thyroid misery - Page 41 - boards.ie
Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
02-07-2012, 18:48   #601
Theresa66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
I forgot to say that I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis about twenty years ago, when I lived in the US. They told me I had antibodies and explained what that meant. They explained that they could tell that my thyroid was actually working because it was producing hormones, the problem was they were being attacked by my immune system! That was a big surprise to me after 20 years on thyroxine, and thinking my thyroid gland didn't work, and all the while having my blood levels monitored regularly by James's endocrinology dept!

So I was able to tell them in James's what was wrong with me when I moved back to Ireland, rather than the other way round!

Some might say what difference does it make at the end of the day if the treatment is the same for hashimoto's as for a non-functioning or non-existent thyroid gland, and if the end result of treatment is the same = normal thyroid levels?

I think it makes a world of difference because the immune system comes into play in a big way with hashimotos, and there are lots of things that can be done to help the immune system and prevent inflammation, through diet, supplements, exercise, etc. All this can help.

Also, hormones have a knock-on effect on other body systems. Why isn't this addressed?

What I don't understand is why the endos don't sit down and take a thorough case history of each patient, taking into account

1. hormone levels: oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone, insulin, adrenals (these are all affected by the thyroid and can have a huge effect on fertility, well-being, etc.)
2. allergies: gluten, dairy (because the proteins in gluten and casein are very similar to those in thyroid hormones and if the body produces antibodies to gluten and/or casein, these antibodies can then mistakenly attack the body - so if the allergen is eliminated the attack might be eliminated)
3. dietary deficiencies such as iron, b vitamins, selenium, copper, zinc (all needed for healthy thyroid functioning)
4. family history (leaning towards graves, hashis, non-Hodgkins lymphoma etc - my mother has autoimmune myelitis and my aunt has non-Hodgkins lymphoma - there is a gene that predisposes people to autoimmune disease) - not in the interests of a cure necessarily but in the interests of science, and also it is known that one autoimmune disease can lead to another - they need to explore this link.
5. mental state - is the patient anxious, depressed - and explain that this can be related to hormone disruption, and test for neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, gaba, etc. and compensate accordingly. Apparently the growth hormone is closely related to the production of the neurotransmitter responsible for the feel-good Gaba levels.

No, they test your T4, your TSH, tell you you're normal and off you go. Not only that, the medicine they give you has only one of the 4 thyroid hormones (the natural dessicated thyroid from pig's glands has T4, T3, T2, T1). They tell you that's alright because T4 is converted into T3 by the body (but there is evidence that some people have great difficult with this conversion). They don't bother to tell you selenium helps a great deal with this. And they don't really know what T2 and T1 do, so better not to have them. Although I'm sure there's a reason why pigs have them.

It just makes me so angry.
Theresa66 is offline  
Advertisement
02-07-2012, 20:22   #602
chessguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa66 View Post
I forgot to say that I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis about twenty years ago, when I lived in the US. They told me I had antibodies and explained what that meant. They explained that they could tell that my thyroid was actually working because it was producing hormones, the problem was they were being attacked by my immune system! That was a big surprise to me after 20 years on thyroxine, and thinking my thyroid gland didn't work, and all the while having my blood levels monitored regularly by James's endocrinology dept!

So I was able to tell them in James's what was wrong with me when I moved back to Ireland, rather than the other way round!

Some might say what difference does it make at the end of the day if the treatment is the same for hashimoto's as for a non-functioning or non-existent thyroid gland, and if the end result of treatment is the same = normal thyroid levels?

I think it makes a world of difference because the immune system comes into play in a big way with hashimotos, and there are lots of things that can be done to help the immune system and prevent inflammation, through diet, supplements, exercise, etc. All this can help.

Also, hormones have a knock-on effect on other body systems. Why isn't this addressed?

