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Career as an Actuary........is it for me?

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  • 30-12-2011 4:45pm
    #1
    John 10
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭


    I am interested in doing the Actuarial Mathematics course in DCU. I have gone through the structure of the course several times and I recognize all of the module title and understand them.

    My question is this, does the career of an Actuary contain a lot of the theoretical side of Mathematics like calculus and differential equations etc. Or is ot based on practical stuff like some of the module titles listed in the aforementioned course such as Financial Economics and Probability.

    I am not any way close to being an A1 student in maths and I am curious if this should give any indication although I have been told already that it is not.

    Finally I am just wondering if people with good knowledge of this area can advise me whether or not I should pursue such a career. Thanks John 10.


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    #2
    **Timbuk2**
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 7,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭**Timbuk2**


    Have you read this?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056450402

    The actuarial stuff in uni is a lot more practical (probability, statistics, calculus, economics, etc.) than theoretical - you might share a few modules in first year with pure maths students, and do pure maths type courses then (e.g. linear algebra, number theory), but after that you branch off into actuarial modules!


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    #3
    alan4cult
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭alan4cult


    As Tim has said, actuary in college is a lot more practical than it is theoretical from the maths side of things. However from the business side of things it's more theoretical than practical.

    It's a good rounded career but if you were really interested in the maths side of things but still wanted the business element, a quantitative analyst for an investment bank or hedge fund would be a step up. Quants Traders study very heavy maths but it is an extremely well paying career.


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    #4
    John 10
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭John 10


    Thats great thanks very much. Glad to hear that it is largely practical as I wouldn't fancy the heavy theoretical side. Thanks again has really cleared it up for me:)


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    #5
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    The DCU course is quite mathsy, as in a lot of theoretical stuff. The actuarial subjects themselves ... well some would be a bit more "theoretical" than others shall we say. But they are more relevant to the career. The other subjects like partial differential equations, calculus, etc. is not what an actuarial career is about. And you don't need an A1 in the Leaving Cert to be an actuary. You need to be good at maths and love it, but you don't need an A1 - and if you don't love maths, actuary is not really a career choice. You're looking at numbers ALL DAY, so you gotta love maths, otherwise you'll go insane :)


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    #6
    John 10
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭John 10


    tinkerbell wrote: »
    The DCU course is quite mathsy, as in a lot of theoretical stuff. The actuarial subjects themselves ... well some would be a bit more "theoretical" than others shall we say. But they are more relevant to the career. The other subjects like partial differential equations, calculus, etc. is not what an actuarial career is about. And you don't need an A1 in the Leaving Cert to be an actuary. You need to be good at maths and love it, but you don't need an A1 - and if you don't love maths, actuary is not really a career choice. You're looking at numbers ALL DAY, so you gotta love maths, otherwise you'll go insane :)

    Are you or have you studied this course? So would I be right in saying that subjects such as Financial Economics and Probability are more relevant to an actuarial career than differential equations and calculus?


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    #7
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    I've done the course, and am working as a trainee now. You'd be right in saying that they would be more relevent - but it does depend heavily on where you are working. In general even in probability the detail you go into in college is far beyond that which is used in the industry.

    Overall it's the problem solving skills and analyitical ability that you will use from college in work - having done all the topics is an excellent grounding for working life as you will have understood the theory behind the methods used.


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    #8
    John 10
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭John 10


    Cliste wrote: »
    I've done the course, and am working as a trainee now. You'd be right in saying that they would be more relevent - but it does depend heavily on where you are working. In general even in probability the detail you go into in college is far beyond that which is used in the industry.

    Overall it's the problem solving skills and analyitical ability that you will use from college in work - having done all the topics is an excellent grounding for working life as you will have understood the theory behind the methods used.

    So is the course more theoretical based or practical based or a mixture of both? Would you say you need to be an A1 leaving cert maths student or not given your experience of the course? Also I know the course is going to be difficult be could you manage it comfortably if you are not an A1 maths student?


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    #9
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    It's both! Some stuff is theoretical, other stuff is practical. Things like programming would be very practical even though you will probably never actually use the exact programs/languages your learn on.

    A1 would not be necessary, but if you are studying Maths non-stop to get a B then you're probably going to struggle at the course. If you enjoy Maths and are good at it then you'll have no trouble!


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    #10
    ele1992
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭ele1992


    Cliste wrote: »
    I've done the course, and am working as a trainee now. You'd be right in saying that they would be more relevent - but it does depend heavily on where you are working. In general even in probability the detail you go into in college is far beyond that which is used in the industry.

    Overall it's the problem solving skills and analyitical ability that you will use from college in work - having done all the topics is an excellent grounding for working life as you will have understood the theory behind the methods used.

    I'm looking into starting an actuarial course next year, very interested in maths and it has always been my favourite subject.
    I've been hearing a lot about it being a very boring job, even if maths is the subject you like. Is this true from your experience as working as a trainee so far? Also could you tell if you can, do the companies take on people with straight maths degrees or would a post-grad be necessary if i did decide to do a straight maths course. Is this any trainees with just maths degrees or do they all have actuarial studies degrees where you work?
    Also, doing from your course were there many other job opportunities with regards maths like investment banking or trading or would they come from straight maths?

    Sorry about all the questions, it's just difficult to get answers for my questions elsewhere.


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    #11
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    Sorry about the slow response,

    Boring is relative, I have found the job very interesting, but you have to have an interest in problem solving. In fact a lot of people who studied engineering have made good actuaries.
    If you do a straight maths course then you should be able to get at least the stats exemption. You could go into a job from the degree but I don't know how easy it is to get jobs with a maths degree - I haven't met anyone who has, but I know several engineers and theoretical physics degree holders who went into the profession.

