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Legality of filming Gardaí in public

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  • 25-12-2011 2:32am
    #1
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭


    What is the legality of Gardai arresting someone who is filming them? Also, what information are Gardaí obliged to give out at the desk of the public office in a Gardaí station and at the scene of an arrest?

    Or to re-phrase, what information are the public allowed to request either at the scene of arrest or at the Garda station about an arrest?


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    #2
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    If you aren't the one being arrested you are entitled to know nothing.

    There is no offence for filming a garda but if you are directed to leave an area and you don't then that is an offence.


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    #3
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    Also if you get in the way, ie get right up in the members faces while filming them, and making it awkward for them to do their job, you may be arrested for obstruction.

    You may also have your camera seized as evidence in certain circumstances, depending on the seriousness of the case or if someone is injured during the arrest. Your camera and footage could be vital evidence to prove, or disprove the case, and the Gardai are obliged to collect all video evidence as per DPP V Bradish.


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    #4
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    Someone I know was arrested last night seemingly at random when a crowd gathered on the street. The person arrested was on the foot path filming the people on the street with his camera phone.

    Seems as if the Gardaí were just frustrated at having to clear off a large group of people(400+) on Christmas eve. The legality of arrests sometimes fall in to a grey area and in cases like these it's probably not worth chasing up as he was released after a couple of hours in the station.

    Thanks for the replies, happy Christmas!


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    #5
    ANSI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭ANSI


    MagicSean wrote: »
    If you aren't the one being arrested you are entitled to know nothing.

    There is no offence for filming a garda but if you are directed to leave an area and you don't then that is an offence.


    why should you leave the area if you are not doing anything wrong? that seems a handy get out clause for the garda who do not like being filmed


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    #6
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    ANSI wrote: »
    why should you leave the area if you are not doing anything wrong? that seems a handy get out clause for the garda who do not like being filmed

    If your directed to leave an area you must leave. If you feel you have been directed unfairly you are free to argue that in court.


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    #7
    ANSI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭ANSI


    MagicSean wrote: »
    If your directed to leave an area you must leave. If you feel you have been directed unfairly you are free to argue that in court.
    if the court agrees with you what happens to the garda who unfairly directed you? they direct you under the public order act? what if you are not doing anything but filming?


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    #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Before they film, do they not have to have your permission to use your face in a video?

    I always assumed thats why most of the rte news shopping snippets etc always show the feet of the people being recorded, it is becasue the don't have peoples permission to show their faces?


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    #9
    ANSI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭ANSI


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Before they film, do they not have to have your permission to use your face in a video?

    I always assumed thats why most of the rte news shopping snippets etc always show the feet of the people being recorded, it is becasue the don't have peoples permission to show their faces?
    I think if you are in a public place you can be filmed but since the shopping snippets are for commercial use i.e the film maker will get a payment so they would need permission. I may be drunk wrong


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    #10
    Stripey Cat
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Stripey Cat


    ANSI wrote: »
    I think if you are in a public place you can be filmed but since the shopping snippets are for commercial use i.e the film maker will get a payment so they would need permission. I may be drunk wrong

    I thinks it's more a worry that if they film a random crowd to illustrate an item about infidelity or obesity or something, then the particular people pictured might get upset.

    To address the OP, anyone can film or photograph the gardaí in public places, and a person arrested for doing so should make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman.


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    #11
    ANSI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭ANSI


    Stripey Cat wrote: »
    To address the OP, anyone can film or photograph the gardaí in public places, and a person arrested for doing so should make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman.
    and what would be the outcome if the garda invoke a law-public order?- to get someone who is not doing anything but filming to leave on threat of arrest


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    #12
    Stripey Cat
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Stripey Cat


    ANSI wrote: »
    and what would be the outcome if the garda invoke a law-public order?- to get someone who is not doing anything but filming to leave on threat of arrest

    They could do that it in any circumstances I suppose, and force anyone they don't like to leave any area.

    However, it would get very difficult to justify doing it very often, especially if the person filming calls their bluff and refuses to move.


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    #13
    opti76
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    Stripey Cat wrote: »
    I thinks it's more a worry that if they film a random crowd to illustrate an item about infidelity or obesity or something, then the particular people pictured might get upset.

    To address the OP, anyone can film or photograph the gardaí in public places, and a person arrested for doing so should make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman.

    this is very misleading .. yes you can film a garda but you cannot publish the images without the consent of the press office if the member concerned can be clearly identified.. i dont have the statute to hand but there was a discussion about this recently in the photography forum.

    but if you are filming an arrest be aware that DPP-vs_ Braddish compels gardai to sieze any and all cctv of an offence. this would include mobile phones camcorders etc.


