ActionAid Ireland - door to door dishonesty

David Matthew · 27-05-2011 3:14pm #1

Hi,

A few days ago a couple of girls called to my door on behalf of ActionAid Ireland, a decent charity from what I can tell. The girls calling door to door however were a different story.

In the first place, two of them calling together, effectively backing each other up, felt a little bit intimidating. Does anyone know if this kind of thing is permitted? Or is that a silly question?

However, be that as it may, my gripe wasn't with the fact that two of them called to my door. That was only an afterthought. What annoyed me was how pushy, underhand and downright deceptive one of the girls was who insisted I fill out the form she handed me. When I looked down through it, I saw that my bank details were required; account number and sort code. When I nicely explained (and I was meek/apologetic in my tone, to a fault) that I don't give out bank details at my doorstep, as it makes me uncomfortable, the pushy girl (they seemed to have perfected the good cop/bad cop dynamic) actually said this:

'No no, you wouldn't be giving us your bank details...! That would be only if you gave us that long number across your laser card...!'

When I insisted that, no, I wasn't going to give her my bank details, she audibly sighed (!!!), and reluctantly took the form back from me. At this, they both left, doing their best to look as dejected and hard done by as possible.

Has anyone experienced anything similar with ActionAid's, or other charities', salespeople? Would it be in the best interests of ActionAid if I were to inform them of this sort of carry on directly?

Thanks,

David.

krissovo · 27-05-2011 3:28pm

PAWS - Will never ever get a cent off me, one them called me a "tight fecker" when I asked was she on commission. I initially put it down to a one off but there has now been 3 similar occasions with their collectors.

Had similar experiences with other charities but mostly anyone who uses "professional" collectors I find are most pushy and strike them off my giving list.

I give fairly generously to two charities now, the only Irish one is Gorta.

Esoteric_ · 27-05-2011 3:30pm

Well, the action aid girl was right. They can't personally do anything with your account number and sort code. How else are they supposed to get sign ups if you won't give details? Honestly it doesn't sound as though she really did anything wrong. And why do you use the word "dishonesty" in your title? There was NO dishonesty in what you posted.

Charity fundraisers that are pushy P me off as much as the next person, but it doesn't sound as though she did anything wrong. Also, canvassing in groups of 2 is common enough, my boyfriend used to do it when he worked in Concern before.

The Lovely Muffin · 27-05-2011 3:38pm

Last year I had someone call to the door and ask me questions and then handed me a form to fill in, I said I wasn't filling in the form as it required my bank details, so he said to me "if you give me your bank details I'll give you mine":eek:

Needless to say, he or the charity he worked for got nothing off me and never will.

TheIrishGrover · 27-05-2011 3:40pm

LyndaMcL wrote: »

......... They can't personally do anything with your account number and sort code. ........

Along with your name and address on the top of the sheet? How about you post all that info here and give it a go. Just ask Jeremy Clarkson

MissFlitworth · 27-05-2011 4:07pm

David Matthew wrote: »

Hi,

When I nicely explained (and I was meek/apologetic in my tone, to a fault) that I don't give out bank details at my doorstep, as it makes me uncomfortable, the pushy girl (they seemed to have perfected the good cop/bad cop dynamic) actually said this:

'No no, you wouldn't be giving us your bank details...! That would be only if you gave us that long number across your laser card...!'

LyndaMcL wrote: »

And why do you use the word "dishonesty" in your title? There was NO dishonesty in what you posted.

The bit in bold is dishonest, probably accidentally so but it is still not true.

I'd agree with TheIrishGrover as well, I wouldn't give out my bank details to some randomer at the door with a clipboard. This is the Jeremy Clarkson story if you haven't already seen it

smelltheglove · 27-05-2011 4:48pm

I hate when these call to the door. I am all for giving and set up direct debits for charities before but in all honesty, as a family, we have had a tugh couple of years. When they call to my door I am completely honest with them in saying I cannot afford it, with an until recently an unemployed other half the last thing I could afford was to give away money but they would push me to a stage that I would almost have to be rude. There have been one or two nice ones where I have wished them the best on their travels etc but the majority are hard sellers.

David Matthew · 27-05-2011 5:21pm

LyndaMcL wrote: »

Well, the action aid girl was right. They can't personally do anything with your account number and sort code... There was NO dishonesty in what you posted.

