The Future of Ireland's LGBT Movement

Dr. Baltar · 01-11-2010 3:38am #1

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I've come to realise how far we have come. Considering that when I was three years of age, it was still illegal for someone to be bi/homosexual I consider myself to be very lucky to be living in such times.

With Civil Marriage a few years a way in my views and the possible prospect of the first Gay Irish President too I have to ask myself where the next step is?

For me personally (leaving the blood donation issue out) once civil marriage has been achieved I think the future of the LGBT movement lies at the grassroots of society as oposed to the top.

For me, an ideal society would be one where a same sex couple can walk down the street and not have anyone bat an eyelid at this. However, I believe the only thing that can make this happen is time.

I believe that the majority of people aged between 12 and 30 at the moment definately have a positive view of LGBT people. So logically, it would seem to me that the next generation, our children will not look down upon same sex couples.

Looking back on what I've posted, I don't think that I've conveyed exactly what I wanted to in words, but hopefully you will get the main idea. Essentially, where do you think we'll be in X amount of years? Can you see the view of homosexuals becoming more negative... ect?

Chuchoter · 01-11-2010 11:14am

I think it hangs on the economic situation to be honest. If in ten or 15 years we are still getting gradually poorer every year the LGBT movement is screwed, because when people are poor and unhappy all the minorities become more hated.

If everything stays about the same as it is now, I think an ideal society to me would be one where it is unnecessary to do the whole 'coming out' drama, and its about as exciting as announcing you want to dye your hair blonde. I would like to see schools giving equal notice to LGBT students, in both extra-curricular and an SPHE sphere of things. Basically I would like to see gay and straight people on par with each other in all senses, but I don't really see that happening for maybe 30-40 years (am I just incredibly negative?

)

gmale · 01-11-2010 11:26am

crayolastereo wrote: »

I think it hangs on the economic situation to be honest. If in ten or 15 years we are still getting gradually poorer every year the LGBT movement is screwed, because when people are poor and unhappy all the minorities become more hated.

I agree with you but for a completly different reason! I think if the economic situation continues to decrease in the way that it has to now (and I completely believe that it will get worse) we wont be hated but we wont see all the new benefits that civil marriage can bring.

A traditional marriage (husband and wife and children) would be given numerous tax breaks and allowances etc from the Government. Gay & Lesbian couples or DINKy's (Double Income No Kids) as some people like to call us have never received such tax breaks. I would imagine as the budgets get harsher the usual tax benefits that Heterosexuals receive will decrease and the likelyhood of us receiving any will completely disappear!

I reckon in the future we will still be campaigning for acceptance, tolerance and equality.

baby and crumble · 01-11-2010 12:49pm

Considering that when I was three years of age, it was still illegal for someone to be bi/homosexual

My GOD I feel old!!!!

But in response, I'm coming from a weird angle, because I have genuinely never had any negative reactions from coming out. I seem to live in a world and with people who have no problem with me being gay, and for that I am eternally grateful- the academic and university sphere tends to be be pretty open and chilled.

I do think though that some of our efforts need to be put into challenging stereotypes- I know people say they do, but the opinion out there from someone who knows no gay people is that the men are limp wristed and great at interior design, and that all lesbians have shaved heads, and want to be men. And often the scene and the community propagates these stereotypes. I have no problem with whoever a person wants to be, but us 'quiet ones' who are very different, and the most outlandish thing we do is go mad and get an extra helping of icecream on a THURSDAY! (not a weekend :eek:) need to come more to the fore. Because the thing that makes people not care about if people are gay is having people who DON'T fit the scary stereotypes in their lives.

Just my 2c.

Dr. Baltar · 01-11-2010 3:07pm

zoegh wrote: »

My GOD I feel old!!!!

But in response, I'm coming from a weird angle, because I have genuinely never had any negative reactions from coming out. I seem to live in a world and with people who have no problem with me being gay, and for that I am eternally grateful- the academic and university sphere tends to be be pretty open and chilled.

I do think though that some of our efforts need to be put into challenging stereotypes- I know people say they do, but the opinion out there from someone who knows no gay people is that the men are limp wristed and great at interior design, and that all lesbians have shaved heads, and want to be men. And often the scene and the community propagates these stereotypes. I have no problem with whoever a person wants to be, but us 'quiet ones' who are very different, and the most outlandish thing we do is go mad and get an extra helping of icecream on a THURSDAY! (not a weekend :eek:) need to come more to the fore. Because the thing that makes people not care about if people are gay is having people who DON'T fit the scary stereotypes in their lives.

