days, said ill ring aswell to seem eager, i got threw to the owner and explained why i was ringing, but staight away he said i acually put that ad in the wrong place, it was meant to be in as an intern job and im in the process of changing it, now obviously this fella new nothing about the intern scheme until after he put the ad up, and either jobs bridge or just some random person informed him of this slave labour scheme and taught it was christmas again, whats stopping this guy from getting 6 to nine months of free labour from someone and then saying byebye,fair enough if he,s willing to take someone just out of a welding course with little expierience and is willing to take the time and train them on the job, then that works out good for both parties, as i would have loved this scheme when i was just out of training but no way would i do steel erecting for an extra 50 yoyos it can be quiet a dangerous job at times, in the future this scheme if kept running in its current format will be looked back on as a complete disaster, just my two cents

CatFromHue · 01-02-2012 08:31PM

gw80 wrote: »

i found a job on fas yesterday advertised as a permenant job,20,000 a year, minimum 1 year expierience, job fitted me perfectly, job was for general op in a workshop, mig tig and arc welding and steel erecting i have around 7 years expierience in this area and could probably teach this company a few things as i dont think they have done much on site steel erecting, sent in me cv by email, happy days, said ill ring aswell to seem eager, i got threw to the owner and explained why i was ringing, but staight away he said i acually put that ad in the wrong place, it was meant to be in as an intern job and im in the process of changing it, now obviously this fella new nothing about the intern scheme until after he put the ad up, and either jobs bridge or just some random person informed him of this slave labour scheme and taught it was christmas again, whats stopping this guy from getting 6 to nine months of free labour from someone and then saying byebye,fair enough if he,s willing to take someone just out of a welding course with little expierience and is willing to take the time and train them on the job, then that works out good for both parties, as i would have loved this scheme when i was just out of training but no way would i do steel erecting for an extra 50 yoyos it can be quiet a dangerous job at times, in the future this scheme if kept running in its current format will be looked back on as a complete disaster, just my two cents

If you see the position advertised on Jobridge and it states the candidate needs 1 year experience you should email Jobridge and complain. I've emailed and complained about a few jobs which stated the position needed experience, which obviously an intern wouldn't have, and they were removed.

thebman · 02-02-2012 03:12AM

CatFromHue wrote: »

If you see the position advertised on Jobridge and it states the candidate needs 1 year experience you should email Jobridge and complain. I've emailed and complained about a few jobs which stated the position needed experience, which obviously an intern wouldn't have, and they were removed.

I saw a job on it that I know requires two years experience minimum that just didn't say it needed the experience.

Saying the person will get on the job training which nobody in the company is actually trained to provide.

Doesn't matter as they didn't fill it because anyone that read the description would have been able to tell, they were trying to replace two people with experience with one person without.

This job bridge thing is being scammed left, right and centre from what I can see and I'm not even looking for work and can see this. I'm sure the minister and FAS themselves know it too.

Sala · 02-02-2012 01:51PM

I've seen worse.

At the moment there is a waiter / Waitress in Dundrum (I'd name and shame but it look like they set up a different email address for it), Cleaner/ Canteen Assistant, Tyre fitter so on.

I have been a waitress, there is no need to do an 9 month internship to qualify for it. Imagine slaving away, long unsociable hours, working really hard and taking in loads of money for your boss who doesn't even pay you..

I would do an internship if it was some job that I really wanted to do, but hadn't a chance to get in without experience.

motherelements · 02-02-2012 07:17PM

Who do I email about obvious abuses of the job internship scheme?? A car valet position in Lusk??!!! Total abuse of vulnerable people......

Sala · 03-02-2012 11:01AM

Who do I email about obvious abuses of the job internship scheme?? A car valet position in Lusk??!!! Total abuse of vulnerable people......

It's not abuse of vulnerable people if no one takes it up. It's a mere attempt to exploit someone, but to be honest I doubt a lot of people apply for these ones.

Some of them are good though, and you are allowed find your own position if you want.

K_A · 09-02-2012 08:48PM

http://advertsjobs.boards.ie/jobs/rua-red/cafe-supervisor/1334855

That's taking the piss surely?

Mrs OBumble · 10-02-2012 02:45PM

K_A wrote: »

http://advertsjobs.boards.ie/jobs/rua-red/cafe-supervisor/1334855

That's taking the piss surely?