I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong here. Have you ever signed up somebody for a direct debit on behalf of a company? Name, address, account number and sort code - done.

David Matthew · 27-05-2011 5:27pm

Purple_Bobbin wrote: »

Last year I had someone call to the door and ask me questions and then handed me a form to fill in, I said I wasn't filling in the form as it required my bank details, so he said to me "if you give me your bank details I'll give you mine":eek:

I wonder are these the same company that hard sell for the likes of Airtricity?!

krissovo wrote:

Will never ever get a cent off me, one them called me a "tight fecker" when I asked was she on commission.

Wow, now that's taking things a whole leap further! :eek:

davo10 · 27-05-2011 5:38pm

David Matthew wrote: »

Hi,

A few days ago a couple of girls called to my door on behalf of ActionAid Ireland... two of them calling together... felt a little bit intimidating.

Thanks,

David.

David, I think you should ask your friends down the pub tonight for their advice on how to deal with two little girls who call to your door collecting for charity and intimidating you, the little bullyettes. Perhaps next time you should ring the Gardai and ask for armed response.

For God's sake how is this a consumer issue, you are not buying something off the little girls, grow a pair will ya...

ladder · 27-05-2011 5:41pm

Hi David you have every right to be wary, i work in the door to door business myself and people can take advantage, normally when it comes to charity stuff they would have an ID Badge that you can call a number to confirm they are who they say they are, the would also normally have plenty of branding of the company they represent, it is also not uncommon for 2 people to approach a door as it would be a training day,and it wouldnt be uncommon for 2 girls to work together for safty purposes, but to be fair they were probably being honest about the bank details, that they would not use them, as all the people who work for charities are vetted.
they were most likely trying to sell so much as they on commission or high targets.

David Matthew · 27-05-2011 6:00pm

davo10 wrote: »

David, I think you should ask your friends down the pub tonight for their advice on how to deal with two little girls who call to your door collecting for charity and intimidating you, the little bullyettes. Perhaps next time you should ring the Gardai and ask for armed response.

For God's sake how is this a consumer issue, you are not buying something off the little girls, grow a pair will ya...

Maybe the consumer issues wasn't the most appropriate forum. But for God's sake, telling me to grow a pair - people who tell others to grow a pair over an internet forum are usually the ones in want of some cojones. Your slighting attitude in calling them 'two little girls' - what's that about? I think your own 'issues' might be on display here.

David Matthew · 27-05-2011 6:04pm

ladder wrote: »

Hi David you have every right to be wary, i work in the door to door business myself and people can take advantage... but to be fair they were probably being honest about the bank details, that they would not use them, as all the people who work for charities are vetted.
they were most likely trying to sell so much as they on commission or high targets.

I didn't think that I would be signed up against my will, I just took issue with (what I thought) was deliberate dishonesty. I do have time for door to door charity salespeople - it's just a pity that taking on board the issues they raise and thinking about it yourself just isn't enough for them. But obviously I appreciate they're under pressure to sign people up.

ladder wrote:

it is also not uncommon for 2 people to approach a door as it would be a training day,and it wouldnt be uncommon for 2 girls to work together for safty purposes

Thanks for that, makes sense.

ladder · 27-05-2011 6:05pm

MissFlitworth wrote: »

The bit in bold is dishonest, probably accidentally so but it is still not true.

I'd agree with TheIrishGrover as well, I wouldn't give out my bank details to some randomer at the door with a clipboard. This is the Jeremy Clarkson story if you haven't already seen it

the clarkson story is funny though, but i do stand by what i said if you can check the validity of a persons ID on the door then its safe.

davo10 · 27-05-2011 6:07pm

Sorry David, allow me to correct myself, the people you found a "little bit intimidating" were "a couple of girls", my mistake, apologies.

ladder · 27-05-2011 6:11pm

MissFlitworth wrote: »

The bit in bold is dishonest, probably accidentally so but it is still not true.