Just my 2c.

I completely agree with this post. I've never experienced homophobia apart from when I kissed a guy in a chipper after a night out and someone went "ugh... gross".

As for challenging stereotypes hell yes I agree!

Chuchoter · 01-11-2010 3:44pm

Thats why I think we should change pride at least for the time being. Have an entire parade about individuality, along the lines of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsjOlsG9ZG4

I think its important to both celebrate people who do fall into stereotypes, and people who don't!
(Also, I was born the year they made it legal to be gay!)

MultiUmm · 01-11-2010 5:11pm

crayolastereo wrote: »

Thats why I think we should change pride at least for the time being. Have an entire parade about individuality, along the lines of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsjOlsG9ZG4

I think its important to both celebrate people who do fall into stereotypes, and people who don't!
(Also, I was born the year they made it legal to be gay!)

Kind of off topic, but that was the video I watched that inspired/ gave me the confidence to come out to my family. :pac: Shame a lot of the people in it don't make videos any more.

Annasopra · 01-11-2010 7:56pm

crayolastereo wrote: »

I think it hangs on the economic situation to be honest. If in ten or 15 years we are still getting gradually poorer every year the LGBT movement is screwed, because when people are poor and unhappy all the minorities become more hated.

I'm not quite sure if I agree with this - I'm aware of anecdotal evidence about increased racism but not anything else

Annasopra · 01-11-2010 8:06pm

gmale wrote: »

I agree with you but for a completly different reason! I think if the economic situation continues to decrease in the way that it has to now (and I completely believe that it will get worse) we wont be hated but we wont see all the new benefits that civil marriage can bring.

A traditional marriage (husband and wife and children) would be given numerous tax breaks and allowances etc from the Government. Gay & Lesbian couples or DINKy's (Double Income No Kids) as some people like to call us have never received such tax breaks. I would imagine as the budgets get harsher the usual tax benefits that Heterosexuals receive will decrease and the likelyhood of us receiving any will completely disappear!

I reckon in the future we will still be campaigning for acceptance, tolerance and equality.

again I don't think I agree with this - Civil Partnership will in my view create equal treatment in the tax laws and will also in my view create a new cultural acceptance - Kids in 5/10 years will see civil Partnership ceremonies as something entirely normal - The media will call it marriage and over time there will be a lot more acceptance of LGBT people

I am also convinced that Ireland will in the next 10 years have a lot more openly gay elected politicians - the youth wings of all parties have numerous LGBT members

The future of the LGBT movement - Hmm, I'll come back to this in detail - I think we will see more people openly out around all 26 counties -

L.Jenkins · 01-11-2010 10:21pm

crayolastereo wrote: »

I would like to see schools giving equal notice to LGBT students, in both extra-curricular and an SPHE sphere of things. Basically I would like to see gay and straight people on par with each other in all senses, but I don't really see that happening for maybe 30-40 years (am I just incredibly negative? )

www.gsanetwork.org

They're doing it in the US already and would be good if it caught on here in Ireland. I found a link to it be accident while watching an interview with Shirley Phelps, a woman who preaches that homosexuality is the devil inadvertently providing links to LGBT inititives.

Louisevb · 01-11-2010 11:43pm

Nothing hangs on an economic downturn.. Equality and human rights matter all the time and in fact are more important in a downturn.
The LGBT movement needs to become involved in the rights of others, particularly in the straight population, looking outward instead of seeing how much we have all progressed and slackening off on the pressure for Civil Marriage and on other issues that need to be equality proofed

Coeurdepirate · 05-11-2010 11:38pm

crayolastereo wrote: »

Thats why I think we should change pride at least for the time being. Have an entire parade about individuality, along the lines of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsjOlsG9ZG4

I think its important to both celebrate people who do fall into stereotypes, and people who don't!
(Also, I was born the year they made it legal to be gay!)

(OT)
I absolutely fúcking love Davey Wavey. I've been subscribed to him for over a year now, and his babies are mine.

Oracle · 06-11-2010 8:30pm

In 10 years time we will be exactly where we are now, maybe a few laws will have changed. The way society views homosexuals, depends on how the LGBT movement aligns itself politically. Based on the previous 20 years, the answer is yes, homosexuals will be seen more negatively.

