Turncoats and Traitors

geeky · 07-01-2011 9:49am

My vote is with Figo too, just for the sheer bile his transfer prompted. It was nuts. The details of the deal were really bizarre too. It's the first 'holy fup' transfer I really remember.

eagle eye · 07-01-2011 9:56am

Eh has nobody brought this one up yet?

gosplan · 07-01-2011 10:00am

This is insane.

Gallas lived in London and played for Chelsea. They wouldn't play him in his preferred position but he got the opportunity to play Champions league football without upping and moving somewhere else. Arsenal then didn't want him but Spurs offered him the same choice.

I'm not the guy's biggest fan but when a club doesn't want you, it could hardly be expected that you should up sticks and move home, take a pay cut and go to less competitive team because of some perceived loyalty clause.

Same for Bentley. The guy's not going to make bad career choices on the basis of some loyalty to a club that didn't want him.

And Owen - go somewhere crap or go to United. How is he supposed to do anything else?

Cases like Sol's are a bit more genuine. Spurs did want him and he went for himself.

The winner has to be Redknapp - unless he deliberately got Southampton relegated before going back to Portsmouth.

Paparazzo · 07-01-2011 10:12am

Mo Johnson and Harry Redknapp are the 2 that stand out at being the worst.

Edit: good article about Mo Johnson here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jul/10/maurice-mo-johnston-rangers-celtic

L'prof · 07-01-2011 10:16am

andyman wrote: »

Very unfair on Bentley as well. Arsenal deemed him surplus to requirements for God's sake...

He forced his way out because he wanted more game time, a bit of patience could have went a long way. I had very high hopes for him, but he never fulfilled his promise!

pickarooney · 07-01-2011 10:34am

This 'turncoat' business is all a load of nonsense with regards to a professional player changing employers. And yet there are still legions of idiots who will take players at their word when they make the obligatory 'dream come true/boyhood fan/massive club' speech when they sign.

ntlbell · 07-01-2011 10:47am

wtf?

the f*cking turn coat king

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXpF2v0Kgvk

folan · 07-01-2011 10:55am

ntlbell wrote: »

wtf?
the f*cking turn coat king

in fairness to him, he was apparently so upset about that goal (which he believed relegated Utd) that he barely spoke to anyone for a day after that.

Also, he played for City in 60-61 season. so that he went to Trafford in the first place.......

did you know Giggs was in MCFCs school of excelence (youth training) before Fergie snapped him up. True story. Not a turncoat by any means, City should have signed him properly well before that, but its resented by many City fans to this day and he is (unfairly in my view) seen as one.

ntlbell · 07-01-2011 11:00am

folan wrote: »

Also, he played for City in 60-61 season. so that he went to Trafford in the first place.......

exactly city - utd - city

Does it get any worse!

IvyTheTerrible · 07-01-2011 11:03am

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I don't see how what is essentially changing jobs for the good of your career is being a turncoat? People in normal jobs do that all the time.

Iago · 07-01-2011 11:03am

This whole topic is nonsensical if you ask me, but if you all want to discuss it then knock yourselves out. However anybody using abusive language towards or to describe players or breaching the forum charter is going to be infracted

ntlbell · 07-01-2011 11:03am

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I don't see how what is essentially changing jobs for the good of your career is being a turncoat? People in normal jobs do that all the time.

stop talking sense and ruining our fun

k/thnx

folan · 07-01-2011 11:04am

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I don't see how what is essentially changing jobs for the good of your career is being a turncoat? People in normal jobs do that all the time.

People from Microsoft dont leave to work for Apple and visa versa all that often.

ntlbell · 07-01-2011 11:05am

folan wrote: »

People from Microsoft dont leave to work for Apple and visa versa all that often.

They do when the money is right!

folan · 07-01-2011 11:06am

ntlbell wrote: »

exactly city - utd - city

Does it get any worse!

could have started playing for Trafford Utd too?

quad_red · 07-01-2011 11:07am

eagle eye wrote: »

Eh has nobody brought this one up yet?

FTW!

Cole has to be the most universally hated player in the premiership. The self righteous delusion and pathetic 'outrage' he felt at only being offered 55k by Arsenal, his genuine 'childhood club' and the club he'd spent his entire career at and had won numerous medals.