What I don't understand is why the endos don't sit down and take a thorough case history of each patient, taking into account

1. hormone levels: oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone, insulin, adrenals (these are all affected by the thyroid and can have a huge effect on fertility, well-being, etc.)
2. allergies: gluten, dairy (because the proteins in gluten and casein are very similar to those in thyroid hormones and if the body produces antibodies to gluten and/or casein, these antibodies can then mistakenly attack the body - so if the allergen is eliminated the attack might be eliminated)
3. dietary deficiencies such as iron, b vitamins, selenium, copper, zinc (all needed for healthy thyroid functioning)
4. family history (leaning towards graves, hashis, non-Hodgkins lymphoma etc - my mother has autoimmune myelitis and my aunt has non-Hodgkins lymphoma - there is a gene that predisposes people to autoimmune disease) - not in the interests of a cure necessarily but in the interests of science, and also it is known that one autoimmune disease can lead to another - they need to explore this link.
5. mental state - is the patient anxious, depressed - and explain that this can be related to hormone disruption, and test for neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, gaba, etc. and compensate accordingly. Apparently the growth hormone is closely related to the production of the neurotransmitter responsible for the feel-good Gaba levels.

No, they test your T4, your TSH, tell you you're normal and off you go. Not only that, the medicine they give you has only one of the 4 thyroid hormones (the natural dessicated thyroid from pig's glands has T4, T3, T2, T1). They tell you that's alright because T4 is converted into T3 by the body (but there is evidence that some people have great difficult with this conversion). They don't bother to tell you selenium helps a great deal with this. And they don't really know what T2 and T1 do, so better not to have them. Although I'm sure there's a reason why pigs have them.

It just makes me so angry.
@Theresa66

you mention"
"What I don't understand is why the Rndos don't sit down and take a thorough case history of each patient, taking into account "
Many of them never open a book after taking their respective jobs , they do not read new Published articles,and follow progress,

So their methods are primitive,

Once I mentioned something to a doc , he said how do you know this , I said the internet , his reply one should not trust the web,

my response it was a Published medical article ,proven by crossed methodology by several research labs.

he went quiet,,

I asked him what the last published medical article he read was about, regarding the thyroid

you could hear a pin drop he looked embarrassed.

This guy has been a Doc for over 40 years....

They should have mandatory periodic refresher courses, tests.

I have such tests and I only work on Mission critical systems, (they are not humans.)

##
your are correct ,not to change medication until you have the results from Tallaght,

I would not recommend Armour unless you have a regular thyroid panel done , and are under the eye of a good endo.

FT3 FT4 and the antibody tests need to be done,so see where you are today,
knowing you have hashimotos , makes a big difference ,


A good idea to have the minerals and especially vit b12 and vit d tested too.
These need to be in place for effective treatment,

good idea to read from Chris


http://chriskresser.com/selenium-the...hypothyroidism

see point 10

Additionally, supplementing selenium in the context of low iodine status may actually aggravate hypothyroidism. Mario Renato Iwakura discusses this particular topic extensively on Paul Jaminet’s Perfect Health Diet blog.

side note
chris mentioned previously iodine is like putting gasoline on fire , but has now changed his opinion, and agrees it needs to be stepped up with selenium..

http://chriskresser.com/the-gluten-thyroid-connection
the gluten connection I mentioned in a previous post all related to Dwarf wheat,highlighted by Dr Davis.

my prev post
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=79337275

And an excellent article on supplements by chris


http://chriskresser.com/9-steps-to-p...plement-wisely


goodluck
chessguy

Last edited by chessguy; 02-07-2012 at 20:52.
chessguy is offline  
02-07-2012, 22:56   #603
Theresa66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Thanks Chessguy, I had a look at those links, very useful info. It shouldn't have to be this way, patients having to diagnose themselves. It's unbelievable that doctors don't have to be tested for knowing up to date medical advances. The other thing is they don't talk to each other enough - the endos need to get together with the nutritionists and psychiatrists and neurologists to join the dots. I think vets are much better as they're more all-rounders and can see the big picture. Maybe I should go to a vet. Mind you, my dog eats a lot healthier than I do, mostly meat and veg leftovers, water, and a very occasional bit of a biscuit. I should probably try that for a while.
Theresa66 is offline  
03-07-2012, 22:56   #604
marymarcy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 32
Hi

Got B12 result, 554 and Folate 5.6. Should I still be supplementing at those levels? My Vitamin D is still rising with supplementation, 76 in recent test.

