Court Summons

Shazforgrub · 10-05-2011 9:18am #1

I'm up in court tomorrow for failing to present my insurance certificate at a garda station within 10 days of having being stopped. I was fully covered at the time and had an in-date disc up, the reason I was asked to go to the station was I didn't have my licence on me. I went to the station the next day and explained I had lost my licence, and had to apply for a new one. The garda I spoke to made a note of it and said to come back once I had it. I returned with the licence a few days after it came and thought everything was done and dusted. Then I received a court summons 2 months later for failing to present my insurance certificate at the station. I didn't realize I had to show my certificate at the station, if they had just asked me when I was down with them I could have gotten it no problem!! Whats likely to hapen in court tomorrow, will I be fined? I think it would be seriously unfair if I was, I didn't try and deceive anyone, I was fully insured at the time, and I did go down to the station within the 10 day period.

source · 10-05-2011 11:43am

Gardai will generally ask a motorist to produce both documents (DL and Ins Cert) when stopped, However there are occassions when a Garda will see one document at the side of the road and just ask for the other, this is why you wouldn't be asked for both in the station.

The demand has been made at the side of the road, the Garda at the desk is just the Garda you're producing the documents to, his job is to record the information you present to him. He doesn't have the power there and then to demand you produce the other document as he has not seen you driving.

The disc doesn't prove anything, just that there is an insurance company with an interest in the car between 2 set dates. The Certificate provides information on who is allowed to drive and under what circumstances.

If you go looking for the Garda who stopped you, his name will be on the summons, you can produce the certificate to him. This may be enough to satisfy him that you were insured to drive at the time and he may strike the summons out in court.

The other option is to go to court and produce the summons to him there, either way the Garda only wants to see that you have insurance for the date you were driving.

cml387 · 10-05-2011 11:50am

This is not the first time I've seen people in this situation (i.e. being summonsed for failure to show a document they believed they were not asked to produce when originally stopped).

In the event of being stopped and not having your llcense with (and it can happen easily enough) it might be a wise move to show license and insurance at the Garda station within the required timeframe.

I notice the OP produced his license eventually but does not say how soon after he was originally stoppped.If some time had elapsed,this might not have helped his case.

everyday taxi · 10-05-2011 11:50am

Shazforgrub wrote: »

I'm up in court tomorrow for failing to present my insurance certificate at a garda station within 10 days of having being stopped. I was fully covered at the time and had an in-date disc up, the reason I was asked to go to the station was I didn't have my licence on me. I went to the station the next day and explained I had lost my licence, and had to apply for a new one. The garda I spoke to made a note of it and said to come back once I had it. I returned with the licence a few days after it came and thought everything was done and dusted. Then I received a court summons 2 months later for failing to present my insurance certificate at the station. I didn't realize I had to show my certificate at the station, if they had just asked me when I was down with them I could have gotten it no problem!! Whats likely to hapen in court tomorrow, will I be fined? I think it would be seriously unfair if I was, I didn't try and deceive anyone, I was fully insured at the time, and I did go down to the station within the 10 day period.

Go to court, dressed neatly. Simply tell the judge you were not asked to produce the insurance. Explain to him you had it at the time (bring proof of this to court), that it would make no sense for you to not produce it when you had it all along, but simply the garda made a mistake in thinking he may have asked you to produce. You will not be fined for this. (p.s, if i was fined for that, i would absolutely appeal it btw, but i cannot see it happening). best o luck.

CrackisWhack · 10-05-2011 11:53am

Shazforgrub wrote: »

I'm up in court tomorrow for failing to present my insurance certificate at a garda station within 10 days of having being stopped. I was fully covered at the time and had an in-date disc up, the reason I was asked to go to the station was I didn't have my licence on me. I went to the station the next day and explained I had lost my licence, and had to apply for a new one. The garda I spoke to made a note of it and said to come back once I had it. I returned with the licence a few days after it came and thought everything was done and dusted. Then I received a court summons 2 months later for failing to present my insurance certificate at the station. I didn't realize I had to show my certificate at the station, if they had just asked me when I was down with them I could have gotten it no problem!! Whats likely to hapen in court tomorrow, will I be fined? I think it would be seriously unfair if I was, I didn't try and deceive anyone, I was fully insured at the time, and I did go down to the station within the 10 day period.

Exact same thing happened to me last year, i brought my documents to court, judge said to garda has he provided documentation? garda said yes and it was struck out, i wouldnt worry about it

January · 10-05-2011 12:06pm

everyday taxi wrote: »

Go to court, dressed neatly. Simply tell the judge you were not asked to produce the insurance. Explain to him you had it at the time (bring proof of this to court), that it would make no sense for you to not produce it when you had it all along, but simply the garda made a mistake in thinking he may have asked you to produce. You will not be fined for this. (p.s, if i was fined for that, i would absolutely appeal it btw, but i cannot see it happening). best o luck.

Jesus this is not the right thing to do, bring your certificate to court and when called, show it to the judge, case will be struck out. Don't open your mouth and try to be smart about not being asked to produce it.

Kosseegan · 10-05-2011 2:16pm

Show the documents to the guard in advance, preferably at the station. Most likely he will apply for a strike out and you won't have to say anything at all in court. Some judges get annoyed at people handing up documents in Court when the case is called. The guard will be asked to check them, which has the effect of slowing everything down.

