[Steve]

Originally Posted by hoplite

What point was made there Steve? We disapprove of txt speak but can throw profanity around in a constructive thread to make a point? As long as we stick an * somewhere in the word then thats cool. I call bullsh*t.

The point is this:
If the post is directed at an individual then it's deemed personal abuse. It the post is a general statement that happens to include a (perhaps unnecessary) colourful metaphor then it's not personal abuse.

I've asked Lemming to tone down said metaphors.

Now, on with the thread - if you wish further clarification, my pm inbox awaits.

[Danin]

As I mentioned in the other thread and Steve touched on briefly, I'd like to recommend a protocol be put in place that if a newly appointed moderator clearly does not work out in the role, then there is a way for that person to be relinquished of their position, in a dignified manner

be it a grooming/trial period, were by at the end of it they are assessed by their peers(existing mods&admin) and given feedback or asked to step down graciously (exactly like airsoft where there should never be a stigma attached to being hit and likewise being asked to step down after a trial period it just means it didn't work out)

I think this is a way in which the community would then not feel lumbered with a disfunctioning mod and a lot of frustration and angst would be avoided.

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Danin

As I mentioned in the other thread and Steve touched on briefly, I'd like to recommend a protocol be put in place that if a newly appointed moderator clearly does not work out in the role, then there is a way for that person to be relinquished of their position, in a dignified manner

Whilst I'll not disagree with your suggestion Danin, what defines "clearly does not work out"? Is there a metric that might be applied?

If one were to go trawl through feedback & helpdesk; you'll encounter a thread complaining about most moderators on the airsoft forums by someone or other (save perhaps kdouglas the lucky chap ) edit: he does have one. Moderation is not - by its inherent nature - a popular thing to do and someone somewhere is always going to be disgruntled.

[Airsoft Reloded]

Originally Posted by Lemming

Whilst I'll not disagree with your suggestion Danin, what defines "clearly does not work out"? Is there a metric that might be applied?

If one were to go trawl through feedback & helpdesk; you'll encounter a thread complaining about most moderators on the airsoft forums by someone or other (save perhaps kdouglas the lucky chap ) edit: he does have one. Moderation is not - by its inherent nature - a popular thing to do and someone somewhere is always going to be disgruntled.

We'd all agree with you there and fair play to those who make the effort but would you not agree that when the entire community is in agreement over a certain mod that it is an obvious next step?

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Airsoft Reloded

We'd all agree with you there and fair play to those who make the effort but would you not agree that when the entire community is in agreement over a certain mod that it is an obvious next step?

Not necessarily an obvious next step but I certainly wouldn't rule it out as it all very much depends on circumstance. Appearances can be deceptive after all and what may seem like "the community" might turn out to be one particular circle of users and it'll just "seem" like everyone's making noise (as has happened in the past).

I do believe that where mods genuinely are falling down they should be allowed the good grace to take note rather than calling for the hangman's noose so to speak. Whilst it is desirable to discourage poor judgement calls (consistent or not) - mods are users too and ergo fallible - you don't want a situation where mods are afraid to make moderator decisions either. To do so is to invite paralysis of the forums.

[Vents]

Originally Posted by Airsoft Reloded

We'd all agree with you there and fair play to those who make the effort but would you not agree that when the entire community is in agreement over a certain mod that it is an obvious next step?

I would have to question this part of the post. Mainly for one fact. I am part of this community and I don't remember sharing my thoughts on the subject with anyone.

Now, if you could provide factual consensus on the subject I feel you would have grounds for some sort of action.

I feel the above post is a little inaccurate.



...........and what Lemming said..........

[Danin]

Originally Posted by Lemming

Whilst I'll not disagree with your suggestion Danin, what defines "clearly does not work out"? Is there a metric that might be applied?.

I'd say that this would be an internal review consisting of experienced Mods and Admin staff and it would allow them the flexibility to ask someone to step down the same way as any other working position functions with a trial period. Sometimes someone ticks all the boxes on paper but in practice they don't work out.

Sorry if I didn't make this clear in my first post Lemming, I meant it to be taken in the context of a totally internal admin perspective and nothing to do with the general public forums likes or dislikes.

I hope this clears things up a bit

[Danin]

Sorry just one more thing I hope no one thinks my suggestion was geared towards any existing mod, it honestly wasn't it was just something I wanted to suggest with regards to change of protocol moving forward in the future, if a revision was made.

[Airsoft Reloded]

What part of the post is inaccurate? I never said the whole community is in agreement, I asked what if they were.

Thats a fair point Lemming, so in your opinion is there anything that can be done, both as an ex-mod, a visitor and a player?

Originally Posted by Vents

I would have to question this part of the post. Mainly for one fact. I am part of this community and I don't remember sharing my thoughts on the subject with anyone.

Now, if you could provide factual consensus on the subject I feel you would have grounds for some sort of action.

I feel the above post is a little inaccurate.



...........and what Lemming said..........

