The straw that broke the camel's back

b318isp · 31-03-2011 10:44am #1

I'm just wondering if those here who are atheists had a single moment when they became so? If I assume that many people were brought up as RC in this country, was it a gradual change or was it a particular point in time? At what stage did you consider yourself (formally) atheist?

For me, there had been growing contradictions in my head. However, I remember distinctly a moment where I said to myself that religion is not right. I was in Madrid for a few days where I had noticed a lot of beggars and buskers. I had gone into the Almudena cathedral to have a look around:

Silver angel
Mary

I was, quite frankly, appalled at the amount of gold and silver on display. It seemed a brash, vulgar two-fingered-salute to the world outside. I couldn't reconcile the apparent hypocrisy and walked out in disgust. I would consider that the point where my past caught up with me.

Zombrex · 31-03-2011 10:57am

Gradual change. I was a deist for a while before interest in popular science lead me to atheism (by for a while it was probably only about 6 months in my young teens)

RedXIV · 31-03-2011 11:03am

I honestly don't think I ever really "BELIEVED"

My mother still tells the story about how my teacher called her in before my first communion to tell her that when the priest came to the class to ensure my teacher had been correctly imparting the religious teachings, how I had gone on to explain the big bang theory and how we all came from monkeys. And that would have been at 6. Guess I always thought it was a bit make-believe?

Larsist · 31-03-2011 11:08am

I don't think I was ever a believer but I had never given it much thought or tried to define my beliefs. The first time I realised I was an atheist was when I was called up for jury duty and when getting sworn in I was asked if I would swear on the bible or affirm. I choose to affirm. I have been an atheist ever since and take a great deal of interest in it now.

Penn · 31-03-2011 11:09am

Wasn't one thing. I can't actually say I ever felt any real connect with God or religion. Only ever used to go to Mass because I was made to, and even then I never paid attention. The last few times I went to Mass weekly, me and my cousins would be standing in the back of the church playing 'Count the Combovers'.

nozzferrahhtoo · 31-03-2011 11:16am

I too never believed. When our teacher in primary school read from the bible in school each day I just thought of it as "story time". I was somewhere in the 11 to 13 age before it hit me that people actually thought the fairy tales true. I was gob smacked. I had gone 13ish years of my life without ever coping on to the fact people took it all seriously.

How they think one work of fiction is true and all the rest false is, to this day, still a mystery to me.

Shenshen · 31-03-2011 11:41am

While I spent most of my childhood and adolescence trying to believe, I never managed more than "well, there may be somebody out there, and wouldn't it be nice if he was like the god described in the bible?", which I based on the bits and pieces I had been told about the god of the bible by parents, teachers, priests and nuns.

That changed quite dramatically when I was challenged by another Christian to actually read the bible.
I was utterly disgusted and absolutely horrified by what this god really is like.
These days, I still think that Jesus had some good ideas, but the god of the bible remains absolutely abhorrent to me. and I've drifted from the "there might be somebody out there" to "there might be, but I don't think it's very likely".

krudler · 31-03-2011 12:05pm

was always a bit iffy about it, but, and I've talked about this on here before, watching a mega religious relative die a horrible, painful, drawn out death was what made me think "this god, if he does exist, is a bit fcuked up" this is a woman who went to mass every day, sometimes twice a day, lived for the church, constantly saying prayers and buying mass cards and candles for people, invited the priests around for dinner (none of whom aside from the one who said her funeral mass actually came to the funeral) all the time and basically was of the bible=every word true variety. The utter hypocrisy and ridiculous statements that came out of the priests mouth at the funeral and of people in general was sickening, heres a great one that stayed with me "they tried to keep her alive with medicine but god wanted her too much" WTF?!?!?! so god wanted her but couldnt have let her die a peaceful death in her sleep, no, he had to make her suffer for a few years, first with cancer, then a stroke, then eventually dying in a hospice in the middle of the night alone. thats someone reward for devoting their lives to a supposed loving god?
I havent gone to mass since, funerals aside. and I've made it clear to my parents that if anything ever happened me then no mass service of any kind is to be held for me.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 31-03-2011 12:59pm

About 13 began doubting. Eureka moment was a few years later in leaving cert physics realising how big the universe was. Seemed to totally piss all over the bible to me.