    Having done the course in DCU I know several people who went into trading and other finance jobs. Since then the degree has been changed from "financial and actuarial maths" into having a separate actuarial and financial class. Actuary is a very strong degree to have for any job in the financial sector. SIG in particular hire people from the area for trading.

    Ask me if you need any more details :)


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    #12
    roro_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭roro_utd


    I've been doing a bit of work as an actuarial intern for the past while having completed a couple of years of a course in it in DCU, and I've found that the detail we go into in college hasn't surfaced at all in the workplace. Basically you use analytical skills and attention to detail predominantly from what I have experienced (which admittedly isn't much). One of the girls I work with was telling me the material from fourth year is quite relevant to her work, I just haven't experienced that end of it yet. Been using Microsoft Excel a lot, and have a feeling I'll come out of the placement as a bit of an excel whizz.


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    #13
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    John 10 wrote: »
    Are you or have you studied this course? So would I be right in saying that subjects such as Financial Economics and Probability are more relevant to an actuarial career than differential equations and calculus?

    I have not had to look at anything resembling a differential equation since I finished college :D However like someone else said, it's more the problem-solving side of things that is useful in your career. Yes I have studied the course and am a qualified actuary.
    John 10 wrote: »
    So is the course more theoretical based or practical based or a mixture of both? Would you say you need to be an A1 leaving cert maths student or not given your experience of the course? Also I know the course is going to be difficult be could you manage it comfortably if you are not an A1 maths student?

    You don't need an A1 in maths to do the course, there is a minimum grade requirement in hons maths but you don't need an A1. You just need to love the subject and be dedicated. If you've got no dedication, then don't bother going down the actuarial road because it's a long one - it'll take 4 years in college and usually a minimum of 3 years afterwards doing exams, most people it can take 5/6 years to qualify.
    ele1992 wrote: »
    I'm looking into starting an actuarial course next year, very interested in maths and it has always been my favourite subject.
    I've been hearing a lot about it being a very boring job, even if maths is the subject you like. Is this true from your experience as working as a trainee so far? Also could you tell if you can, do the companies take on people with straight maths degrees or would a post-grad be necessary if i did decide to do a straight maths course. Is this any trainees with just maths degrees or do they all have actuarial studies degrees where you work?
    Also, doing from your course were there many other job opportunities with regards maths like investment banking or trading or would they come from straight maths?

    Sorry about all the questions, it's just difficult to get answers for my questions elsewhere.

    A career as an actuary is not a boring job. I love my job!

    Companies can take on people with maths degrees but remember at a job interview you'll be up against another graduate who might have an actuarial degree and 4-8 exemptions, so depending on the person they are looking for, you might lose out. It depends though who they are looking for.

    Like I said in the other thread, if you know that you want to be an actuary, do an actuarial science course - don't bother with a maths course. It's going to take you long enough to qualify even with exemptions under your belt after college, nevermind nearly starting from scratch with just a maths science course (you'd prob just get the stats exemption from the maths course). Even afterwards, if you don't want an actuarial career, the actuarial science degree is still really beneficial - you can go into trading, investment banking, risk, anything - an actuarial degree incorporates some of the technical maths you'd get in the maths science course along with some business-type subjects which would all be more beneficial to you no matter what financial career you went into, rather than a maths course.


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    #14
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    From what I've seen from actuarial courses at university, the mathematics involved tends to be rather a bit more boring than would be found on a pure mathematics course; if you did well at Higher Level Maths in the leaving cert, and actually enjoyed the mathematics, I would just question whether you might really enjoy actuarial science as much as a broader and perhaps more rigorous course of study as pure mathematics.

    I looked into Actuary when I was doing my leaving certificate, but I ended up going for Economics and Mathematics for the above reason.

    I studied alongside students who have subsequently gone into the actuary field, and I don't think the exemptions argument applicable to actuarial science students is an especially valid one. For one thing, if actuarial science turns out not to particularly spark your interest as you had anticipated, I wonder if this might affect your motivation or capability to satisfy the exemption requirements. After all, they're not exactly guaranteed merely on foot of enrolling in actuarial science.


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    #15
    ele1992
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭ele1992


    later12 wrote: »
    From what I've seen from actuarial courses at university, the mathematics involved tends to be rather a bit more boring than would be found on a pure mathematics course; if you did well at Higher Level Maths in the leaving cert, and actually enjoyed the mathematics, I would just question whether you might really enjoy actuarial science as much as a broader and perhaps more rigorous course of study as pure mathematics.

    I looked into Actuary when I was doing my leaving certificate, but I ended up going for Economics and Mathematics for the above reason.

    I studied alongside students who have subsequently gone into the actuary field, and I don't think the exemptions argument applicable to actuarial science students is an especially valid one. For one thing, if actuarial science turns out not to particularly spark your interest as you had anticipated, I wonder if this might affect your motivation or capability to satisfy the exemption requirements. After all, they're not exactly guaranteed merely on foot of enrolling in actuarial science.

    Where did you do Economics and Mathematics? Just out of interest, what career did you chose from this course?


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    #16
    Declan Lander
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Declan Lander


    Do you like numbers ?, you'll have to like numbers to like that job.
    i.e. can you do it 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 40 years ?


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    #17
    Yakuza
    Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    later12 wrote: »
    From what I've seen from actuarial courses at university, the mathematics involved tends to be rather a bit more boring than would be found on a pure mathematics course; .

    Ah no, it's not that boring. I just sat the CT4 (Modelling) exam today and there were questions on the paper relating to traffic warden exam pass rates, floodlights in baseball matches and alien zombies. Alien. Zombies. I sh1t you not. How can that be boring!!!?:)


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