Shazforgrub · 11-05-2011 5:55pm

I had spoken to the garda about getting it struck out, but he said he couldn't do this anymore (a blatant lie, as i found out today!)

So I went along to court today anyway, an interesting experience, unbelievable how slow things proceed! I stood up before the judge when called, garda gave his side, I explained my side, summons was struck out, no fine or anything, just a wasted days holidays!!

Lavattack · 11-05-2011 6:05pm

OP what happened you happened me almost exactly. I had lost my liscence but brought my insurance cert into the station and told the Garda on duty that I had lost it. He said he would make a note of it and to drop it in when I got a new one. I never did tho as I forgot until reading your post lol. That was at least 5/6 months ago so I guess they just left it go. Don't panic I would think

Lavattack · 11-05-2011 6:07pm

Nice1 OP.

MagicSean · 11-05-2011 6:17pm

Shazforgrub wrote: »

I had spoken to the garda about getting it struck out, but he said he couldn't do this anymore (a blatant lie, as i found out today!)

So I went along to court today anyway, an interesting experience, unbelievable how slow things proceed! I stood up before the judge when called, garda gave his side, I explained my side, summons was struck out, no fine or anything, just a wasted days holidays!!

May not have been a lie. Could be a direction from the inspector or a previous order from the judge. There can be strange rules in some district courts.

coylemj · 11-05-2011 6:49pm

I'm not aware that a Garda can have a summons struck out or withdrawn before it comes up in court, otherwise the system would be wide open to abuse.

Once the summons has been issued by the District Court it's out of the Garda's hands, you can show him/her your documents in the station or in the court before the case is called and when it is called he can ask the judge to strike out the charges, although if you are in court because you forgot to produce, you could still be convicted of failing to produce (small fine) because it's a separate charge from not actually having a licence or insurance.

However if you show up and the licence and insurance are in order i.e. you were covered on the day the Garda stopped you, you would normally expect to have all charges struck out.

Our man in Havana · 11-05-2011 8:54pm

They can make sure it does not go on the list to begin with. If the original summons is not back with the DC clerk 4 days before the court it will not be on the list. So if the person saw and produced to him beforehand the matter could be disposed of by not returning the summons.

coylemj · 12-05-2011 1:42am

Our man in Havana wrote: »

They can make sure it does not go on the list to begin with. If the original summons is not back with the DC clerk 4 days before the court it will not be on the list. So if the person saw and produced to him beforehand the matter could be disposed of by not returning the summons.

But the prosecuting Garda is not the one who serves the summons (by the DC Rules) so how can you talk about him 'not returning the summons'?

Hooch · 12-05-2011 1:36pm

Our man in Havana wrote: »

They can make sure it does not go on the list to begin with. If the original summons is not back with the DC clerk 4 days before the court it will not be on the list. So if the person saw and produced to him beforehand the matter could be disposed of by not returning the summons.

This is not good practice, nor is it usually done within AGS. Once the summons is served it but take its natural course in law and have a Judge strike it out.

coylemj wrote: »

But the prosecuting Garda is not the one who serves the summons (by the DC Rules) so how can you talk about him 'not returning the summons'?

Summons are returned to our local SGT office or clerical officer who in turn gets the summons lodged in court. At this point a summons "could" be intercepted and removed before it goes on the list, however this is not practice nor advisable.

The only real time when this would be done would be a wrongly issued FCPN (ie wrong reg etc being flagged by the recipient) The Inspector or Supt can direct that the summons is not served. If it slips through and is served it can be removed before lodging once the Supt is notified and the recipient is notified they are not required.

Our man in Havana · 12-05-2011 3:07pm

Whilst it was not best practice it did happen certainly in my time.

Normally if someone paid the fine into the office a week before the court I would withdraw the summons. The easiest way to withdraw the summons was not to return it to the DC. I was working in a council dealing with parking matters and I did serve all my own summonses myself by RP. No one ever told me this was a bad practice. We are talking 15 years ago now.

Hooch · 15-05-2011 8:58pm

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Whilst it was not best practice it did happen certainly in my time.

Normally if someone paid the fine into the office a week before the court I would withdraw the summons. The easiest way to withdraw the summons was not to return it to the DC. I was working in a council dealing with parking matters and I did serve all my own summonses myself by RP. No one ever told me this was a bad practice. We are talking 15 years ago now.

As did we do it in years gone by......accountability has taken that away now;)

jakdelad · 17-05-2011 6:32pm

coylemj wrote: »

I'm not aware that a Garda can have a summons struck out or withdrawn before it comes up in court, otherwise the system would be wide open to abuse.

Once the summons has been issued by the District Court it's out of the Garda's hands, you can show him/her your documents in the station or in the court before the case is called and when it is called he can ask the judge to strike out the charges, although if you are in court because you forgot to produce, you could still be convicted of failing to produce (small fine) because it's a separate charge from not actually having a licence or insurance.

However if you show up and the licence and insurance are in order i.e. you were covered on the day the Garda stopped you, you would normally expect to have all charges struck out.

not been to many courts then???
its a common practice

Court Summons

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