Louisevb wrote: »

Nothing hangs on an economic downturn.. Equality and human rights matter all the time and in fact are more important in a downturn.
The LGBT movement needs to become involved in the rights of others, particularly in the straight population, looking outward instead of seeing how much we have all progressed and slackening off on the pressure for Civil Marriage and on other issues that need to be equality proofed

I agree with Louisevb, the LGBT movement should fight for equality as a shared struggle with other groups.

ongarboy · 08-11-2010 2:19pm

Oracle wrote: »

In 10 years time we will be exactly where we are now, maybe a few laws will have changed. The way society views homosexuals, depends on how the LGBT movement aligns itself politically. Based on the previous 20 years, the answer is yes, homosexuals will be seen more negatively.

I'm not sure I agree with this statement 100%. Yes, I agree organised movement will help further the cause for more openness and acceptance but I also feel other more subtle factors will actually have far more reaching benefits for the gay community and wider society.

Each generation is more open and less narrow minded than the previous generations in relation to many previously taboo topics (eg think sex outside marriage, pregnancies out of wedlock, contraception, divorce, being gay etc are not taboo subjects any longer). Mainstream media continues to normalise gayness with each passing year. More primetime TV shows have major characters who are gay but whose gayness isn't their sole raison d'etre for being on such shows (think Will & Grace, Brothers and Sisters, Six Feet Under, Eastenders). Boyband members and X Factor participants and winners are openly gay. The Irish Apprentice has a gay apprentice and apart from the candidate himself bringing it up in the first episode, it was never since mentioned nor did anyone care or raise eyebrows. The recent wonderful documentary about young people growing up gay in Ireland did not reinforce stereotypes but educated and publicised and dare I say "normalised" being gay in Ireland.

My long winded point is that none of this would have happened 20, 15 or even 10 years ago or if it was brought up, there would have been such a hoo-haa over it. The sitcom Ellen was cancelled in the USA in the mid 90s because the network who showed it feared advertisers would boycott the network due to Ellen coming out. 10 years later, Ellen has her own successful chat show on a mainstream network and her gayness is never an issue.

Even the most homophobic of gutter tabloids, the Sun, does not spout it's anti gay hatred so blatantly anymore for fear it alienates some of it's readers. That particular journal still has a long way to go however...

there will always be haters who actively want to further the anti gay movement and there will be media outlets from time to time that create setbacks for the gay community but mainstream society in developed countries has moved too far ahead to ever go back to what people had to endure in past.

gmale · 08-11-2010 4:47pm

Following on from a discussion in the Irish Economy section of Boards, the article by Morgan kelly in todays Irish Times makes for interesting reading in relation to the economy (its very depressing, only read it if sitting down).

All in all the country is fooked but near the end of the article Morgan states

Morgan Kelly, Irish Times 08/11/2010 wrote:

As ordinary people start to realise that this thing is not only happening, it is happening to them, we can see anxiety giving way to the first upwellings of an inchoate rage and despair that will transform Irish politics along the lines of the Tea Party in America. Within five years, both Civil War parties are likely to have been brushed aside by a hard right, anti-Europe, anti-Traveller party that, inconceivable as it now seems, will leave us nostalgic for the, usually, harmless buffoonery of Biffo, Inda, and their chums.

Interestingly in the same thread it was pointed out that Sarkosy in France is adopting a more militant stance with the expulsion of the Roma and right wing groups are gaining momentum in Germany and Austria...now I am not saying that we have anything to worry about from Germany or Austria or France, right wing parties have always had their place in European politics but rarely have they had a pressence of significance in Ireland. The most recent flurry into right wing politics came with Declan Ganley and thankfully that didnt last long, however, he has not gone away and many of his supporters are still sitting in the long grass. If Ireland does move to the right, should the LGBT community be worried?

I think so, right wing groups like the Tea Party movement place the "traditional" family values at the fore of their beliefs and policies. Like it or not, we are not traditional.

I think as a matter of survival, we need to join with other marginalised groups in society and work on a united front to achieve equality and acceptance for all.

Annasopra · 08-11-2010 6:54pm

Gmale I broadly agree with you - the problem is there are many right wing LGBT people who wouldn't think that way and I think this will be a point of future conflict -

Chuchoter · 08-11-2010 11:50pm

I completely agree with you gmale, although in the past I know I've come off as very exclusionary (I was very angry at the time, sorry about that), but I do think we need to start fighting for causes bigger than our selves, I think single fathers rights would be a great place to start.

The only thing is, I don't know if many other minorities would want to be attached to us.

The Future of Ireland's LGBT Movement

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