[article] TDs fear backlash over new €100,000 'Dail TV' channel

Apogee · 06-10-2011 10:15AM #1

Irish Independent wrote:

TDs fear backlash over new €100,000 'Dail TV' channel

By Michael Brennan
Thursday October 06 2011

A new 'Dail TV' channel will be up and running by the end of the year -- but TDs are fearful of a public backlash.

The channel will be broadcast to a limited number of cities -- with Cork, Dublin and Galway expected to be among the chosen few -- on a pilot basis.

The estimated cost of the pilot is around €20,000 for a month -- but this sum would reach €100,000 for a full year.

An Oireachtas Commission confirmed last night that it was exploring the possibility of a parliamentary channel at minimal cost.

"It's early days and no decision has been taken yet," a spokesman said.

All Dail and Seanad debates are filmed live and are available for viewing on the Oireachtas website -- as are committee meetings.

A political source confirmed that the current plan is to have the new channel transmitted on a pilot basis by the end of the year.

It would be possible to use the new RTE digital TV service Saorview to broadcast the channel.

But there are signs already that TDs are opposed to the plan because they know it will generate a public backlash.

The issue was discussed yesterday by the all-party Joint Administrative Committee and a source said there was "huge resistance" to the plan there.

The most common argument was that it was hard to justify spending any money on it due to two factors -- the economic recession and the limited public appetite for such a channel.

Not quite sure why they propose limiting it to a few cities - using the second mux in those cities only, but not anywhere else? Or transmit it over UPC's cable network?

Johnboy1951 · 06-10-2011 10:27AM

The channel will be broadcast to a limited number of cities -- with Cork, Dublin and Galway expected to be among the chosen few -- on a pilot basis.

Seems ridiculous .... maybe be no interest in their 'doings' in the rest of the country .... ye think?

Put it up on Saorview before ASO and see how it fares out.
They should have done so during the complete testing phase.

Machinehead · 06-10-2011 10:29AM

I don't think that cost is the overriding issue for the elected Dáil & Seanad representatives. I also think that they are fully aware that public opinion on the cost is the issue but in reality it's the appalling attendance at Dáil sessions which will be live on air for the electorate to see at the click of the channel button.

mike65 · 06-10-2011 10:35AM

There should be a Dail channel (with coverage of committees and so on) and 100k is a piddling amount, not sure why trailing this on parts of the UPC network makes any sense when RTE News Now is up and running. But then maybe I'm missing something.

Gerry Wicklow · 06-10-2011 11:44AM

Machinehead wrote: »

I don't think that cost is the overriding issue for the elected Dáil & Seanad representatives. I also think that they are fully aware that public opinion on the cost is the issue but in reality it's the appalling attendance at Dáil sessions which will be live on air for the electorate to see at the click of the channel button.

+1

If all of this is currently being filmed anyway for the website then the only extra cost would be transmission fees. Either way the taxpayer will be funding the costs from the Dáil budget or RTÉNL, it's all smoke and mirrors IMO.
Also, why give it to UPC, a commercial company rather than a national network?

The Cush · 06-10-2011 12:44PM

+1 to all of the above.

Get it onto Saorview, what do they mean on a pilot basis in a number of areas?

Our taxes pay for the Oireachtas and the transmisssion network, do they now plan to restrict it a commercial cable network?

I believe the additional €100,000 p.a. (transmission costs?) is a small addition to the current €2 million plus cost of televising the Oireachtas. Let the country see what they do live Dail, Seanad and Committes. Many people don't have access to broadband or knowledge how to view the current online service.

Three paragraphs from the paper edition are not included in the online article

Former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern suggested in 2007 that a dedicated channel with coverage of Dail and Seanad and Oireachtas committees could replace the current "rubbish" on the TV schedules.

The final decision on the new channel will be made by the Oireachtas Commission headed by Ceann Comhairle Sean Barrett.

It is due to meet at the end of next month.

With the decision to be made at the end of the month maybe people should make their opinions known to the Ceann Comhairle Sean Barrett and the Oireachtas Commission

sean.barrett@oireachtas.ie
ceann.comhairle@oireachtas.ie

The current 2011 estimate for televising the Oireachtas is €1.858 million with an additional €385,000 required before the end of the year.

This from the Minutes of the Commission meeting, Tuesday 19th July, 2011

18. PARLIAMENTARY CHANNEL.

The Ceann Comhairle reported progress on the considerations of the project team established to assess the options available for the development and launch of a parliamentary channel and the cost effectiveness of the various options. The Commission noted that a policy proposal in this matter will be submitted to the Joint Administration Committee for its views and subsequently on to the Commission for final consideration and decision.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/commission/m260111.pdf

TheDriver · 06-10-2011 12:57PM

the dail stuff is incredibly boring when they waffle on about some local crap with 3 people in the dail, don't blame poor attendance at times....

10000maniacs · 06-10-2011 01:49PM

If the feeds are available already, how is it going to cost anything?
Just replace one of those testcards currently on Saorview with the Dail TV channel. How is that €20,000 per month broken down? A public enquiry should be held as to why its going to cost €20,000 per Month. its a load of codswallop if you ask me.

The Cush · 06-10-2011 02:10PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Just replace one of those testcards currently on Saorview with the Dail TV channel. How is that €20,000 per month broken down? A public enquiry should be held as to why its going to cost €20,000 per Month.

Unfortunately they haven't uploaded the transcript or video of the Joint Administrative Committee (yet?) where this was discussed so we don't know how the €20k/€100k is broken down but my guess it's the transmission and distribution cost for terrestrial/cable?. It won't be carried FOC. The existing channels on Saorview pay a lot more than that for carriage.

Minstrel27 · 09-10-2011 02:05AM

Outrageous that this will be available to only some of the population. It shouldbe available to all.

icdg · 09-10-2011 09:14PM

Apogee wrote: »

Not quite sure why they propose limiting it to a few cities - using the second mux in those cities only, but not anywhere else? Or transmit it over UPC's cable network?

Very few people in Dublin use terrestrial on their main sets, so Saorview is not a good way to get it to a Dublin audience. UPC is by far the dominent provider in Dublin so that would be the best bet.

But agreed, any Oireachtas channel should be across all platforms and nationwide.

And on that note, moving to Broadcasting.

afatbollix · 09-10-2011 09:24PM

The Cush wrote: »

Our taxes pay for the Oireachtas and the transmisssion network, do they now plan to restrict it a commercial cable network?

I believe the additional €100,000 p.a. (transmission costs?) is a small addition to the current €2 million plus cost of televising the Oireachtas. Let the country see what they do live Dail, Seanad and Committes. Many people don't have access to broadband or knowledge how to view the current online service.

I work in Producing Tv channels in the UK & Ireland 100k is very cheap for running a tv channel. As this TV would mostly be live you would need alot of staff to run the channel its not like you can just show nothing to air People will just turn over.

Your talking about 20 people doing 50 hour weeks here to run the channels. + cost for all the equipment.

ted1 · 09-10-2011 09:26PM

It would prove useful to students. It will help them understand why our country is in such a bad state. As well as see how the oireachtas works.

Johnboy1951 · 09-10-2011 11:04PM

afatbollix wrote: »

I work in Producing Tv channels in the UK & Ireland 100k is very cheap for running a tv channel. As this TV would mostly be live you would need alot of staff to run the channel its not like you can just show nothing to air People will just turn over.

Your talking about 20 people doing 50 hour weeks here to run the channels. + cost for all the equipment.

I don't see it .... the equipment is there and in use. It is used to stream to the internet I believe.
I don't see much cost in hooking the same stream to Saorview .... except for the carrier cost.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/Web-Live.htm

The Cush · 10-10-2011 12:49AM

afatbollix wrote: »

I work in Producing Tv channels in the UK & Ireland 100k is very cheap for running a tv channel. As this TV would mostly be live you would need alot of staff to run the channel its not like you can just show nothing to air People will just turn over.

Your talking about 20 people doing 50 hour weeks here to run the channels. + cost for all the equipment.

Televising the Oireachtas will cost in the region €2.2 this year (see my post above). The extra €100,000 probably applies to distribution/transmission charges.

Was_SeeDot · 17-10-2011 10:54PM

Apogee wrote: »

Not quite sure why they propose limiting it to a few cities - using the second mux in those cities only, but not anywhere else? Or transmit it over UPC's cable network?

Last year David Harvey from City Channel presented to the Joint Administrative Committee about putting the Oireachtas content onto a UPC channel using the infrastructure he had in Sandyford which delivered the City Channel and UPC Info Channel service.

Perhaps this is the service that will be limited to certain cities - with carraige on saorview awaiting a resolution of the RTE NL carraige cost issue.

Of course the receivership in City Channel may affect who the contractor is.

Apogee · 17-10-2011 11:01PM

Link:
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/JAC/2010/04/21/00002.asp

The Cush · 17-10-2011 11:01PM

There was an article in yesterday's Irish Mail on Sunday on this

The Cush · 01-11-2011 03:11AM

An article in the Sunday Independent reminded me of the discussion we had in early Oct

The cost of TV coverage for publicity hungry TDs and senators is also €381,000 higher than expected.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/so-much-for-austerity-dail-overrun-costs-to-set-us-back-euro139m-2921091.html

Since that time the Minutes of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Meeting of 27 September 2011 have been published on the Dail website. The following is from the minutes

Parliamentary channel.