GLaDOS · 31-03-2011 1:09pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

About 13 began doubting. Eureka moment was a few years later in leaving cert physics realising how big the universe was. Seemed to totally piss all over the bible to me.

I didn't have a specific moment, and my the time I started physics I doubted anyway, but I definitely think it had an influence. Understanding the natural world kinda put the supernatural one to bed

eblistic · 31-03-2011 1:43pm

b318isp wrote: »

At what stage did you consider yourself (formally) atheist?

What do the formalities entail?

Though I can't remember ever believing in the RC god of my early indoctrination, I never considered myself an atheist or a theist until the last decade or so. Theism just seemed a vague term describing a huge range of unprovable hypotheses on matters such as how the universe came to be and why things happen the way they do. Since then, the penny has dropped that attempts to impose societal rules based on dubious revealed texts and folklore can have really disastrous consequences for humanity. For that reason I got off the fence.

the_syco · 31-03-2011 2:02pm

Never really believed. Got hit by a car at 12, was in a coma for 3 days. Medical science saved me. No-one could really answer the questions I had at the time, aside from the "you gotta have faith" type answers.

I goto funeral and anniversary masses, as well as weddings, and other church things, out of respect for those concerned.

The gods made heavy metal and they saw that is was good. They said to play it louder than Hell... We promised that we would

:cool:

NecroSteve · 31-03-2011 2:59pm

I cleaned all remnants of religious muck out of my mind by the time I was 11. Still did my confirmation the year after, but only for the money, and I made sure everyone knew that! :cool:

b318isp · 31-03-2011 3:14pm

eblistic wrote: »

What do the formalities entail?

Whatever point you classified yourself as atheistic.

oldrnwisr · 31-03-2011 4:08pm

I don't think I ever really believed in catholicism. I baulked at the idea of transubstantiation almost as soon as it was explained to me. The stories of the bible were really just that. Like a lot of people here, though I don't think it was a single big break, more like death by a thousand cuts. I remember one religion class in secondary school arguing with the teacher when she said that in the bible there were holy mysteries which were questions that could never be answered such as the resurrection. The whole idea of not seeking answers was just anathema to a budding scientist. The tipping point such as it was, was when I read The Red Queen by Matt Ridley, my first introduction to evolution. Soon after I read Origin and The Selfish Gene and so on and from there on it kinda cemented my atheism.

swampgas · 02-04-2011 10:47pm

I was indoctrinated quite heavily - both parents were devout, and had relatively sophisticated answers for many of my early questions. I grew up believing that God was real, and more significantly, that he was aware of every thought that passed through my head. This led to a kind of mental paralysis through self-censorship - I would not allow myself to think certain thoughts.

My best friend became an atheist in his early teens, and I discussed religion at length with him. I was also heavily into science, and could see some logical holes. However deep down I still knew God was there watching me.

Eventually I did a deal with God - I would pretend that he didn't exist for a week and see how I got on. That was revelatory - suddenly everything made more sense. I felt a sense of freedom that is difficult to describe - suddenly I was free to think my own thoughts, without a supernatural Big Brother watching and judging. And I finally "knew" that God had been nothing but a particularly persistent figment of my imagination.

That was one of the best days of my life :-)

Zombrex · 02-04-2011 11:48pm

swampgas wrote: »

I was indoctrinated quite heavily - both parents were devout, and had relatively sophisticated answers for many of my early questions. I grew up believing that God was real, and more significantly, that he was aware of every thought that passed through my head. This led to a kind of mental paralysis through self-censorship - I would not allow myself to think certain thoughts.

My best friend became an atheist in his early teens, and I discussed religion at length with him. I was also heavily into science, and could see some logical holes. However deep down I still knew God was there watching me.

Eventually I did a deal with God - I would pretend that he didn't exist for a week and see how I got on. That was revelatory - suddenly everything made more sense. I felt a sense of freedom that is difficult to describe - suddenly I was free to think my own thoughts, without a supernatural Big Brother watching and judging. And I finally "knew" that God had been nothing but a particularly persistent figment of my imagination.