I need some help understanding the antibodies test. I have been told by some of ye on this thread to have tpoab, tgab and trab done.
All I see under the Antibodies headings on tests I've had are

January 2010
Anti Tissue Transglutaminase AB, which seems fine - 0.3, less than 1.9 being negative

Anti Nuclear Ab (IgC): Positive (weak) Homogeneous ANA pattern, Nucleolar ANA pattern

Anti Mitochondrial Ab, Anti Smooth Muscle Ab, Anti Liver/Kidney Microsom Ab, Anti Parietal Cell Ab, Anti Thyroid Microsomal Ab, all negative

Anti Thyroglobulin Ab: Positive (titre 1:1000)

Jan and April 2011
Anti Tissue Transglutaminase wasn't done, all the others are negative except Anti Nuclear Ab (IgC) which is positive plus 1 Homogeneous ANA pattern, and with tests last week the Anti Nuclear is positive plus 1 again.

Are these the tests i needed?

Thanks!
marymarcy is offline  
04-07-2012, 20:59   #605
chessguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125

Quote:
Originally Posted by marymarcy View Post
Hi

Got B12 result, 554 and Folate 5.6. Should I still be supplementing at those levels? My Vitamin D is still rising with supplementation, 76 in recent test.

I need some help understanding the antibodies test. I have been told by some of ye on this thread to have tpoab, tgab and trab done.
All I see under the Antibodies headings on tests I've had are

January 2010
Anti Tissue Transglutaminase AB, which seems fine - 0.3, less than 1.9 being negative

Anti Nuclear Ab (IgC): Positive (weak) Homogeneous ANA pattern, Nucleolar ANA pattern

Anti Mitochondrial Ab, Anti Smooth Muscle Ab, Anti Liver/Kidney Microsom Ab, Anti Parietal Cell Ab, Anti Thyroid Microsomal Ab, all negative

Anti Thyroglobulin Ab: Positive (titre 1:1000)

Jan and April 2011
Anti Tissue Transglutaminase wasn't done, all the others are negative except Anti Nuclear Ab (IgC) which is positive plus 1 Homogeneous ANA pattern, and with tests last week the Anti Nuclear is positive plus 1 again.

Are these the tests i needed?

Thanks!

@marymarcy

hope you find this useful,




Normal vitamin B-12 levels are 200 to 900 pg/mL. yours is 554

The normal range for folate is 2.7 to 17.0 ng/m yours 5.6

so looks like they both still need a little more work,,

you mention vit D is 76 you do not mention the lab range or what 76 actually is it could be nmol/L or ng/L diff types of measurement..


hmmm .....Lets have a look...

50 ng/mL (125 nmol/L) this is the desired range quoted by the Vit D council


so YOUR 76 if it is >> nmol/L could actually be 30.4 ng/ml

So looks like vit D needs more work too


To convert nmol/L to ng/L divide by factor of 2.5.

In Ireland it appears many labs seem to use nmol /L for this.


=======================
Did they say what they suspect or are looking for ?

Anti Tissue Transglutaminase AB often done in part to determine to coeliac disease auto immune diseases etc.

Other test in part to check for

systemic

lupus erythematosus, Sjögren's syndrome and rheumatoid arthritis .Amongst >> many others.



But these sets of test above can outline a picture for other things too,


what are they actually looking for in relation to these tests ??

These tests should be interpreted by the endo who has requested them , as only he knows the context they are to be viewed in,

(so basically only he knows what he is ruling in or out and appears to be doing that by various tests)
Has he /she mentioned what they are actully ruling out /in.

Good idea to ask the Endo. ..

Regarding the

Anti Thyroglobulin Ab test

A positive test means antithyroglobulin antibodies are found in your blood. This may be due to:

indicates thyroid issue , Hashimotos issues too. Amongst other things..


recall from prev post ;
Reckon you had the following checked T3, FT3 and t4, FT4, TSh as you are seeing an endo
cortisol.


tpoab
tgab
TRAb

do they know what kind of hypothyroidism you have ??
hashiomotos or T4 t3 conversion issue , or receptor uptake issue.??