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    #14
    Stripey Cat
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Stripey Cat


    opti76 wrote: »
    this is very misleading .. yes you can film a garda but you cannot publish the images without the consent of the press office if the member concerned can be clearly identified..

    I think your post is the misleading one, to be honest.

    You might want to have a look at indymedia.ie or even just youtube.

    http://youtu.be/tSMF4GgnC_I



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    #15
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,332 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    MagicSean wrote: »
    ....if you are directed to leave an area and you don't then that is an offence.

    How does that tally with the constitutional right of free assembly?


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    #16
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    coylemj wrote: »
    How does that tally with the constitutional right of free assembly?

    Maybe you should first read the article you are attempting to invoke. It's fairly easy to see how it tallys, even for a novice in the legal field.


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    #17
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    MagicSean wrote: »
    coylemj wrote: »
    How does that tally with the constitutional right of free assembly?

    Maybe you should first read the article you are attempting to invoke. It's fairly easy to see how it tallys, even for a novice in the legal field.

    Agreed, for your perusal coylemj:

    The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

    The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.

    The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.

    The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.

    The right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms.

    Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either House of the Oireachtas.

    The main thing to take from the article, is it is subject to public order and morality.


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    #18
    opti76
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    Stripey Cat wrote: »
    I think your post is the misleading one, to be honest.

    You might want to have a look at indymedia.ie or even just youtube.

    http://youtu.be/tSMF4GgnC_I

    i think your very wrong to quote indymedia or youtube as a source. trust me ive invoked dpp vs braddish to secure footage .. in the 4 cases ive had people were only to willing to hand over the footage. all camera footage of assaults including one of an assault of a colleague. but if they weren't i would have seized it.


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    #19
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Most people I see Filming anything are let be the police or fire etc don't care.

    However the people who tend to get sent away are there acting like a Pork chop at the scene. Their presence makes things more heated and risks further trouble. By right they should be sent away and if the refuse arrested.


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    #20
    Stripey Cat
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Stripey Cat


    opti76 wrote: »
    i think your very wrong to quote indymedia or youtube as a source. trust me ive invoked dpp vs braddish to secure footage .. in the 4 cases ive had people were only to willing to hand over the footage. all camera footage of assaults including one of an assault of a colleague. but if they weren't i would have seized it.


    I was not quoting Indymedia or Youtube as a source, but as an example of a place where you can see lots of film of gardaí, without anyone getting permission from the Garda Press Office, which you seem to think is necessary.

    Here are some questions for you?

    Have you ever stopped someone filming in a public place?

    Have you ever seized a private citizen's property, against their will, to access footage filmed in a public place?


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    #21
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Mind you when the British Police are arresting people for the entertainment of Sky One viewers they regularly quote the fact that the filming is taking place in a public place and they are entitled too.


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    #22
    0O7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 229 ✭✭0O7


    Stripey Cat wrote: »

    To address the OP, anyone can film or photograph the gardaí in public places, and a person arrested for doing so should make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman.

    I think your wrong....

    ANYONE cannot film Gardai...

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0039/sec0008.html#sec8


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    #23
    Stripey Cat
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭Stripey Cat


    0O7 wrote: »
    I think your wrong....

    ANYONE cannot film Gardai...

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0039/sec0008.html#sec8

    This is where that link leads:

    It shall be an offence for a person to collect, record or possess information which is of such a nature that it is likely to be useful in the commission by members of any unlawful organisation of serious offences generally or any particular kind of serious offence.
    It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that at the time of the alleged offence the information in question was not being collected or recorded by him or her, or in his or her possession, for the purpose of its being used in such commission of any serious offence or offences.

    I'd love to hear what you think that has to do with filming in public.


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    #24
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    Zambia wrote: »
    However the people who tend to get sent away are there acting like a Pork chop at the scene.

    Brilliant!

    I had something similar happen a few years ago.
    Finished work at the bar and 3 of us went for a kebab and sat down to eat outside on a bench.
    Big fight broke out between two groups of lads and we were sitting there watching it all. Garda were running all over the place trying to catch one. (admittedly we thought it was hilarious since at 4am we had only but contempt for drunk people!)

    Garda came over and quoted some section to us and instructed us to move away. We werent doing anything and clearly were eating but just moved as it seemed he was just looking for a reason to arrest us.


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    #25
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    castie wrote: »
    Garda came over and quoted some section to us and instructed us to move away. We werent doing anything and clearly were eating but just moved as it seemed he was just looking for a reason to arrest us.

    Believe me he was probably looking for a reason not to arrest you.

    If you were shouting making comments or doing anything the drunks mates may find offensive , a fight could have ensued. To prevent that it was best you move along.

    At the end of the night you all came home safely.


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