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FORD FOCUS 1.6TDCi Whistling Noise

  • 13-12-2010 7:15pm
    #1
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    My 2005 Ford focus 1.6tdci developed a strange kind of whistling noise today. Seems to get higher pitched as you rev and then disappears at higher revs. Problem seems to exist only around 1500 to 2000 revs, or maybe i just cant hear it after that.

    Has anyone had this problem or anyone any advice on what it might be.

    Thanks


Comments

  • #2
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Turbo whine?
    you sure it hasbt been there all along?


  • #3
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    Definetly only started today.


  • #4
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Have the exact same thing on a Ford Focus 1.4.

    It's the auxiliary drive belt. It might be slightly worn and when wet it makes a whistling sound. If you rev the engine in neutral with the bonnet up, you'll be able to hear where it's coming from for sure.


  • #5
    homer90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭homer90


    Split hose/pipe :confused:


  • #6
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    kceire wrote: »
    Turbo whine?
    you sure it hasbt been there all along?

    Turbo was the first thing that came to my mind also but of course not sure.


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  • #7
    Berty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,152 ✭✭✭✭Berty


    It's one of those

    "Sounds expensive" moments of your life. :(


  • #8
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    Berty wrote: »
    It's one of those

    "Sounds expensive" moments of your life. :(


    Isn't it always.....I hope you are wrong


  • #9
    Row
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    When the engine is switched off,remove the turbo intake pipe at the front of the engine and you should be able to see/feel the turbo shaft...if there is alot of play in the shaft and its rubbing off the outer housing then its goosed.
    There is a certain amount play on these shafts.
    Is the engine down on power..??


  • #10
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    Right, so i had a look around the engine bay, oil on a metal pipe coming of the turbo.

    Also, some oil on another plastic pipe the other side of turbo.

    Now......

    I went to start the engine to go up the road for something, lights on dash flashing and strange clicking noises. Went for a run and then turned engine off. She wouldn't start again with out the help of a booster pack. WTF.

    Could the whistling be an alternator problem????


  • #11
    Row
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    Sounds like a poor battery or a bad connection..did you check the battery terminals for good contact..??
    If you have a multimeter to see what the alternator is out putting..??
    check battery voltage when engine is @idle and when engine is turned off.


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  • #12
    geespot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭geespot


    altenator is fooked need to get a new one


  • #13
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    Battery connections are fine, brought it for a run there and it started again no probs....believe it or not but my multimeter if broken, awaiting new one in post.

    Oddly, the whistling noise has now died down abit.

    I didn't do anything only open a few pipes to see if there was oil in any of them and a few bits like that.

    I'm stumped


  • #14
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    Row wrote: »
    When the engine is switched off,remove the turbo intake pipe at the front of the engine and you should be able to see/feel the turbo shaft...if there is alot of play in the shaft and its rubbing off the outer housing then its goosed.
    There is a certain amount play on these shafts.
    Is the engine down on power..??

    I did that, is it a little shaft with like a propellor/impellor on it. if so, it seems fine, no play and it spins freely


  • #15
    geespot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭geespot


    which bit of altenator fooked did you not understand


  • #16
    Row
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    Randyleprechaun wrote: »
    is it a little shaft with like a propellor/impellor on it.
    Yep thats it...:)


  • #17
    Row
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    geespot wrote: »
    which bit of altenator fooked did you not understand

    How can you tell the alternator has failed without any testing...:confused:


  • #18
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    geespot wrote: »
    which bit of altenator fooked did you not understand


    Have you experience of it or any reason for being sure.

    I'm not saying you're wrong or anything


  • #19
    swe_fi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭swe_fi


    Randyleprechaun wrote: »
    Hi,

    My 2005 Ford focus 1.6tdci developed a strange kind of whistling noise today. Seems to get higher pitched as you rev and then disappears at higher revs. Problem seems to exist only around 1500 to 2000 revs, or maybe i just cant hear it after that.

    Has anyone had this problem or anyone any advice on what it might be.

    Thanks

    Maybe thats not it but just an idea, that sound came up on my gf's Focus 07 (petrol) and it turned out to be a leaking / loose pipe for the power steering / hydraulics. It was more whistling continuously though, but it started of just hissing from time to time in the beginning. I don't know the layout of the engine off the top of my head but could the fluid that you noticed have have seeped from there to where you found it?


  • #20
    bazz26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,293 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    My old S40 1.6d (same engine as the Focus) had a strange whistling sound when you reved it. Ended up being a broken plastic clip on the breather pipe. Small bit of oil leaking from it too. No other issues though, replaced the breather pipe and the whistling sound was gone.


  • #21
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    Well, van started no problem this morning and the whistling noise is either gone or gone so low I can't hear it!!!!!

    Popped the bonnet after driving 20K's to work and the alternator isn't hot or anything so..........dunno will I just keep her lit until something surfaces again or what I'll do!!!!!


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  • #22
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    Row wrote: »
    When the engine is switched off,remove the turbo intake pipe at the front of the engine and you should be able to see/feel the turbo shaft...if there is alot of play in the shaft and its rubbing off the outer housing then its goosed.
    There is a certain amount play on these shafts.
    Is the engine down on power..??