That was one of the best days of my life :-)

Ah, that is what Satan wanted you to think

himnextdoor · 03-04-2011 2:20am

In my early twenties I read a book called The New Inquisition by Robert Anton Wilson. As a result I became suspicious of all knowledge and when I read Mankind In Amnesia by Emmanuel Velikovsky shortly thereafter, I realised that all belief systems are castles built on sand atop a house of cards.

Basically, I started to ask myself why I thought I knew what I knew and began to check the validity of my sources. I found that I could trace the path that had led me to 'know' most of what I know back to a leap of faith. This realisation opened up a kind of intellectual wonderland to me and gifted me an excellent analytical tool; my brain.

Although, I have to say, when I realised that there was no divine plan, that there were really no checks or balances that could curtail the evil nature of those who lead us, the world became a slightly scarier place.

I wish there was a God to protect children from harm or to get women home safely, I really do but there isn't; it's my job. And yours. Tackling evil where you find it makes the world a better place; waiting for God to do something about it is a cowardly abdication of responsibility and achieves nothing.

There are billions of religious people on this planet and yet evil thrives. Coincidence or correlation? If the church can be thought of as a business then its most useful asset is 'suffering'. People who suffer turn to God. It's pretty obvious really; if we were all happy and content then there would be no need for 'hope'. It's a bit like an increase in crime justifies spending on policing. It's pure economics.

Pushtrak · 03-04-2011 3:57am

RedXIV wrote: »

I honestly don't think I ever really "BELIEVED"

My mother still tells the story about how my teacher called her in before my first communion to tell her that when the priest came to the class to ensure my teacher had been correctly imparting the religious teachings, how I had gone on to explain the big bang theory and how we all came from monkeys. And that would have been at 6. Guess I always thought it was a bit make-believe?

Woah. I'm in the same camp regarding not believing, but I didn't have a clue about the big bang, and I think it was even a few years before I had much of an understanding of evolution.

It took me a long time to get anything in the way of answers, but I never was happy with the nonsense that spewed out from the pulpit. I'd leave those masses boggled that the stuff was deemed believable by anyone.

I didn't have a term for what I was for a long time. At some point, I came across the term agnostic, and thought, that is closer to where I am. Maybe even apatheist (not giving a damn, to boot) but as I found out (more) about evolution and the big bang theory I've moved to strong atheism.

My memory isn't the best so its hard to being chronological about this stuff, pinning what age I was at whatever stage.

legspin · 03-04-2011 8:06am

Not really sure what broke the camel's back coz I been an atheist since my late teens/early twenties through reason, but I do know what put a bullet in the camel's brain.

b318isp · 03-04-2011 9:16pm

legspin wrote: »

but I do know what put a bullet in the camel's brain.

What do you mean?

legspin · 04-04-2011 9:08am

b318isp wrote: »

What do you mean?

Let's just say that an occurance in my life a few years ago cemented my lack of faith in any god. Not only that, but even if irrefutable 100% proof of any god came to light (but particularly the Abrahamic god) I would not tug the forelock or kowtow to it.

himnextdoor · 04-04-2011 1:40pm

legspin wrote: »

Not really sure what broke the camel's back coz I been an atheist since my late teens/early twenties through reason, but I do know what put a bullet in the camel's brain.

Being dragged through the eye of a needle is what 'put a bullet in the camel's brain'.:D

Knasher · 04-04-2011 3:15pm

I come from a very religious family and until the age of 18 I can honestly say I never missed a week of mass, mostly that was due to what was expected in my family than any deep feelings on the matter myself. I was an alter boy for several years, as were my siblings, and my Mom still does readings some weeks in church and my Dad does collections. I did believe in God though, it was what I thanked when something went right or more often begged when something went wrong. I never believed in the literal truth of the bible or any of that crap, or stuck my head in the sands so as to avoid scientific truths that contradicted with my personal beliefs as I didn't see a contradiction between the two, science was simply discovering how God had ordered the universe.