Looks like the Endo is working systamatically to rule in / out , things , I reckon it may be a good idea to talk with him/her,to see where this is going..

of now now Spain calls,

Goodluck
chessguy

Last edited by chessguy; 04-07-2012 at 21:01.
chessguy is offline  
Advertisement
04-07-2012, 21:16   #606
treecreeper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 167
three types of hypothryoidism!!!! i didnt KNOW that!
twin and i both with hypothryoidism and feel ghastly all the time.
treecreeper is offline  
04-07-2012, 22:54   #607
chessguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by treecreeper View Post
three types of hypothryoidism!!!! i didnt KNOW that!
twin and i both with hypothyroidism and feel ghastly all the time.
@treekeeper, above hashimotos was type of hypothyroidism the other 2 were some of the causes of hypothyroidism,#


below types of hypothyroidism,
worth reading



http://www.progressivehealth.com/hyp...dism-types.asp


last post

before holidays

goodluck
chessguy
chessguy is offline  
25-07-2012, 00:27   #608
dubbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 55
Hi all,looking for a little more advice! I'm getting bloods done at the end of the week and have to fast for them(checking me for diabetes and Addisons as well as monitoring my underactive thyroid).my question is should I take my levothyroxine the morning of bloods as usual or will that mess up my results? Thanks,hope everyone is well
dubbo is offline  
25-07-2012, 15:35   #609
Wyldwood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 584
This thread has gone very quiet, everyone must be feeling great!

Dubbo, don't take your thyroid meds until after your blood test, it would distort your results.
Wyldwood is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
02-08-2012, 12:32   #610
dubbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 55
Just back from consultant,my tsh has gone from 9 to 7,so they're increasing my dose from 25 everyday,to 25 one day and 50 the other. Feeling so much better,thanks again to everyone on here who encouraged me to ignore my gp and go to an endocrinologist! Only thing is my antibodies are negative,which means it isn't auto immune which I don't really understand but feeling so much better regardless :)thanks again hope everyone is well
dubbo is offline  
03-08-2012, 14:45   #611
RubyGirl
Registered User
 
RubyGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubbo View Post
Just back from consultant,my tsh has gone from 9 to 7,so they're increasing my dose from 25 everyday,to 25 one day and 50 the other. Feeling so much better,thanks again to everyone on here who encouraged me to ignore my gp and go to an endocrinologist! Only thing is my antibodies are negative,which means it isn't auto immune which I don't really understand but feeling so much better regardless :)thanks again hope everyone is well
Did you not have to go thru the doctor to see an endocrinologist? Great to hear your feeling better.
RubyGirl is offline  
03-08-2012, 15:18   #612
dubbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 55
I did yeah but she wasn't supportive and thought I was a hypochondriac, I think she basically wrote the letter to get rid of me,but I got treatment in the end so happy out
dubbo is offline  
(2) thanks from:
26-08-2012, 08:36   #613
robinph
Moderator
 
robinph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: not Cork
Posts: 14,411
Send a message via ICQ to robinph Send a message via AIM to robinph Send a message via MSN to robinph Send a message via Yahoo to robinph Send a message via Skype™ to robinph
So I'm away from home for a couple of days, just opened my bag to find my pills to pop for this morning and realised I forgot them. Luckily the insulin pump being attached to me makes it hard to forget and I can cope with a bit of hay fever from forgetting my anti histamines.

I've not been on the levothyroxine long enough to have forgotten doses before though. Is this likely to make me feel rubbish later today, or will it be a couple of days? I expect there is no exact answer that applies to all but wondering if staying away from my supplies for two days is a good idea.

It's a bank holiday weekend over here so not sure I can get spare drugs from a helpful pharmacy so I might be better off going back home early this evening so that I only miss the one day.
robinph is online now  
26-08-2012, 10:24   #614
Wyldwood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 584
I don't think missing 2 days will make a huge difference unless your TSH is very high. Just make sure to get straight back on them when you come back. There's always a 24 hour pharmacy to try but they may not give them to you without prescription
Wyldwood is offline  
Thanks from:
27-08-2012, 13:50   #615
Staplor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maynooth
Posts: 538
Could someone PM me the name of any pharmacists stocking Armour? My GP has decided to prescribe it, just looking for a stockist now. I'm living in Maynooth, anywhere around Dublin? I also head to Limerick a bit too so anywhere along the N7 would work too.

Thanks.
Staplor is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet