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Save the Right of Way to Fenit Island Castle

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  • 07-07-2011 7:23pm
    #1
    Fenitdude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭


    People have walked to Fenit Island Castle for generations and have enjoyed all the beauty the Island has to offer. But in the last number of years two landowners have erected fencing at the back of the island preventing people from walking around the Island, this has caused alot of anger among locals, this fencing looks terrible and is also dangerous as people attempting to access the Castle by climbing dangerous rocks to get there may end up getting seriously injured or worse, people do not want to trespass on lands but only want to walk around the shoreline which now is almost impossible to do so in a safe manner. One of these landowners in particular has threatened and bullied anyone attempting to walk the coastal path to the castle and people are fed up with this behavior and now there is another protest walk planned for July 24th, there is also a very active Facebook page where you can see what all this issue is about.


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    #2
    yellowfish
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭yellowfish


    Fenitdude wrote: »
    People have walked to Fenit Island Castle for generations and have enjoyed all the beauty the Island has to offer. But in the last number of years two landowners have erected fencing at the back of the island preventing people from walking around the Island, this has caused alot of anger among locals, this fencing looks terrible and is also dangerous as people attempting to access the Castle by climbing dangerous rocks to get there may end up getting seriously injured or worse, people do not want to trespass on lands but only want to walk around the shoreline which now is almost impossible to do so in a safe manner. One of these landowners in particular has threatened and bullied anyone attempting to walk the coastal path to the castle and people are fed up with this behavior and now there is another protest walk planned for July 24th, there is also a very active Facebook page where you can see what all this issue is about.

    The fences leading down to the beach are shocking, as is the attitude behind them.


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    #3
    theaceofspies
    Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭theaceofspies


    Just playing Devils Advocate here for a monent but what does the Law of the Land have to say on this matter? Ultimately this is the arbitration we have to abide by and respect in order to all live together in peace.


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    #4
    carchaeologist
    Registered Users Posts: 11,318 ✭✭✭✭carchaeologist


    Is there actually a right of way to the castle?


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    #5
    Jude Saint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Jude Saint


    The Island extends to a total of circa 440 acres and has long been farmed and has supported many families for centuries. It is reputed to be the birthplace of St Brendan and it has a 16 century castle which is a national heritage site.

    At the time of the famine there were circa 600 people resident on the island which had two churches and a graveyard. People from the village and remote dwellings in the area would travel to Fenit Island to attend mass.

    The right of way on unproductive land and foreshore around the perimeter of the island was established in that distant past. It was not until 15 years ago when a provincial solicitor from County Clare inherited his uncle’s 70 acre holding on the island that fences were erected across the public footpaths. He does not farm the land nor reside on the island – he does have a holiday home in the region.

    The same man has dragged his neighbours through the courts over a period of years and the whole community have now united to challenge his unacceptable behaviour.


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    #6
    Jude Saint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Jude Saint


    A measure of the depth of feeling within the quiet community of the Kerry fishing village of Fenit can be guaged at the following Facebook page.

    http://www.facebook.com/savefenitisland

    The villagers also plan to walk around the island in protest at the delial of access to the island on Sunday 24 July. This is the third in a series of such walks. Previous walks have attracted close to 500 villagers and their supporters.

    The extent to which the Fenit Island landowners hostile to the public using the age-old path are prepared to go in order to intimidate their neighbours an dthe public can be seen in the account of a recent case heard in a Tralee court and reported in the Kerryman.

    http://www.kerryman.ie/news/neighbouring-farmers-at-odds-over-fort-knoxstyle-fence-2814186.html


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    #7
    theaceofspies
    Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭theaceofspies


    3 sides to every story. Your side, their side and the truth.


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    #8
    Jude Saint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Jude Saint


    Tens of thousands of 'hits' on the campaign Facebook page, hundreds of posts supporting the campaign and not a single post in support of the obscene fencing and awful behaviour of the 3 landowners involved. You know what - I'm really comfortable being on 'our' side.

    Thank you anyway for your own posting. Hopefully we'll see you at the next community protest walk to Fenit Island on 24 July - sitting on the fence maybe?

    Thank you again.


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    #9
    carchaeologist
    Registered Users Posts: 11,318 ✭✭✭✭carchaeologist


    Him being a solicitor probably means he knows exactly his rights though? Sounds like a pretty awkward situation.


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    #10
    Jul3s
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Jul3s


    Jude Saint wrote: »
    Tens of thousands of 'hits' on the campaign Facebook page, hundreds of posts supporting the campaign and not a single post in support of the obscene fencing and awful behaviour of the 3 landowners involved. You know what - I'm really comfortable being on 'our' side.

    Thank you anyway for your own posting. Hopefully we'll see you at the next community protest walk to Fenit Island on 24 July - sitting on the fence maybe?