    Engine is not down on power, on that topic, should there be traces of oil in those pipes leading to the turbo?

    Thanks


  • #23
    Row
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    Randyleprechaun wrote: »
    Engine is not down on power, on that topic, should there be traces of oil in those pipes leading to the turbo?

    Thanks

    Yes this common as the engine breather pipe is tee'd into the turbo intake.
    5w 30 fully syn oil is recommened for these engines...if its the 110bhp then this oil needs to be dpf friendly.
    btw your turbo sounds o.k if there is very little play in the shaft ...:)


  • #24
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    Row wrote: »
    Yes this common as the engine breather pipe is tee'd into the turbo intake.
    5w 30 fully syn oil is recommened for these engines...if its the 110bhp then this oil needs to be dpf friendly.
    btw your turbo sounds o.k if there is very little play in the shaft ...:)

    Thanks for that, I see that the metal pipe coming from the turbo seems to be leaking some oil. had that problem before and replaced that pipe about 40K ago. seems like it's recurring problem with that pipe.


  • #25
    geespot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭geespot


    is the altenator brand name visteon if so they are complete dirt and unlike most altenators cant be repaired. obviously the more pressure they or under the more likely they or to fail they will go sudden enough so if it was snowing some night you have lights on heater demister on you could easily get stuck. try running the car and putting on as much electrics as possible and see if alt makes any noise


  • #26
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    A couple of things here. The throttle body sits above the alternator on these. There is an o-ring seal inside where the intake pipe goes into it. If you see oil around this joint then replace the o-ring and tighten it up. This can cause your whistling!

    What can happen is that oil from this joint can drip down onto the alternator and cause no / poor charge symptoms. Also those alternators have a clutch pulley that causes no charge problems as well, and people automatically assume that they alternator is knackered when it's just the pulley.

    I also suspect that there's a bit of a charging weakness in these cars. Even though they have a SMART (ahem!) charge system, I've seen evidence which suggests that the system struggle to cope at tickover on a cold morning when the front and rear heated screens are turned on.


  • #27
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    geespot wrote: »
    is the altenator brand name visteon if so they are complete dirt and unlike most altenators cant be repaired. obviously the more pressure they or under the more likely they or to fail they will go sudden enough so if it was snowing some night you have lights on heater demister on you could easily get stuck. try running the car and putting on as much electrics as possible and see if alt makes any noise

    My experience of Visteon alternators wouldn't be good either, but I'm certain that the one in Focus is a Denso.


  • #28
    Andrew42
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 137 ✭✭Andrew42


    My car developed that noise a while back, sounded like a cop car at a distance coming up behind you, thought it might be the turbo til I noticed the brake pedal was gone a bit soft too. Turned out to be a vacuum hose. Simple and inexpensive, it's not always the end of the world when you here an odd noise;)


  • #29
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    geespot wrote: »
    is the altenator brand name visteon if so they are complete dirt and unlike most altenators cant be repaired. obviously the more pressure they or under the more likely they or to fail they will go sudden enough so if it was snowing some night you have lights on heater demister on you could easily get stuck. try running the car and putting on as much electrics as possible and see if alt makes any noise

    No it's denso
    shamwari wrote: »
    A couple of things here. The throttle body sits above the alternator on these. There is an o-ring seal inside where the intake pipe goes into it. If you see oil around this joint then replace the o-ring and tighten it up. This can cause your whistling!


    What can happen is that oil from this joint can drip down onto the alternator and cause no / poor charge symptoms. Also those alternators have a clutch pulley that causes no charge problems as well, and people automatically assume that they alternator is knackered when it's just the pulley.

    I also suspect that there's a bit of a charging weakness in these cars. Even though they have a SMART (ahem!) charge system, I've seen evidence which suggests that the system struggle to cope at tickover on a cold morning when the front and rear heated screens are turned on.

    There is indeed oil on this throttle body above the alternator. Would i need to go to main dealer for the O-ring or just try and get one to match. What exactly would i be asking for.


  • #30
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    That O-ring can be got from Ford and its cheap (€4 I think). However it is awkward to fix and I'd suggest getting someone to do it for if you haven't taken on a job like this before. It is a lot trickier than it looks.


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  • #31
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    geespot wrote: »
    is the altenator brand name visteon if so they are complete dirt and unlike most altenators cant be repaired. obviously the more pressure they or under the more likely they or to fail they will go sudden enough so if it was snowing some night you have lights on heater demister on you could easily get stuck. try running the car and putting on as much electrics as possible and see if alt makes any noise

    Put a load on the alternator and no unusual noises to be heard.

    I have noticed though that when you put a load on it(especially the front demister) the lights dim a lot more than they used to!!!!

    Alternator on way out??? Should the alternator be hot aftera journey or how hot should it be??


  • #32
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    The SMART charging system on Focus is not a straightforward beast - see here

    Having said that those Denso alternators are, not to put too fine a point on it, crap. The regulators give grief, the clutch pulleys give grief, and I even had one with a fried stator on it because it had overheated badly (probably the windings going short-circuit). Also, the SMART charge system requires that you have the correct type of battery fitted (a calcium I think).

