Medical Consultants

Guys everyone is entitled to see a consultant via the public waiting list, if you want to be seen quicker then you go private and pay, this is the same in the UK and in many other countries.

Doom, I'm not sure what your post means, what the "day of reckoning" is and how consultants are going to "pay", but the next time you want to resit the leaving cert, get results in the top 5% of students, go through 7 years of medical training then an average 10 years of post graduate study, training and exams to become a consultant, then you go right ahead, you can then take the moral high ground and do consultations for free to the masses.

ppink, I agree, in fact I would say the whole country agrees, the health system is a complete mess but thats a discussion for a different forum, this is about "rip-offs".

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

Snobby post much?

I assume the "day of reckoning" is when consultant fees in Ireland are on a par with the rest of europe.

Consultant radiologist in the HSE, payscale is €173,620.00 to €176,000.00.

Consultant radiologist in NHS, payscale is £74,504 - £100,446 (€85,873 to €115,757

Master I am sure consultant radiologists are paid a lot less in Bulgaria, as are people doing your job, we live in an age where people can hop on a plane and have treatment anywhere in the world, if you want your x-ray checked by a consultant in Ashingdon then move to the UK and go on the NHS waitng list there.

No snobbyness. if you want to be seen as a public patient for free then the service is available albeit with the customery waiting time just as in Ashingdon, if you want to be seen quicker then you go private and pay a private fee. This is the reality in most countries including the UK, have you any data on the private fees charged by a private consultant radiologist in Ashingdon?

juuge wrote: »

Just curious - how much would a consultant have to charge before you would consider it a 'rip-off'?

I suppose it depends on how badly I want to see him/her. I think it is difficult to put an appropriate price on this. On the one hand the consultant is free through the public system so assuming he/she will give you the same opinion whether you are public or private, you are actually paying a fee to skip to the front of the line so it depends on what value you put on this convenience.

As to what the consultant should charge, i think it should be borne in mind that a private consulting room involves paying rent, a receptionist, indemnity insurance for private practice which is necessary on top of indemnity for public practice (an Obstetrician pays €127,000.00 per year out of their own pocket, the HSE pays the public cost). If you take this figure alone and the Obs has one private clinic per week at €200 per consultation, the first 13 patients each day only cover the cost of the insurance based on a 48 week year (2 weeks for Christmas, 1 week holiday, 1 week on training course).

I also consider the minimum 17 years of training required to be a consultant, not many people can do this. Also I would imagine that it is difficult to attract top quality consultants to small irish Hospitals when opportunities may exist in other countries such as the UK or the US where more research/resources are available, remuneration may have had to be made attractive to secure their services.

In the end it depends on what price you put on health and what you are willing to pay to solve a health problem quickly. Incidently this "day of reckoning" crap when pay will be brought down perhaps by legislation is nonsensical, in the same way that the Government cannot dictate to a private engineering company what they charge for their products. The HSE can reduce consultant contracts but then there is a risk that the consultants will look elsewhere and posts particularly in regional hospitals will go unfilled, that means longer waiting lists and more anger.

I the last year my 6 year old son had to see an ENT consultant and my wife an Orthopeadic consultant, in both cases the private fee was €150.00 which i thought was reasonable but i do not live in Leinster.

davo10, your a consultant, yes?

juuge wrote: »

So that's it then. People have died and will continue to die on waiting lists. Why should anyone in a supposedly civilized society have to wait two years to see a consultant while at the same time the same consultant is beavering away in some private hospital because that's where the dosh is and you'll be seen in two weeks rather than two years. You know a Vet wouldn't see an animal suffer like that he/she will treat an animal irrespective of whether the owner has money or nor. I have never met a Vet that wasn't caring and dedicated they love their jobs, the same cannot be said for some doctors who clearly are motivated by money and greed.

As far as I am aware there is no public waiting list for veternery treatment, it is all private. Again Juuge, private medical practice exists in every country and people pay to be seen faster, if you are unhappy with the fees then it is your right not to pay them.

"Beavering away"?, is that what you call treating the sick?. I cannot comment on whether consultants are greedy or how they arrive at their fees but I would imagine the cost of having a consulting room in a new high tech clinic in Dublin would be more then in an old building in Roscommon. Why not travel to Portugal for the consultation?, not being smart but it's pretty easy to do now and by all accounts any medication prescribed by the consultant would be cheaper to purchase out there. Just a point, I wonder if there are Portuguese people complaining on a chat forum there about having to pay private fees to be seen.

As for the fees "paid by the state", I would assume that is for the work they do in the Hospital treating the 95% of patients who have not been seen in their private clinics.

Also Juuge, how much of that €230 is profit?, if the costs of running a private practice are say €100,000.00 (say €50k indemnity, €20K rent in a modern private clinic, €25k for a secretary to take bookings and arrange surgeries,theatre time, €5k sundries), that would mean the first 9 consultations per week cover costs.

Shelflife, if people are not seen privately, they would go on the public list awhich would then increase in size, the "nixers" you refer to are the treatment of the sick, hardly the same as doing a plumbing job at the weekend.

I would assume that when a private patient is treated in a public Hospital, the patient or their insurance company (VHI/Quinn etc) gets the bill, this I would imagine is an important way of raising revenue in Hospitals. I would also suspect that a lot of procedures are carried out in Private Hospitals.

But ppink, those who do not go private DO get treated albeit on the public waiting list. Private medical treatment exists alongside public treatment in every developed country in the World including France which by all accounts has an excellent public medical system. If I need to see a Professor, then there is something very wrong and I would expect to pay a higher fee which reflects his expertise, qualification and experience. God knows how long you have to train to become a medical Professor.

Juuge, as far as I know the percentage of private patients a consultant can see is capped. How many hours did your consultant's clinic last?, if it was 6 hours and the first 4 1/2 were to cover costs, then...

It favours the people who pay to be seen faster, that does not mean they are better off.