    Thank you again.
    Easy to see how this has spiralled in to it's present mess with that kind of attitude, good luck with your battle with the lawnowners, you're going to need it.


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    #11
    Fenitdude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Fenitdude


    This has spiralled because of the continous aggressive intimidation of people trying to walk the shoreline to the castle, this whole issue is not about walking through landowners fields etc, its about a coastal pathway to the castle that has been used for generations before this guy inherited land from his uncle. There was never any issues or trouble before he inherited land and erected "Fort Knox" style fencing, the offending fencing runs perpendicular to his fields out into the sea, some of this fencing is 8-9ft high and in places runs up to 40ft out onto shoreline and rocks preventing people safe access to the castle, lots of people have been bullied and threatened will walking this age old pathway, so now the whole community have had enough, all the local politicians are fully behind the community and these 3 landowners are in for one hell of a fight, one way or another the offending fencing WILL be removed!


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    #12
    manoverboards
    Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭manoverboards


    Hey Fenitdude,

    This is great, but what about combining this campaign with the right to walk the Fenit/Tralee Railway campaign.
    Just wondering if it is the same people behind the obstruction of both paths by any chance ?


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    #13
    theaceofspies
    Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭theaceofspies


    Sitting on the fence - oh it's a bit like that is it? ouch.
    All this "fighting" talk is hardly the stuff you see in the book of dispute resolution. Has anybody approached the OPW et al about removing these so called illegal fences? If a crime has been committed then the State is there to enforce the law. We all pay our taxes; time to start getting the appropriate Authorities to sort it out one way or another. At least that is the way it is done in other civilised countries.


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    #14
    Fenitdude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Fenitdude


    Kerry County Council will hopefully take a case to have the right of way declared, but in the current economic climate they will be slow as going to the high court costs alot of money and this guy seems to have plenty of it as he has spent an estimated €200k on the fencing, fencing off idle land i might add. So protest walks will continue until the fencing comes down one way or another, the local people of Fenit are sick of the aggressive bullying and threatening behaviour from this guy, people only want to walk the coastal pathway (not walk through his idle fields) to the castle as people have done for hundreds of years before he inherited this land from his uncle. This guy is dispised by everyone in the community bar a few all because of his attitude towards his neighbours, I could go on all day about all the solicitors letters he has sent people(easy for him), one farmer got a letter because he had a bit of rope hanging on the wrong side of a fence, a neighbour got a letter because of a dog barking etc etc, this guy only communicates with people through a letterbox. So roll on the 24th and hopefully we will have close on 6-700 people walking to the castle without fear of imtimidation!!


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    #15
    Williams667
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Williams667


    manoverboards wrote: »
    Hey Fenitdude,

    This is great, but what about combining this campaign with the right to walk the Fenit/Tralee Railway campaign.
    Just wondering if it is the same people behind the obstruction of both paths by any chance ?
    Slight difference, there is a right of way around Fenit island with hundreds of years. No right to invade people's privacy and their security. There would prob be a cycle/walkway in place now aswell if the council didn't try use bully boy tactics like famous and the other gimps in Fenit island


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    #16
    5live
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭5live


    Fenitdude wrote: »
    Kerry County Council will hopefully take a case to have the right of way declared, but in the current economic climate they will be slow as going to the high court costs alot of money and this guy seems to have plenty of it as he has spent an estimated €200k on the fencing, fencing off idle land i might add. So protest walks will continue until the fencing comes down one way or another, the local people of Fenit are sick of the aggressive bullying and threatening behaviour from this guy, people only want to walk the coastal pathway (not walk through his idle fields) to the castle as people have done for hundreds of years before he inherited this land from his uncle. This guy is dispised by everyone in the community bar a few all because of his attitude towards his neighbours, I could go on all day about all the solicitors letters he has sent people(easy for him), one farmer got a letter because he had a bit of rope hanging on the wrong side of a fence, a neighbour got a letter because of a dog barking etc etc, this guy only communicates with people through a letterbox. So roll on the 24th and hopefully we will have close on 6-700 people walking to the castle without fear of imtimidation!!
    Good for you. Because 6-700 people walking to the castle wont be intimidating to the aforementioned landowner:rolleyes:

    If he is within the law the fences stay. If not, they wont. Funny how being in the 'right' leads people to condone intimidation:pac:


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    #17
    Williams667
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Williams667


    carchaeologist wrote: »
    Him being a solicitor probably means he knows exactly his rights though? Sounds like a pretty awkward situation.
    He's a Fu€&@in bully