But beyond that, it's the way he carries himself - A man who everyone loves to hate.

homerjay2005 · 07-01-2011 11:12am

This should be called the carlos tevez thread. Nobody comes close, the lad is about as loyal to a football club as john terry is to his missus.

IvySlayer · 07-01-2011 11:15am

MrStuffins wrote: »

Have to disagree with this one. While United supporters get their knickers in a bunch over Tevez, they also refuse to believe or accept that Tevez was willing to stay and was shown no loyalty by Man Utd.

I think it's very unfair to feck a player about and show him no respect and them b1tch about him moving to a rival, even if that rival in ManCity

No respect? He kept bitching about not being picked, threw a tantrum and left.

IvyTheTerrible · 07-01-2011 11:16am

homerjay2005 wrote: »

This should be called the carlos tevez thread. Nobody comes close, the lad is about as loyal to a football club as john terry is to his missus.

Wasn't Tevez treated like crap by Man Utd though? Or am I mistaken?

markesmith · 07-01-2011 11:16am

homerjay2005 wrote: »

This should be called the carlos tevez thread. Nobody comes close, the lad is about as loyal to a football club as john terry is to his missus.

Nah, there's worse than Tevez. He has no real allegiance to any of the teams in the Premiership, he was born thousands of miles away. Now if he signed for River Plate, that'd be different...

Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole are the worst examples of turncoatery (word? should be!), though Cole has to be the absolute worst, it was done completely for money. Campbell (hate to say this as a Spurs fan) moved to win, and to maximise his potential.

OhNoYouDidn't · 07-01-2011 11:18am

Judas Johnstone wins hands down.

Also honourable mention for this rat

matrim · 07-01-2011 11:18am

Craig Gardner, it's not so much that he moved to Birmingham as he wasn't being played at Villa so was right to look to move his career on (e.g. I've don't count Liam Ridgewell a traitor), it's the way he moved and things he said after he moved that would make me count him a traitor. He basically went from "I love Villa" to "I've always been a Birmingham supporter and hate Villa" in the course of a week.

Iago · 07-01-2011 11:21am

folan wrote: »

People from Microsoft dont leave to work for Apple and visa versa all that often.

nonsense

OhNoYouDidn't · 07-01-2011 11:21am

homerjay2005 wrote: »

This should be called the carlos tevez thread. Nobody comes close, the lad is about as loyal to a football club as john terry is to his missus.

But he is also Argentinian. He has no loyalty to any English club over another.

The real rat is the local, crest kisser who decides to move to the main rivals.

You must be 9 if you think that Tevez is a bigger rat than Judas Johnstone, Figo, Sol Campbell or Tony Grunt.

SlickRic · 07-01-2011 11:25am

Tevez definitely ranks below a few others.

he's more an unstable nutter than a turncoat.

in order IMO...

1) Luis Figo
Almost purely for the reaction it caused; a reaction he must have known on some level would come.

2) Ashley Cole
just so dislikeable, and that quote will haunt him forever...the one where he almost crashed at the thought of £65,000 a week.

3) Mo Johnson
the one, i'd argue, that most are compared to, due, again, to the feeling it caused when he crossed the Glasgow divide.

4) Sol Campbell
he probably could've gone anywhere from Spurs. it's quite amusing that he went down the road to Arsenal. i've been to WHL when they played Liverpool. he was chanted about horribly and he wasn't near the pitch obviously. it still hurt them 6 years after the event.

5) Luis Enrique
one that flies under the radar for a lot of us here as he became such a legend for Barca.

6) Carlos Tevez
although he seems an unpleasant human being, i did find it funny that he went to City as a bit of a fúck you to Utd

7) Alan Smith
'i'll never play for Utd' me hole.

8) Kenny Miller
would you ever make up your mind.

an honourable mention to Wayne Rooney for the 'once a blue, always a blue' horseshít.

Fr Tod Umptious · 07-01-2011 11:26am

Paparazzo wrote: »

Mo Johnson and Harry Redknapp are the 2 that stand out at being the worst.

Edit: good article about Mo Johnson here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jul/10/maurice-mo-johnston-rangers-celtic

Good article allright, interesting that it was John Sheridan that was expected to sign that day instead of Johnson.