Losing my faith was a very slow process for me and I can't say that any one thing was the straw that broke the camels back. What first shook the foundations was the hypocrisy, my parents always told me that God was love and live their lives as such, but history constantly showed people using religion to inspire hatred towards others; as still happens today towards people with different beliefs or sexual orientations. I tried to divorce that from my beliefs, that bad people can use something good for evil purposes, however it always itched at me. On an intellectual level I knew for a very long time that it was probable that parts of the bible were simply the misconceptions of the people who wrote it, so as to explain away the parts that contradicted with the beliefs as I was thought them; so extending that to the whole bible wasn't such a reach for me. The hardest part of religion for me to accept was the concept that God cared about each and every one of us given the vastness of the universe or that it didn't really matter if you lived a good live only that you professed a belief in God. Those 4 things are probably what ended my belief.

I am no more certain that God doesn't exist now than I was that God did exist when I believed, there will always be some small doubt for me. One thing I would say though is that it was my belief or maybe more accurately what it would do to my parents given their beliefs that got me through some of the lower points in my life. For these reasons I try very hard to be respectful of other peoples beliefs in things I don't believe in myself, after all if I'm not certain what right do I have to take away something that might give them strength. I also don't hold the belief that the world would be a better place without religion, I believe that religion was the foundation for society and while I think that many of our societies can stand without it now, some societies may still need it as a crutch to build upon.

b318isp · 05-04-2011 9:50am

Thanks Knasher, a lot of what you said has parallels for me too.

MissFlitworth · 06-04-2011 11:32pm

I think the seeds of my athiesm were sewn by a convent primary school that, even though religious education, prayers, hymns (and poxy knitting) made religion, somehow, seem a bit makey uppy.

You had to learn stuff off by rote, sing about god making fish grow fins to tickle and wiggle and swim, stand at the top of the class in shame for not knowing the angelus off by heart and do a 'blessing yourself' test (honestly) & sign a piece of paper in 6th class saying you'd never have an abortion but there was never an implication that it was anything more than stories someone thought up to help us live better in combination with drudgery that we all had to sit through just because we had to. We certainly were never even remotely pushed in the direction of a bible. I kinda thought they were just for protestants

There was a god but all the other stuff never really came across as real

I remember being genuinely shocked the first time, aged 12, I met someone who really, really believed in god and thought all the wine turning into blood stuff was true. So thanks, nuns, for inadvertantly turning me into an atheist.

The Mad Hatter · 06-04-2011 11:53pm

I did have an epiphanic moment in a certain church when I was a youngish child.

The church that I was regularly taken to was full, and rather than skip the ceremony, my mum took me and my younger siblings to a nearby church in town. Masses in this church were delivered by a centenarian priest with a gravelly voice and an inability to speak at a rate higher than three words a minute. At one point, I think during the gospel, I looked up at the crucifix above the priest's head and realised that everything else in life I'd been told to question and figure out for myself, but this I was instructed to believe because older people told me to. I walked out of the church an atheist, though it was another few years before I knew the word.

number10a · 07-04-2011 9:58pm

MissFlitworth wrote: »

sing about god making fish grow fins to tickle and wiggle and swim

birds grow beaks to peck and pick and I'm growing up to be me...... I now hate you getting that stuck in my head for the night.

See, the above is a great example of how we were brainwashed in school. Myself and MissFlitworth both remember this song from I reckon fourth class. I'm studying primary teaching now and I come across songs every so often in the religion programme that I still remember!! It's frightening. They must have been sung to death when we were in school. All I can say is that any kids that I end up teaching won't exactly end up devout when I'm finished "brainwashing" them. :rolleyes:

Lawrence1895 · 07-04-2011 10:36pm

I'm from a Lutheran family in Germany. The reason for me to become an atheist was the role, both churches played during the Nazi regime. Handing disabled people (even children) out of residential homes to the SS, giving their silent consent to mass murder in concentration camps.

I left the church with the age of 14 and I never felt any regret.

irishh_bob · 07-04-2011 11:12pm

was religous untill i was 21 , grew up in a dysfunctional home with an unloving father who undermined me on a regular basis , kept strong untill i was twenty despite being unhappy and left home and headed overseas , there i was the victim of viscious bullying in the workplace by a complete and utter nazi who destroyed me forever , it was then i realised that thier was nothing as useless as god or praying to god and that even someone were to proove to me his - her existance , i would want nothing to do with it

god is a cop - fireman - doctor who sits back and watches people drown , die of hunger , get raped , get murdererd , die of disease etc , how anyone can regard him as being about love truly baffles me the more i think of it

The straw that broke the camel's back

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