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    #18
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,982 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Fenitdude wrote: »
    Kerry County Council will hopefully take a case to have the right of way declared, but in the current economic climate they will be slow as going to the high court costs alot of money and this guy seems to have plenty of it as he has spent an estimated €200k on the fencing, fencing off idle land i might add. So protest walks will continue until the fencing comes down one way or another, the local people of Fenit are sick of the aggressive bullying and threatening behaviour from this guy, people only want to walk the coastal pathway (not walk through his idle fields) to the castle as people have done for hundreds of years before he inherited this land from his uncle. This guy is dispised by everyone in the community bar a few all because of his attitude towards his neighbours, I could go on all day about all the solicitors letters he has sent people(easy for him), one farmer got a letter because he had a bit of rope hanging on the wrong side of a fence, a neighbour got a letter because of a dog barking etc etc, this guy only communicates with people through a letterbox. So roll on the 24th and hopefully we will have close on 6-700 people walking to the castle without fear of imtimidation!!


    It's a sh1t looking fence, he was robbed.


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    #19
    Quaderno
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭Quaderno


    Williams667 wrote: »
    Slight difference, there is a right of way around Fenit island with hundreds of years. No right to invade people's privacy and their security.

    Oh. I didn't think the railway line was on private land. I mean of course it is, but not on land owned by anyone complaining about the proposed cycle way (other the fenced-in land btw). As much as I don't like the fencing on Fenit Island I don't understand people being averse to building the path at the same time. Combining the two very similar "problems" in one protest seems to be a great idea, it would draw an even larger crowd and I honestly can't see how anyone in favour of a right of way to Fenit Castle would be against a public cycle way from Tralee to Fenit. And the risk to "people's privacy and security" is about the same as for the man with the fence I'd say. There might be a little risk, but the public interest should prevail since it is public ground. What would people say if there was still a working railway line? Or a public road?


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    #20
    Williams667
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Williams667


    Quaderno wrote: »
    Williams667 wrote: »
    Slight difference, there is a right of way around Fenit island with hundreds of years. No right to invade people's privacy and their security.

    Oh. I didn't think the railway line was on private land. I mean of course it is, but not on land owned by anyone complaining about the proposed cycle way (other the fenced-in land btw). As much as I don't like the fencing on Fenit Island I don't understand people being averse to building the path at the same time. Combining the two very similar "problems" in one protest seems to be a great idea, it would draw an even larger crowd and I honestly can't see how anyone in favour of a right of way to Fenit Castle would be against a public cycle way from Tralee to Fenit. And the risk to "people's privacy and security" is about the same as for the man with the fence I'd say. There might be a little risk, but the public interest should prevail since it is public ground. What would people say if there was still a working railway line? Or a public road?
    You obviously don't live on the line the same as that pr1ck Famous does not live in Fenit, Tralee or even Kerry.


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    #21
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Is it a fear of liability?
    Compo culture is an issue for landowners

    Walker trips on land, ca-ching. Claims from landowner?


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    #22
    Quaderno
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭Quaderno


    Williams667 wrote: »
    You obviously don't live on the line the same as that pr1ck Famous does not live in Fenit, Tralee or even Kerry.

    No, I don't. But I love the place and I thought it would be a great idea to have the cycle way built the minute I first heard of it. I visited one of the public meetings and didn't see any problems. The council basically owns the land (actually CIE does, but they were clearly in favour of the project, so no problem on the legal side). Then I heard of people who had used part of the track as their back garden or driveway and now see it as their private property, which it clearly is not. I can fully understand that some individuals are opposed to a change of that comfortable situation (i.e. the free use of public land for private purposes), but I don't understand how that is different from the situation on Fenit Island. You want the fence to come down (on private land) but don't want to allow the public to use public land. I don't know what bullyboy tactics on the side of the council you mean, but I guess they would even be on the safe side if they simply bulldozed the whole track and didn't even ask for your cooperation. You don't own that land so you don't decide what to do with it. Simple.


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    #23
    Quaderno
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭Quaderno


    Williams667 wrote: »
    You obviously don't live on the line the same as that pr1ck Famous does not live in Fenit, Tralee or even Kerry.

    Oh, and I might add that I am not even Irish if that helps your argument in any way.


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    #24
    Williams667
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Williams667


    Quaderno wrote: »
    Williams667 wrote: »
    You obviously don't live on the line the same as that pr1ck Famous does not live in Fenit, Tralee or even Kerry.

