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11-10-2011, 23:58   #1
Chickenwing
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Child being charged adult on DART

So seeing as they took child off the vending machines and sometimes there is no guy at the desk I have to pay for adult price for a ticket....... If there is a guy when I come back can I get my money back that I paid for an adult ticket so that he's just left with the child price?
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12-10-2011, 11:15   #2
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So seeing as they took child off the vending machines and sometimes there is no guy at the desk I have to pay for adult price for a ticket....... If there is a guy when I come back can I get my money back that I paid for an adult ticket so that he's just left with the child price?

You might get a better response if you post in Commuting and Transport.
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12-10-2011, 15:00   #3
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So seeing as they took child off the vending machines and sometimes there is no guy at the desk I have to pay for adult price for a ticket....... If there is a guy when I come back can I get my money back that I paid for an adult ticket so that he's just left with the child price?
Can you not buy a child ticket in the vending machines now? If there is no booking office open and you are unable to buy your chosen ticket from the machine you are surely entitled to travel without a ticket and purchase one when you reach your destination?
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12-10-2011, 16:29   #4
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Can you not buy a child ticket in the vending machines now? If there is no booking office open and you are unable to buy your chosen ticket from the machine you are surely entitled to travel without a ticket and purchase one when you reach your destination?
You are.

You are also not obliged to use the TVM at all if the booking office is closed, the bye laws don't cover their existence. A TVM-only station is classed as unmanned; one with a closed booking office is classed as, well, closed.
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12-10-2011, 19:51   #5
Losty Dublin
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You are.

You are also not obliged to use the TVM at all if the booking office is closed, the bye laws don't cover their existence. A TVM-only station is classed as unmanned; one with a closed booking office is classed as, well, closed.
If that is the case, can you and Foggy explain Irish Rail's successfully prosecuting people not buying tickets where TVM's are the only means of buying same?

I know for a fact* that they are prosecuting people under these circumstances in the courts, that they are winning cases aplenty under these circumstances, that judges are siding with them under this point and that this urban myth about TVM's not covered under laws is just that, an urban myth.

*Source is a staff member, I can supply his/her name to moderators if required.
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12-10-2011, 21:38   #6
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If that is the case, can you and Foggy explain Irish Rail's successfully prosecuting people not buying tickets where TVM's are the only means of buying same?

I know for a fact* that they are prosecuting people under these circumstances in the courts, that they are winning cases aplenty under these circumstances, that judges are siding with them under this point and that this urban myth about TVM's not covered under laws is just that, an urban myth.

*Source is a staff member, I can supply his/her name to moderators if required.
Because absolutely nobody is defending themselves properly?

READ the bye laws. Find any mention of a TVM. There isn't any, despite Irish Rail having already deployed TVMs extensively (Maynooth line, albeit they were later decomissioned) by the time of those laws being written. Absolutely no urban myth here. And I mean the actual bye laws, not the interpretation thereof on Irish Rail's website.

Additionally, anyone from boards who has appealed on this grounds has been told the case is being dropped.

You may also want to consider that your source is misinformed about what grounds they are winning under.
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12-10-2011, 21:43   #7
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This is the actual text of the actual bye law which is what is in force, not IE's intepretation thereof:

"Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, or where any person is instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket at the booking office so as not to delay the departure of the train from the station, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train."

Where does it mention a TVM there?

When there is no open booking office, you are allowed board the train and must buy your ticket at the other end or from staff on board. There is no other interpretation that can be made. There is no explanation of "booking office" that can possibly include a TVM
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12-10-2011, 21:45   #8
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We had the exact same circular discussion recently - it really depends on how you define "booking office".

Can we return to the OP's question please?
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13-10-2011, 00:05   #9
Losty Dublin
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Because absolutely nobody is defending themselves properly?

READ the bye laws. Find any mention of a TVM. There isn't any, despite Irish Rail having already deployed TVMs extensively (Maynooth line, albeit they were later decomissioned) by the time of those laws being written. Absolutely no urban myth here. And I mean the actual bye laws, not the interpretation thereof on Irish Rail's website.

Additionally, anyone from boards who has appealed on this grounds has been told the case is being dropped.

You may also want to consider that your source is misinformed about what grounds they are winning under.
Given that he is more informed about the cases and ticketing and knows it better than either you or me, I am trusting his word on them over yours or the relative anonymity of the odd random hard done by person we hear of on here. I know he pops on here the odd time and that he even had a thread started about him on here once; his claim to fame if ever!

Back onto the thread.....
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13-10-2011, 10:18   #10
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Originally Posted by Chickenwing View Post
So seeing as they took child off the vending machines and sometimes there is no guy at the desk I have to pay for adult price for a ticket....... If there is a guy when I come back can I get my money back that I paid for an adult ticket so that he's just left with the child price?
OP, I'd get in touch with IE to explain the situation and ask why you can no longer buy a child ticket from the vending machine and what you should do in such a case.

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Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed
what exactly does that mean, "Where the Board gives notice", is it a cover all, should it not mean there should be visible notice of times the station is staff or opened??
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13-10-2011, 18:56   #11
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Given that he is more informed about the cases and ticketing and knows it better than either you or me, I am trusting his word on them over yours or the relative anonymity of the odd random hard done by person we hear of on here. I know he pops on here the odd time and that he even had a thread started about him on here once; his claim to fame if ever!

Back onto the thread.....
And I'm not trusting him at all until he stops being a third party.
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13-10-2011, 19:48   #12
Losty Dublin
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And I'm not trusting him at all until he stops being a third party.
I won't be losing sleep over your doubts
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14-10-2011, 17:56   #13
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OP, I'd get in touch with IE to explain the situation and ask why you can no longer buy a child ticket from the vending machine
This bit is to stop adults travelling on child fares.
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15-10-2011, 08:39   #14
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This bit is to stop adults travelling on child fares.
So IE are effectively allowing children to travel free after 5pm and before 8am from most stations as most booking offices are closed outside of those times?
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