Arising from the minutes, the Ceann Comhairle announced that subject to technical and
contractual requirements being met, pilot transmissions of Dáil proceedings will
commence in October 2011. A live feed of the proceedings will be redirected from the
Oireachtas broadcasting unit to a UPC channel. Contractually it is only possible to
transmit one House at a time so the pilot will be based on Dáil proceedings. Plans will
be put in place to air recorded sittings of the Seanad and Committees during non-sitting
Dáil periods and weekends. There are no costs involved in this pilot phase.

The Ceann Comhairle confirmed that in the meantime a project team is continuing to
assess the options for the development and launch of the parliamentary channel itself.
This involves addressing the legal, procurement, regulatory and costs factors associated
with the project. The project team is being assisted by an external consultant with
expertise in this area. The Commission noted that a policy proposal in this matter will
be submitted to the Joint Administration Committee for its views and subsequently on
to the Commission for final consideration and decision. Timeframes for commencement
and completion dates will be included in the policy proposal to be decided by the
Commission.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/commission/27092011.pdf

The original article in this thread was about a private meeting of the Joint Administration Committee on the 5th Oct, a week after the above Houses of the Oireachtas Committee meeting, which discussed the Dail TV proposal.

At the time we didn't know what was meant by pilot basis but UPC was speculated. The quote from the minutes above does indicate that the plan is/was to carry it on UPC.

According to the the original newspaper article a decision is to be made by the Houses Commission at its next meeting at the end of Nov.

Johnboy1951 · 01-11-2011 04:51PM

A live feed of the proceedings will be redirected from the Oireachtas broadcasting unit to a UPC channel.

I just do not understand the thinking behind this at all.

What is wrong with using Saorview at this time? It seems to be the logical thing to do, as if this does come about it will have to be carried there anyway.
It is not as if there is no space available ........

icdg · 01-11-2011 09:02PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I just do not understand the thinking behind this at all.

What is wrong with using Saorview at this time? It seems to be the logical thing to do, as if this does come about it will have to be carried there anyway.
It is not as if there is no space available ........

I can think of only one reason and it is money. UPC may be offering to carry it for free. RTÉ would no doubt look for the Oireachtas Commission to foot the full transmission costs for the channel.

The Cush · 15-11-2011 05:35PM

Business of Dáil
Tuesday, 15 November 2011

An Ceann Comhairle: I am pleased to inform Members that as of 2 p.m. today, the proceedings of the House will be broadcast live on channel 801 on the UPC network, as part of a trial initiative for a period of six months. This trial is being provided at no cost to the Exchequer. As Ceann Comhairle, I am particularly pleased that the notion of increased access to the work of Parliament and its Members is being enhanced with the launch of this initiative.

I would like particularly to record my thanks to Dana Strong, chief executive of UPC Ireland, and her team, who have been innovative in their approach and who have proven their commitment to this project from the start. I am excited by the possibilities of this project and I hope that the public will use this facility to follow the work of the Houses of the Oireachtas.

I would also like to welcome Dana Strong from UPC to the Distinguished Visitors Gallery.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/11/15/00003.asp

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/2011/11/15/00003.asp#N13
http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/aboutoireachtastv/
http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/pressreleases/name-2733-en.html

Discussion on the "new Oireachtas TV channel" with Ceann Comhairle Seán Barrett on RTÉ Radio 1's Drivetime programme.
RTÉ Player - http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A3111086%3A83%3A15%2D11%2D2011%3A (start at 1:49:25)

News reports
http://www.thejournal.ie/new-dedicated-oireachtas-tv-channel-launches-today-279734-Nov2011/
http://www.businessandleadership.com/marketing/item/33200-dedicated-irish/

Ceann Comhairle Seán Barrett and UPC's Dana Strong

rlogue · 16-11-2011 12:48PM

My own view is that it's an essential part of democracy that a national parliament should be available over as many broadcast platforms as possible. Why shouldn't Oireachtas TV be available on Saorview and satellite?

watty · 16-11-2011 02:02PM

Penny pinching.
It could have been FTA on Satellite the last 10 years.
It should have been on Saorview from the start.

The entire infrastructure has been running for years. It's online since for ages and was on the DECNR "political" so called trials run by BT in 2006 to 2008.

It's crazy it should be only on UPC which has ZERO free access.

Johnboy1951 · 16-11-2011 03:22PM

It is a disgrace!

I would urge all who feel this is not right to vent their spleen by emailing the contacts given.

I am disgusted. ...... but I suppose I should not expect anything better from our alleged representatives .....

.... a public service broadcast, available only to a small percentage of the population who can access, and who choose to pay for a commercial service which carries the channel .... yeah! real Irish!

icdg · 16-11-2011 08:40PM

Okay mod hat on first. Can members please refrain from posting very long verbatim articles and press releases.

1. Its a breach of copyright
2. It makes the debate on the thread hard to follow (its essentially split in two)
3. It is absolutely infuriating for anyone reading on a mobile device to scroll through.

Provide the link. If people want to read it, they'll click on. If people don't click on, its not because their lazy, its because **they don't want to read it**. So don't force them to. Okay.

Mod hat off.

To the UPC v Saorview debate - UPC carriage instantly gets the channel into most urban homes. Most people in Dublin don't have Saorview and have no intention of getting Saorview.

UPC has a potential 1 million viewers. That's over a quarter of the population of the State. And UPC is carrying the channel for free.

We don't know what RTÉ's commercial terms for the carriage of the channel would be, but we can take a fair guess that they would involve payment of the full costs of transmission. That isn't something the Oireachtas Commission's budget can observe. The country is broke. It is a luxury we cannot afford.

So unless RTÉ is willing to make this gesture, then Oireachtas TV will likely remain UPC-exclusive.

This isn't me being pro-UPC by the way. I'm all for platform neutrality - all Irish stations being available on all platforms. I'd like RTÉ One+1, RTÉ Two HD, RTÉjr, and RTÉ News Now to be on UPC digital - as the Broadcasting Act 2009 mandates they should be. However while RTÉ refuses to pay ball, I'm not spending hundreds of euros to get a rooftop aerial installed and on Saorview STBs just to get three channels primarly composed of simulcasts and repeats.

Minstrel27 · 16-11-2011 09:11PM

I received this email today after questioning why the channel is appearing on UPC only. they responded with

Dear Minstrel,

I refer to you email below regarding Oireachtas TV. UPC are the only company who agreed to take the broadcast feed from the Oireachtas. The other broadcasters have been kept informed of developments and it is always open to them to take our feed and broadcast it on RTÉ/Saorview or Sky. In fact we would very much welcome it if they did. If at any stage in the future this happens, we will announce it to the media in the usual way to inform people who may be interested in viewing what goes on in the Dáil, Seanad and the Oireachtas Committees.

I hope this clarifies the position for you.

Regards,

Communications Unit,
Tel. (01) 6183910.

They are penny pinching and by doing so are denying television viewers in non UPC areas from seeing what is going on in Dáil Éireann.

Before someone suggests watching via broadband, this is not a practical solution for people who do not have broadband available to them.

watty · 17-11-2011 01:45AM

It not practical also for many people with pretty good Broadband. Average Cap is maybe 30 GByte and regular video watching (by one person, two people with different stuff is x2) and all the other BB stuff you are soon over 100GByte.

watty · 17-11-2011 01:52AM

icdg wrote: »

O but we can take a fair guess that they would involve payment of the full costs of transmission. That isn't something the Oireachtas Commission's budget can observe. The country is broke. It is a luxury we cannot afford.

Sheer nonsense. There is more wasted in Government that would pay for this x5 over.

It's stupidity. They will waste Millions to Billions on nonsense. I've been able to get the parliamentary proceedings of lots of poorer countries than Ireland for years.

It's the Typical attitude of successive Governments too also to denigrate RTE in case they actually might ever do decent Political comment.

There is NO excuse to not pay the money. And to be FTA on 28E to over Ireland and UK. No Rights issues.

Typical lack of vision and begrudgery of Infantile Irish politicians.

GusherING · 18-11-2011 12:38AM

Minstrel27 wrote: »

I received this email today after questioning why the channel is appearing on UPC only. they responded with

They are penny pinching and by doing so are denying television viewers in non UPC areas from seeing what is going on in Dáil Éireann.

Before someone suggests watching via broadband, this is not a practical solution for people who do not have broadband available to them.

In fairness, the penny pinching seems to be done by RTE in this case. They are a public service broadcaster and broadcasting this should be part of their remit.

You can't blame the Oireachtas for being reluctant to spend more taxpayers money.(how often do you hear that being said!:rolleyes:)

Imagine what people would be saying if they spent more of it!!

watty · 18-11-2011 02:26AM

A PSB is not the same as a Charity.

a)
No-one should be getting a free ride.

b)
RTENL is NOT a PSB. They are purely a Distribution and Transmission company. TV3, TG4, RTE all pay for transmission.

[article] TDs fear backlash over new €100,000 'Dail TV' channel

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