    No, I don't. But I love the place and I thought it would be a great idea to have the cycle way built the minute I first heard of it. I visited one of the public meetings and didn't see any problems. The council basically owns the land (actually CIE does, but they were clearly in favour of the project, so no problem on the legal side). Then I heard of people who had used part of the track as their back garden or driveway and now see it as their private property, which it clearly is not. I can fully understand that some individuals are opposed to a change of that comfortable situation (i.e. the free use of public land for private purposes), but I don't understand how that is different from the situation on Fenit Island. You want the fence to come down (on private land) but don't want to allow the public to use public land. I don't know what bullyboy tactics on the side of the council you mean, but I guess they would even be on the safe side if they simply bulldozed the whole track and didn't even ask for your cooperation. You don't own that land so you don't decide what to do with it. Simple.
    As you said you are not from the area. If you were you would know that not all the fencing is on private land and that the railway line is NOT public land. An that is what the council did try to do, bulldoze it trough without people even known about it.


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    #25
    Quaderno
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭Quaderno


    Anyway, maybe it's best to do one thing at a time. I will try to be there for the protest on the 24th, because that fence should not be there and the way to the castle must not be blocked. But I hope the other thing won't go away as well and once free passage to the castle is achieved the cycleway hopefully will be back on the agenda. But all that stuff really shouldn't get any more personal than it already is I]EDIT: part of this sentence was removed because I found that it might be in breach of boards.ie rules. Nothing else in this post has changed. Sorry for that.[/I
    So I join you in hoping for a good turnout and nice weather. See you on Fenit Island...


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    #26
    sheesh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    mikemac wrote: »
    Is it a fear of liability?
    Compo culture is an issue for landowners

    Walker trips on land, ca-ching. Claims from landowner?

    I think that is a lot of it. I was walking over to a place I go fishing on the island a few years ago. the farmer stopped and said that i cannot go over there as the island is private property, I pointed out to him that i was going to be walking to the point on the intertidal zone and this was held in commonage (which it is) he looked a bit sheepish and said that there had been claims so I can sort of understand their point of view.

    What i do not understand is the aggressive manner with which they are acting, A guy i know was out there fishing and there was a security guard out there photographing him he was fishing a completely legal part of the coast and had got there in a completely legal manner.

    What needs to be ascertained is this:
    1. does the land go out as far as the high water mark or does it go out as far as the retaining wall that goes all around the land?
    2. Who created the sea defence walls dotted around the island?
    3. Where is the high water mark?

    If the sea defence walls were built by the state and not the landowner does it consitute the boundary?


    btw I'm not a solicitor so while I'm fairly sure about some of this stuff the rest could be a bit rubbish.


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    #27
    carchaeologist
    Registered Users Posts: 11,318 ✭✭✭✭carchaeologist


    Williams667 wrote: »
    that pr1ck Famous

    Who is this? A nickname for the landowner?


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    #28
    manoverboards
    Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭manoverboards


    Hey Williams/FenitDude,

    What on gods earth are you on about, the Railway is 100% owned by the state (CIE/IR) and they have given approval for its use as a public walkway.

    Williams667 wrote: »
    As you said you are not from the area. If you were you would know that not all the fencing is on private land and that the railway line is NOT public land.

    Stop spouting that rubbish please, it really takes away from your sensible points.


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    #29
    manoverboards
    Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭manoverboards


    Pity to see that some Fenit folk are still suffering a bad dose of xenophobia.

    Just because the OP does not live right beside said railway line does not mean they shouldn't have an opinion on it, it is a public amenity in their vicinity. By the same standard I could sAy that you do not understand the situation nor should your opinion be taken unless you live on Fenit island !

    I would love to be able to walk along the old railway as I have done in the past, (just like you walked Fenit Island), and not even to Fenit the walkway would serve the people of Tralee, the Spa, Churchhill, Cloherbrien etc. but cannot do so because of a few bullies in Fenit.

    :mad:
    Williams667 wrote: »
    You obviously don't live on the line the same as that pr1ck Famous does not live in Fenit, Tralee or even Kerry.


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    #30
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,982 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    According to this, KCC doesn't seem to think that there's anything wrong with the fencing.:confused:
    24 Jul 2011
    200 show up for Fenit Island protest

    Around 200 people are participating in a protest walk on Fenit Island this afternoon. The walkers are objecting to the erection of fences by a number of landowners on the island. They say the fences are blocking access to pathways around the island. Kerry County Council says no planning laws have been breached by the erection of the fences. Gardai say the walk, which began at 1pm, has been peaceful so far.

    http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/


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    #31
    xyz1
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭xyz1


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    According to this, KCC doesn't seem to think that there's anything wrong with the fencing.:confused:



    http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/

    Not surprised by that at all. As a poster earlier on pointed out, this guy is a solicitor, and actually has a very impressive record in the courts, I'm sure he knows the law a lot better than the Fenit locals. They are entitled to protest of course and maybe it will work out for them, but I just can't see a solicitor with his background not knowing exactly what he is and isn't entitled to do with his land legally. At the end of the day the laws of this country must be observed and to see one poster saying the fence will come down "one way or another" is pretty pathetic. Best of luck with your protests.


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