    The only way to check the alternator performance is initally is with a voltmeter and ensure you are getting around 13.5V. The lights may go dim as the load increases, but as I said in an earlier post, I have misgivings about the entire charge system being able to cope with electric heated windscreens and the likes running at tickover. If you've got an oil leak onto the alternator from the intake system then this is not going to help your cause at all either.

    Finally, if you have a decent scantool to hand, the PCM does log EOBD fault codes for the SMART charge system and other abnormalities like low battery voltage. Again, from memory, a SMART alternator fault throws something like a P1632


  • #33
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    Thanks Shamwari
    shamwari wrote: »
    The SMART charging system on Focus is not a straightforward beast - see here

    Having said that those Denso alternators are, not to put too fine a point on it, crap. The regulators give grief, the clutch pulleys give grief, and I even had one with a fried stator on it because it had overheated badly (probably the windings going short-circuit). Also, the SMART charge system requires that you have the correct type of battery fitted (a calcium I think).

    The only way to check the alternator performance is initally is with a voltmeter and ensure you are getting around 13.5V. The lights may go dim as the load increases, but as I said in an earlier post, I have misgivings about the entire charge system being able to cope with electric heated windscreens and the likes running at tickover. If you've got an oil leak onto the alternator from the intake system then this is not going to help your cause at all either.

    Finally, if you have a decent scantool to hand, the PCM does log EOBD fault codes for the SMART charge system and other abnormalities like low battery voltage. Again, from memory, a SMART alternator fault throws something like a P1632

    The original battery is still in the van.

    I'm still waiting for my new multi meter to arrive but I'll have to borrow one to check this alternator.

    I have a decent scan tool and the only code showing is a pending code P1412 which is to do with the EGR system. It's to do with the steel pipe from the turbo, an issue with a crack on a weld for a bracket on that pipe. Replaced pipe about 40,000Km's ago and it sorted it. not too worried about that code for the minute as it's not causing any issues while driving yet. Will replace again when symptoms show.


  • #34
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Randyleprechaun wrote: »
    Thanks Shamwari



    The original battery is still in the van.

    I'm still waiting for my new multi meter to arrive but I'll have to borrow one to check this alternator.

    I have a decent scan tool and the only code showing is a pending code P1412 which is to do with the EGR system. It's to do with the steel pipe from the turbo, an issue with a crack on a weld for a bracket on that pipe. Replaced pipe about 40,000Km's ago and it sorted it. not too worried about that code for the minute as it's not causing any issues while driving yet. Will replace again when symptoms show.

    I'll check the exact meaning of the P1412 code later, but I wouldn't be surprised if the intake leak over ther alternator might have something to do with it ;)


  • #35
    Randyleprechaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Randyleprechaun


    From previous research I think P1412 is EGR valve frozen, but I would say you could be right, it could be a leak anywhere in the system that is showing up this code.


  • #36
    geespot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭geespot


    oil getting into altenator will rapidly shorten its life


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  • #37
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Randyleprechaun wrote: »
    From previous research I think P1412 is EGR valve frozen, but I would say you could be right, it could be a leak anywhere in the system that is showing up this code.
    Yep, P1412 is EGR seized, but the odd thing here is that this usually accompanies a P0404 :confused:

    Anyhow, I doubt if P1412 is anything to do with a leaky intake, or a duff alternator :D


  • #38
    Row
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    Its worth giving the egr valve a clean..some pics on here...:)
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055791335


  • #39
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Row wrote: »
    Its worth giving the egr valve a clean..some pics on here...:)
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055791335
    There's a PCM recalibration (which can be performed by the Ford main dealer) which is aimed at cleaning the EGR valve. After the engine is switched off, the valve is opened and closed rapidly several times in quick succession, and this basically shakes the carbon off the valve. Over time, it is likely that the valve may still coke up, but this measure is aimed at reducing premature coking. Originally, some valves were completely gummed up in 20K miles.

    @Row, did PSA rollout software updates to do same on their cars?


  • #40
    Row
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    shamwari wrote: »
    There's a PCM recalibration (which can be performed by the Ford main dealer) which is aimed at cleaning the EGR valve. After the engine is switched off, the valve is opened and closed rapidly several times in quick succession, and this basically shakes the carbon off the valve. Over time, it is likely that the valve may still coke up, but this measure is aimed at reducing premature coking. Originally, some valves were completely gummed up in 20K miles.

    @Row, did PSA rollout software updates to do same on their cars?

    Afaik peugeot include this in there engine download....I have came across a few (newer) 1.6 hdi's which carry out this self cleaning after the engine is switched off.
    I usally clean my egr every 20k or so.I remove the motor part of the egr and give it a blow out...I notice the bearings on the rollers get jammed up with carbon and once its cleaned out it fine for a while.

    OP...Heres the inside of the valve if you want to give yours a clean.
    Before cleaning....
    Image0043.jpg

    After cleaning....
    Image0046.jpg


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