If he had then surely he would be first name on this thread being called a turncoat

As for the earlier post saying changing clubs being no different than changing jobs
That is correct, but remember fans are far more obsessed with loyalty than players will ever be

IvySlayer · 07-01-2011 11:27am

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Wasn't Tevez treated like crap by Man Utd though? Or am I mistaken?

Define treated like crap.

As far as I'm aware, Carlos Tevez was a Manchester United player who got 63 appearances and 19 goals in 2 years. He won 2 premiership medals, a champion league medal, the carling cup and FIFA World Club Cup medal. That wasn't ****ing good enough for him.

Ush1 · 07-01-2011 11:31am

IvySlayer wrote: »

Define treated like crap.

As far as I'm aware, Carlos Tevez was a Manchester United player who got 63 appearances and 19 goals in 2 years. He won 2 premiership medals, a champion league medal, the carling cup and FIFA World Club Cup medal. That wasn't ****ing good enough for him.

Or Manchester United evidently.

IvySlayer · 07-01-2011 11:35am

Ush1 wrote: »

Or Manchester United evidently.

Did Man Utd not offer him a 5 year contract?

SlickRic · 07-01-2011 11:39am

IvySlayer wrote: »

Did Man Utd not offer him a 5 year contract?

they offered it after hmmming and hawwing for a long time over whether he was worth it.

rightly or wrongly, Carlos wasn't having any of it, and used the situation to find a club who would pay him better, at the club down the road.

he didn't give a shít about Utd, but Utd could have probably done more to get him to stay.

i'm pretty sure Utd thought they could offer the contract whenever they liked and he'd accept.

Ush1 · 07-01-2011 11:43am

IvySlayer wrote: »

Did Man Utd not offer him a 5 year contract?

They may have but they had also bought Berbatov and were often not starting Tevez, giving him dribs and drabs of games. Despite him helping to win the trophies you've listed.

IvySlayer · 07-01-2011 11:43am

SlickRic wrote: »

they offered it after hmmming and hawwing for a long time over whether he was worth it.

rightly or wrongly, Carlos wasn't having any of it, and used the situation to find a club who would pay him better, at the club down the road.

he didn't give a shít about Utd, but Utd could have probably done more to get him to stay.

i'm pretty sure Utd thought they could offer the contract whenever they liked and he'd accept.

I suppose he wanted everyone to break down in tears begging him to stay.

IvySlayer · 07-01-2011 11:44am

Ush1 wrote: »

They may have but they had also bought Berbatov and were often not starting Tevez, giving him dribs and drabs of games. Despite him helping to win the trophies you've listed.

He was part of a rotating squad. United were playing in 5 different compeitions that year ffs.

Keano · 07-01-2011 11:54am

Kris Commons - joined Forest's biggest rivals Derby.

Check out his attempt to remove the Forest tattoo

165030_187717127910595_147316751950633_769009_1776652_n.jpg

OhNoYouDidn't · 07-01-2011 11:55am

I'm sure the Tevez thing is fascinating to Man U fans, but back in the real world, the situation cannot be compared to the real rats out there who move from Celtic to Rangers, Barca to Real, Tottenham to Arsenal or Rovers to Bohs.

Judas Johnstone had to live in London because both sides of the Glasgow derby wanted his head on a platter. Tevez isn't the same league

SlickRic · 07-01-2011 11:56am

IvySlayer wrote: »

I suppose he wanted everyone to break down in tears begging him to stay.

well that's the extreme point of view.

he obviously, again rightly or wrongly, felt he wasn't appreciated, especially with the arrival of Berbatov taking much of his gametime after Carlos had formed a wonderful partnership with Rooney.

still, going to City was a kick in the balls to Utd fans, after he had just said he'd not go to Liverpool out of respect.

what a guy

gustavo · 07-01-2011 11:56am

IvySlayer wrote: »

He was part of a rotating squad. United were playing in 5 different compeitions that year ffs.