Oddly enough, that reads to me like a good one: they've put a lot of thought into how they can turn it into an experience that gives them AND the trainee outcomes.

For someone with an interest in the arts, but work experience only in catering, it could be a way to get into decent jobs in the industry.

An Ri rua · 11-02-2012 07:16PM

cagefan wrote: »

well, from my experience and I actually have quite a bit in customer service its not a job that requires a college degree or you to have experience in it. There are still quite a few jobs in that area for people even without experience (entry level) and if you are going to hire/take on someone to get abused all day then the least you can do is pay them. I'm definatley not trying to slate CS as a job - in fact I have alot of respect for people who can stick it out or even enjoy it - I certainly didnt.

As I said, Im on jobsbridge - I think it has a place but only in certain fields (Science, Enginneering, ect ect) Not jobs that anyone from any background can hypothetically do.

Your last two paragraphs contradict each other and add to the disservice that is done to sales / customer services and marketing professionals generally in Ireland.
Customer Services is definitely easier to get into than sales and marketing. But all require professional skillsets, never mind technical skills. You say that you could neither stick CS out nor enjoy it. You then say that that JobBridge has no place regarding jobs that anyone from any background can hypothetically do. You are essentially ignoring the skillsets that good CS people have, which you did not, which is why you didn't enjoy or stick the job. Bad companies have bad CS, good companies have good CS. i.e their CS and sales departments can SOLVE customer issues, because the marketing department is congruent with the CEO's values in action. Where they are not, CS is a nightmare. Simple as.

I believe that Jobbridge should only be deployed where you are offered a path to a skillset (i.e a trade or an intern !!) and that COULD include Insure.ie but I'm not fully impressed by this knowledge and I AM an AonInsure.ie customer. I will be investigating further.

re sales & marketing, I've seen the Heritage Hotel in Portlaoise advertising for a Sales & Marketing Executive through Jobbridge. Now that's a joke. That's a 30K cost wiped out and one less job for displaced sales & marketing hospitality professionals in a dwindling industry.

The key to JobBridge should be internships in GROWING industries, new industries. So all boats are lifted, employer, employee and economy. Not merely subsidising dying and cost-defensive sectors.

L.Jenkins · 11-02-2012 09:55PM

I see some good points made regarding abuse of employees by Tesco for example. I must say, depending on the company and the outcome, it would be worth it in many other scenarios.

I applied for an internship with a research company who offered considerable experience and the potential for a job when the 9 months was up. It would have served me well, but I just lost out by my skin and got a paying job in the meantime.

AnnyHallsal · 12-02-2012 11:25AM

I was very wary about JobBridge when it was announced, and still am. Anyone browsing FAS over the months will have seen how paid positions have increasingly given way to internships. I would love to know the ratio, there seem to be an awful lot of internships advertised at the moment.

With that in mind, I accepted a position as an intern a month ago. I had applied for a few but only ever positions that I was genuinely unqualified for, and in industries I could see myself having a career in. It's two years since I finished my PhD in English and I was frustrated by how long it was taking me to build up a CV strong enough for the promise of an academic job.

I'm loving my work. I've been left to develop a social media, marketing and content strategy for a start-up formed by some really sharp, experienced and ambitious individuals. Who on earth would give me that opportunity otherwise? I feel like I've learned a tonne already and that I would now love a career in this industry. I'm inspired by their ambition and their faith that I can succeed and help their business grow.

This is JobBridge as it was intended. Regulation is key.

Sala · 17-02-2012 03:26PM

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=B+fomdowzS8kaDnSlUDk1zaMUPiFEeNrNWjviinu490thmC2C0u+DDoRRkEmzCW4Zqzp8HrF96vm+z4hbLibn65DSjnXqk6Bez0itA+CYKhZDJOThXqX1cED+Ng/1eugNJFLm5C9FxYlCQZ0FWQTb8mUz07vTt4O5QQE8kCNQ0/ljgmn6j7QTDvDiQD23f9hYVJT00xjDVGfjbGjj3Z5nHCPHWAYtIK6QujlanjdGUTGsc4jud/GmAyaKUlP2rhU9cvxp7RDgR3nEV12gSkOPQ8zOLYO+0j1laubqtXey10c0OvfTgwiLNqOAAZPKx2g5O01XKhqwSK1SBbA+7e3Xyulic4WiVQBwjaKYBMMscBPTktXRnrEBhWO8i4OSwT5mORTRp5nt+AoSzPdT2ciAic53W3DmA5ThrzUsQwJNYMs2K+IoyEbrWW9UqRRVB+pK7sT0F4RPraYEt5AEnJT+X82N8dByeX2mzyNTpGD7gE=