I'd agree with TheIrishGrover as well, I wouldn't give out my bank details to some randomer at the door with a clipboard. This is the Jeremy Clarkson story if you haven't already seen it

David Matthew wrote: »

I didn't think that I would be signed up against my will, I just took issue with (what I thought) was deliberate dishonesty. I do have time for door to door charity salespeople - it's just a pity that taking on board the issues they raise and thinking about it yourself just isn't enough for them. But obviously I appreciate they're under pressure to sign people up.

my apologies David i do see where there was dishonesty in what they said at the door.
they knew exactly what they were asking for, as i have already said i come from the direct sales world, i train people to do door to door sales and almost always dealing with direct debit sign ups.

David Matthew · 27-05-2011 6:23pm

davo10 wrote:

Sorry David, allow me to correct myself, the people you found a "little bit intimidating" were "a couple of girls", my mistake, apologies.

Look, I'm sure you realise there is more than one kind of intimidation (e.g. see this excerpt from Ayn Rand). Moral or psychological intimidation was what I had in mind; I didn't feel in any way physically threatened. And I certainly didn't forsee the need to explain this.

davo10 · 27-05-2011 6:59pm

David Matthew wrote: »

Look, I'm sure you realise there is more than one kind of intimidation (e.g. see this excerpt from Ayn Rand). ... And I certainly didn't foresee the need to explain this

To quote Ayn Rand:

"The essential characteristic of the Argument from Intimidation is its appeal to moral self doubt and its reliance on the fear, guilt or ignorance of its vicim. It is used in the form of an ultimatim demanding that the victim renounce a given idea without discussion, under threat of being considered morally unworthy"

"The tone is usually one of scornful or belligerent credulity etc"

David, when you say "Look" you are demanding that I accept your opinion and that it is above debate, and when you say "And I certainly didn't foresee the need to explain this" is that scorn or belligerent credulity? are you trying to intimidate me?.

ejmaztec · 27-05-2011 9:43pm

Not much charity in this thread.:rolleyes:

David Matthew · 27-05-2011 10:23pm

davo10 wrote:

David, when you say "Look" you are demanding that I accept your opinion and that it is above debate

Sorry to disappoint, but I wasn't demanding any such thing, only trying to explain myself.

davo10 wrote:

...and when you say "And I certainly didn't foresee the need to explain this" is that scorn or belligerent credulity? are you trying to intimidate me?

I'm calling the armed response.

Look (and I don't mean this to be above debate), can we stop this sniping? That's just a request, not a demand.

the groutch · 27-05-2011 10:55pm

my issue with door to door charity "sales" is that if they have to be paid a commission, that's an extra person who gets a cut of your donation before it gets put to use helping those the charity is intended for.
same applies with the Concern guys/gals on the streets

foggy_lad · 28-05-2011 3:35pm

the groutch wrote: »

my issue with door to door charity "sales" is that if they have to be paid a commission, that's an extra person who gets a cut of your donation before it gets put to use helping those the charity is intended for.
same applies with the Concern guys/gals on the streets

Stick your €50 in an envelope and pop it into the box at the back of most churches marked SVdeP or find out where your local SVdeP/home care team/lions club etc holds meetings and send them a cheque! every cent goes to people who need it as all the organisors etc are volunteers and only local people in need benefit from your donation.

ladder · 28-05-2011 3:50pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Stick your €50 in an envelope and pop it into the box at the back of most churches marked SVdeP or find out where your local SVdeP/home care team/lions club etc holds meetings and send them a cheque! every cent goes to people who need it as all the organisors etc are volunteers and only local people in need benefit from your donation.

The thing is would any of us really give to charity if we were not asked ??
let it be by someone paid or volunteers its still for a good cause, most companies who have paid charity sales people only sign people up fo long term donations for example if it costs the charity €50, the donation from you is normally 4 times that per year like €20 per month.
Again getting away from davids original post it was not the sign up it was how it was done.

Venom · 28-05-2011 4:48pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Stick your €50 in an envelope and pop it into the box at the back of most churches marked SVdeP or find out where your local SVdeP/home care team/lions club etc holds meetings and send them a cheque! every cent goes to people who need it as all the organisors etc are volunteers and only local people in need benefit from your donation.

I don't have much time for the SVDP after it's top brass let it slip around Christmas a few years ago that the charity was paying the mortgages of 2 car family's?

As to the OP's issue I wonder if those women really worked for Action Aid Ireland or were the usual rent a scrounger hired by charities for a few weeks?