He still wasn't first choice
which he now is at his new club

Essien · 07-01-2011 12:08pm

Turncoat and Mercenary, people need to distinguish the 2. If a player has no emotional or historical link to a club and they switch to a rival club, they are a mercenary. They are professional footballers and unfortunately they tend to think like professionals ie: more money is a good thing.

iregk · 07-01-2011 12:10pm

Xavi6 wrote: »

I don't think thats traitor territory there. He wasn't that good/successful in his younger days at Real and certainly a lot of Real fans weren't exactly sorry or upset that he went. It was more of a meh...

homerjay2005 · 07-01-2011 12:17pm

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Wasn't Tevez treated like crap by Man Utd though? Or am I mistaken?

define treated like crap please, cos i really would love to hear this?

and lets leave his recent troubles at city and united, heres an interesting link for you....

http://www.football365.com/mediawatch/0,17033,8749_6574820,00.html

The Muppet · 07-01-2011 12:17pm

Sol Cambell for me for the way he treated Spurs,

For United Henize springs to mind for even wanting to go to Liverpool and Paul Ince for going there all be it via another club.

The Muppet · 07-01-2011 12:24pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

Have to disagree with this one. While United supporters get their knickers in a bunch over Tevez, they also refuse to believe or accept that Tevez was willing to stay and was shown no loyalty by Man Utd.

I think it's very unfair to feck a player about and show him no respect and them b1tch about him moving to a rival, even if that rival in ManCity

He's on £250k after tax at city, he was never in a million years staying at United, It was all orchestrated to make him look like the victim.

End of

Who in their right mind would turn down and offer like that out of loyalaty to another club. For that reason he wouldn't even feature in my list.

IvyTheTerrible · 07-01-2011 12:29pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

define treated like crap please, cos i really would love to hear this?

and lets leave his recent troubles at city and united, heres an interesting link for you....

http://www.football365.com/mediawatch/0,17033,8749_6574820,00.html

Ah ok interesting link. I didn't realise he was so much of a drama queen.

SlickRic · 07-01-2011 12:31pm

The Muppet wrote: »

He's on £250k after tax at city

your point kinda stands, but let's just get the facts a bit straight, maybe you could clarify.

Toure is the highest paid in the league at £220k is he not? with i'd imagine Tevez not far behind.

Tevez wants more (£300k reportedly), but he never signed a new contract.

Paparazzo · 07-01-2011 1:18pm

Never mind the politics of the Tevez move, who here wouldn't move out of a company they don't like for another thats offering 4 times the wages? I wouldn't include Tevez in this thread at all.

That_Guy · 07-01-2011 1:20pm

Turncoat in a way but tbh I was actually delighted to see this happen... eventually.

fkiely · 07-01-2011 1:23pm

From a West Ham perspective in the last few years: Paul Ince, Harry Redknapp, Jermaine Defoe and Frank Lampard stick out.

SlickRic · 07-01-2011 1:26pm

i may be opening old wounds, but what did Frank actually do?

simply move from West Ham to Chelsea?

or is there something more?

Essien · 07-01-2011 1:44pm

SlickRic wrote: »

i may be opening old wounds, but what did Frank actually do?

simply move from West Ham to Chelsea?

or is there something more?

I don't remember too much fuss anyway, Joe Cole did the same thing 2 years later and I haven't seen his name mentioned.

HalloweenJack · 07-01-2011 1:46pm

I think a lot of people are going too far with their accusations of turncoats/traitors.

Imo, there's a few reasons where I'd be less harsh on the player:
- if the player hasn't had a distinguished career at the first club (Craig Gardner, David Bentley)
- the clubs are separated by a few divisions
- the first club aren't giving him first team football
- the player hasn't even played for the senior squad
- the player isn't from the local area (Paul Ince, Luis Enrique, Titus Bramble, Carlos Tevez, the list is endless)
- the two teams involved aren't even rivals (Paul Ince (West Ham to Man U), Wayne Rooney)
- the player doesn't transfer directly from one club to another (again, Paul Ince)
- the player isn't happy at the first club, for whatever reason

If the player in question is one who's dumb enough to say "I love so-and-so" or "I'd never play for so-and-so", etc., then they deserve to be labeled any given name under the sun if they then leave to join a rival.

At the end of the day, footballers are a lot different than fans. Fans will only ever have one team and would never dream of ditching them. The vast majority of players only want to play regularly or chase money or glory, regardless of what team they're with. They may say things like "I'll never leave" but a lot of this is just done for show, no matter how genuine they may sound.

I think fans need to stop thinking that footballers have the same mindset as them cause its obvious they don't.

FWIW, the biggest traitor is Raúl. :P

Turncoats and Traitors

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