This is a disgrace. "The intern will gain practical experience in Housekeeping. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following: Bed making, servicing bedrooms, room management. On completion the intern will have attained skills in Housekeeping." 40 hours a week, 9 months, to learn how to do a basic minimum wage job? These are the type of jobs you are not usually required to have experience for. Never going to Lynams hotel. What is the email address of Jobbridge or do you use the online form?

luvs2spooge · 29-02-2012 03:14PM

This is ridiculous... internship to be a GROUND WORKER :eek: http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=B+fomdowzS8kaDnSlUDk1zaMUPiFEeNrNWjviinu490thmC2C0u+DHOKl4O1INGWGSSy0YvfPqdRHSeL3nEKszJH7+tJLcojtN4fOcxnfvqC2G8XZgvE2kIACkgx81yFG3MoZewd3JvWZaL9o+OFauRoxaUhNPq6XJJTFosNIYhPBkafdl/MkVWTd30XnGq/upDEnZao7DMLYQ4b9US3a311qaQWOMhW9EpNkYCqAws85FgLynWSukSA5KYj2V0zMncsT7DgG9I+8uSbXAswLU+X7bV4HnAvxsynnh8fwJos/oRJ8apGWaJFnf+/tKqnx6jVoZZQi5o2hJtAmFycS+/GF0IHpw4Bn51MqSOzXwnJhot+8GnHAUAxd54rq/rtDZ+Cgq5lBFZKuFXa3n7Mgbmh+TAXowMT5RKTjPq4u9+PTncZJEAzxcGqfChheDJBwmJmQdsjMLhdpb3jg1/9VYnLM4KQei51IfJZGwIIZVc=

Although this one really takes the biscuit...

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=B+fomdowzS8kaDnSlUDk1zaMUPiFEeNrNWjviinu490thmC2C0u+DIQIzrIR1lyQiO6X88wxzv+nY59b/o6c8M246bcdLyol0vGjulV5Ua04k6GGTV6NSqlhQ12A4+7ofrZImyHxnIvfEkt1KsENDkw5XZDvP6Z5wdjG2mV+jZxSu4B20YLb4sBO4PFnprz0KNNP/kxx1xKcTQoZyFBQAmj5WHgoSVG/TpKVpcCUAh/1AWsZBV6vAvELrznxHvMXlYftjrSh2ybLWASR+WUg8GOgFLew24Ry9rOYG9hz9lefS5K+s4URr1Nq4ffkOKpRLJY9AE99wd0GuYN0WDAkP4nVV1tve63VChP/BDt7zdXO2tPk3WPjFUPmieX5B9ztMEZJS32EIPg8M+g8otHZqpRTGsUEEuHQdOJMQ1VpMF4CMxgd8IdnX16ahWnEPYp3KdfeQyW1sZlfonWBSR/EN0fbZr4u+hBJvG94PunWZRo=

totally abusing the situation!

anbodhran · 15-03-2012 04:12PM

I'm currently on a Graduate Programme in a large multinational company. The graduate programme itself is highly regarded both internally and externally, and has been in existence for a long period of time.

When I joined the company there were no Job Bridge Interns, and now there are several. Basically they are doing work which can often be quite similar to the Graduate roles, and the intern will definitely get something out of it.

However, these people coming in on internships now would have been coming in on paid Graduate Programme contracts a couple of years ago, and I feel the company is taking advantage. The numbers on the Graduate programme have gone down 25-50% on previous years, and I get the feeling that they won't take on any in 2012. Why would they when they can get people in for free?

longhalloween · 21-03-2012 12:20PM

Lovely internship in a laundrette available for those who want it.

Laundry / Dry Cleaning Operative

The intern will gain practical experience in dry cleaning and laundry. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following laundry, pressing, assessing clothes for dry cleaning or wet cleaning, clothes assembly and counter work. On completion the intern will have attained skills in laundry, pressing and counter skills.

ABajaninCork · 21-03-2012 12:36PM

This isn't really a name & shame, just an observation...

I applied for a few Jobbridge positions within a multi-national company. One of which was as an HR admin intern which I don't have experience in, but thought it might be a useful string to my bow. I was told that I didn't have the quals or experience to apply. The company was really looking for newly-qualified HR professionals who needed the experience. Fair enough, I thought.

I then applied for a Sales Ops role for which I do have extensive experience, but it offered the opportunity to learn SalesForce which I've used before, but not much. I interviewed for the position, but didn't get the role as the hiring manager wanted someone with more experience...:rolleyes:

I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong, but surely the internship scheme was designed to give experience to those trying to break into a field, or to build up work experience anyway. A lot of these internships seem to be asking for degrees (fair enough I suppose); and experience.

Seems to me these positions were actually contract roles which were re-jigged as internships as this would be cheaper than employing an agency to find workers and paying agency rates. This is only one experience so far, but I suspect some of the multi-nationals might be using this to get contract workers at internship rates.

longhalloween · 21-03-2012 01:22PM

Here's another one for today.

Carpet Cleaning Technician

The intern will gain practical experience in: Cleaning Carpet, Upholstery and Rugs. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following: Methods of carpet cleaning, identification of fibre types, upholstery, testing methods for fabrics, Rug cleaning. Use of chemicals and learning data procedures on safety. The intern will be trained by the operations manager in all aspects of cleaning. On completion the intern will have attained skills in: Cleaning of carpets, upholstery & rugs, correct use of cleaning products, health & safety procedures.

This isn't an intership, it's a job. One that anyone could apply for with no experience and be trained up within a fortnight. After that you're just working for less than minimum wage, learning nothing else useful.

ABajaninCork · 21-03-2012 01:53PM

As an aside. Does anyone know whether interns have gone on to secure permanent full-time roles? Mind you, this may not necessarily be with the employer who provided the internship...

Are there any published figures we can look at?

Mrs OBumble · 21-03-2012 02:00PM

Seems to be the day for it:

I don't like name-and-shame, but this one posted on irishjobs.ie (where presumably they had to pay for the listing!) looks fantastic:

http://irishjobs.ie/Jobs/Accommodation-Internship-6719841.aspx

Jobseekers must be on the Live Register and have been in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance/Benefit or signing on for credits for at least 3 months
Duties include:
Ø To present for duty in full uniform including name badge.
Ø To ensure a high standard of personal hygiene.
Ø To clean public areas / toilets and sign off bathroom checklist on a hourly basis.
Ø To collect supplies including linen are directed by the department manager / asst. manager / supervisor.
Ø To adhere to and maintain all cleaning programmes as directed.
Ø To restock supplies as required or directed by the accommodation manager / asst. accommodation manager / accommodation supervisor.
Ø To damp dust vacant rooms as directed by your department head.
Ø To appropriately report and record lost and found property as detailed in the accommodation SOP.
Ø To record and report maintenance needed to your supervisor or manager.
Ø To stock all service trolleys prior to commencement and on completion of shift.
Ø To empty rubbish and clean out vacuums on a daily basis.
Ø On completion of shift, return master keys to the accommodation manager / supervisor.
Ø To be aware of the key security policy as detailed in the accommodation SOP.
Ø To ensure daily Sign In/ Sign Out sheets including breaks are completed on a daily basis.
Ø To be responsible for the cleaning of the back of house areas including staff changing areas and canteen.
Ø To maintain storage presses, and linen rooms in a presentable condition.
Ø To provide turndown service if required.
Ø Service of tea/coffee making facilities within all guestrooms.
Ø Where require, to ensure guest laundry is collected, charged and returned to guest in speedy and accurate fashion.
Ø To carry out the hotels customer relation policy.
Ø To ensure full knowledge of hotel facilities, including opening and closing times and to promote these facilities at every opportunity.
Ø Ensure work trolley is free from obstruction and not blocking passageway

longhalloween · 21-03-2012 02:05PM

JustMary wrote: »

Seems to be the day for it:

I don't like name-and-shame, but this one posted on irishjobs.ie (where presumably they had to pay for the listing!) looks fantastic:

http://irishjobs.ie/Jobs/Accommodation-Internship-6719841.aspx

Qualifications: Third Level Diploma

Brilliant...

Toasterspark · 21-03-2012 02:15PM

longhalloween wrote: »

Qualifications: Third Level Diploma

Brilliant...

What, you think people are born with the ability to put on their uniform and name tag? People that haven't sat a course in 'Clothing Studies and Badge Application' shouldn't have the same chance to get this unpaid job - that'd be highly unfair.

Name and Shame Job Bridge

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