[Dogwatch]

Originally Posted by Airsoft Reloded

We'd all agree with you there and fair play to those who make the effort but would you not agree that when the entire community is in agreement over a certain mod that it is an obvious next step?

In my opinion the entire community do not agree with you. A small vocal minority have decided that someone does not agree with them and have decided unilaterally that this moderator is unsuitable.

Please do not make all emcompassing statements on my behalf.

[Airsoft Reloded]

Originally Posted by Dogwatch

In my opinion the entire community do not agree with you. A small vocal minority have decided that someone does not agree with them and have decided unilaterally that this moderator is unsuitable.

Please do not make all emcompassing statements on my behalf.

See above dude

Why not let the sites/retailers/event organisers mod their own thread (Obviously with no power to ban or suspend people) with one Boards mod overseeing . Your not allowed to say anything negative on any of those threads so its not like you'll get a lot of posts deleted that the mods wouldn't do anyway. This would free up mods for the main forum and that would limit the need for new mods.

I don't know if that has been said before but it would allow the experienced mods to be the ones on the main forum and perhaps limit (if even slightly) some of these issues? And what Danin said.

[Dogwatch]

Originally Posted by Airsoft Reloded

See above dude

Why not let the sites/retailers/event organisers mod their own thread (Obviously with no power to ban or suspend people) with one Boards mod overseeing . Your not allowed to say anything negative on any of those threads so its not like you'll get a lot of posts deleted that the mods wouldn't do anyway. This would free up mods for the main forum and that would limit the need for new mods.

I don't know if that has been said before but it would allow the experienced mods to be the ones on the main forum and perhaps limit (if even slightly) some of these issues? And what Danin said.

I do not see the the problem as a moderator problem.

I think the problem lies with the content of posts which then require moderation because the poster is too quick to hit the submit key or has other issues which should not be placed on a public forum.

As has been noted in other threads, other entities read and note the content of the forums and it behoves us( the users) to maintain a high standard.

Those among us who are unwilling or unable to maintain these standards should, in my opinion, be moderated.

[Airsoft Reloded]

But its a forum..... People are going to say what they think (in their own style) and very regularly disagree. I get what your saying though, its not a community forum problem its a community problem and the problem with that is the only way to sort it out is with more moderation which is seen (by a lot of people apparently) as the issue in the first place.

Originally Posted by Dogwatch

I do not see the the problem as a moderator problem.

I think the problem lies with the content of posts which then require moderation because the poster is too quick to hit the submit key or has other issues which should not be placed on a public forum.

As has been noted in other threads, other entities read and note the content of the forums and it behoves us( the users) to maintain a high standard.

Those among us who are unwilling or unable to maintain these standards should, in my opinion, be moderated.

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Airsoft Reloded

Thats a fair point Lemming, so in your opinion is there anything that can be done, both as an ex-mod, a visitor and a player?

There is already an internal process for mod review. I know of it but I was not ever privy to its workings other than that site employees and admins (maybe smods too)? would examine circumstances around a particular moderator's name cropping up an awful lot. How much is "an awful lot" I couldn't tell you. Mods have been removed in the past; this isn't an alien concept to boards.ie, but you need to consider whether or not those screaming from the rooftops are being reasonable and justified in their demands.

Beyond that I don't have any "Step 1,2,3" regarding resolution. Smarter and more experienced people than I have figured that one out already so attempting to re-invent the wheel is a moot exercise IMO.

Originally Posted by Airsoft Reloded

Why not let the sites/retailers/event organisers mod their own thread (Obviously with no power to ban or suspend people) with one Boards mod overseeing. Your not allowed to say anything negative on any of those threads so its not like you'll get a lot of posts deleted that the mods wouldn't do anyway. This would free up mods for the main forum and that would limit the need for new mods.

I don't know if that has been said before but it would allow the experienced mods to be the ones on the main forum and perhaps limit (if even slightly) some of these issues? And what Danin said.

The sites/retailers/organisers would be herded into either the biz category, or hosted. If nobody here has ever heard of those categories, then I would suggest you all pause for reflection first before asking for the above.

But regardless of the above, I don't think it would solve anything tbh as the sites/retailers/organisers threads are not a problem for the most part. And the issue of users own behaviour has still not been addressed.

[Dogwatch]

Originally Posted by Airsoft Reloded

But its a forum..... People are going to say what they think (in their own style) and very regularly disagree. I get what your saying though, its not a community forum problem its a community problem and the problem with that is the only way to sort it out is with more moderation which is seen (by a lot of people apparently) as the issue in the first place.

Again I have to disagree with you.

If the users of the forum maintain the standard as laid down by the admins, then the moderators are out of a job. when the boundaries are continually pushed, the moderators are overwhelmed with complaints and need help.

If you want less moderators and moderation just behave and abide by the various boards charters.

It might be better if we all took time out and re read the charters just to remind ourselves of the type of behaviour that is required.

As an aside I have noticed that since the C Mods and Admins visited our little world that the standard of behaviour has improved.

( I am sure we will find somthing to agree about soon)