@ Ladder just because someone has a little plastic card showing they are hired/employed by a charity doesn't mean their trustworthy with anyone's bank details.

foggy_lad · 28-05-2011 4:55pm

ladder wrote: »

The thing is would any of us really give to charity if we were not asked ??
let it be by someone paid or volunteers its still for a good cause, most companies who have paid charity sales people only sign people up fo long term donations for example if it costs the charity €50, the donation from you is normally 4 times that per year like €20 per month.
Again getting away from davids original post it was not the sign up it was how it was done.

I regularly do as i suggested others do, and only local charities benefit from me having a little extra that i can spare. I also believe that charity does begin at home so have never and will never support overseas groups like concern, goal, gorta etc etc. I refuse to send money out of ireland to some group who than decides based on their own agenda who should benefit or where the money should be spent!

ladder · 28-05-2011 5:03pm

Venom wrote: »

I don't have much time for the SVDP after it's top brass let it slip around Christmas a few years ago that the charity was paying the mortgages of 2 car family's?

As to the OP's issue I wonder if those women really worked for Action Aid Ireland or were the usual rent a scrounger hired by charities for a few weeks?

@ Ladder just because someone has a little plastic card showing they are hired/employed by a charity doesn't mean their trustworthy with anyone's bank details.

i Agree, but normally you can verify identiy by calling a number on the ID card, but even at that, its really down to the person that has your details.......again like i said earlier if they work for a company that represents charities then they would be vetted.....and from what i can tell the people work for an out sourced sales company that represent action aid....
but still it was misleading and does not leave a very good impression.

ladder · 28-05-2011 5:12pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

I regularly do as i suggested others do, and only local charities benefit from me having a little extra that i can spare. I also believe that charity does begin at home so have never and will never support overseas groups like concern, goal, gorta etc etc. I refuse to send money out of ireland to some group who than decides based on their own agenda who should benefit or where the money should be spent!

i do agree with you, i belive it begins at home, i support as much as i can, when i can, and mostly to irish charties.

parsi · 28-05-2011 6:13pm

ladder wrote: »

i Agree, but normally you can verify identiy by calling a number on the ID card, but even at that, its really down to the person that has your details.......again like i said earlier if they work for a company that represents charities then they would be vetted.....and from what i can tell the people work for an out sourced sales company that represent action aid....
but still it was misleading and does not leave a very good impression.

It's hardly verification if you have to ring a number that _they_ provide ?

Guy:Incognito · 29-05-2011 10:56pm

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Along with your name and address on the top of the sheet? How about you post all that info here and give it a go. Just ask Jeremy Clarkson

The Jeremy Clarkson story had more than a hint of tabloidism about it. In the UK registered charities can set up direct debit without a signature.

Thats it. He posted the details and someone had a laugh by registereing him for a direct debit to a charity. Thats all they can do, and thats in the UK. I dont think that loophole is here.

At most your could get "done" for one months comtribution to a charity before you notice , so what about a tenner? and I'm sure if you really needed the tenner back the charity isnt going to refuse.

Oryx · 30-05-2011 9:57am

The issue here is that the girls were dishonest. They did lie when they said that an account number and sort code are not bank details. They are the only bank details I've ever needed then! I would have a huge problem with giving those details to anyone, particularly a stranger on my doorstep. People here are saying they can't do anything with them. Then why ask for them in the first place? If they are unscrupulous enough to lie to you, then how could you trust them not to use your details to sign you up fraudulently?

As for saying you can get a refund 'if you really need the tenner'. I'd really rather avoid having it stolen in the first place.

sendit · 30-05-2011 12:07pm

Oryx wrote: »

The issue here is that the girls were dishonest. They did lie when they said that an account number and sort code are not bank details. They are the only bank details I've ever needed then! I would have a huge problem with giving those details to anyone, particularly a stranger on my doorstep. People here are saying they can't do anything with them. Then why ask for them in the first place? If they are unscrupulous enough to lie to you, then how could you trust them not to use your details to sign you up fraudulently?

As for saying you can get a refund 'if you really need the tenner'. I'd really rather avoid having it stolen in the first place.

Because thats what they need to sign you up

Unless they have your pin number or look like you theres not a whole pile they can do with them

ActionAid Ireland - door to door dishonesty

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