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STT Rail Security

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  • 20-10-2010 6:25pm
    #1
    Alpha Papa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭


    Hi frequent commuters

    Just looking for info on them? Curiosity and all that...

    Ive seen them in passing on trains and in Connolly and the like.

    Are they essentially just like shop security? They have powers/authority of the owner i.e IR/Veoila to move on homeless or trouble makers on from locations/platform?

    Do they ever preform citizens arrest in situation of breach of the peace or the like?

    Do they detain people before handing them over the Gardai etc?

    Are they authorised persons for Irish Rail under byelaws or the like?

    Can they make demands for details or issue fines? or is this all done by IR revenue staff?

    what sort of equipment do they carry? handcuffs?

    Many Thanks for any info..
    Tagged:


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    #2
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    They're lads with an air of self importance who should probably lay off the steroids. They seem to make a hobby out of eye balling my boyfriend and stalking us around the station.


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    #3
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,186 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Are they essentially just like shop security? They have powers/authority of the owner i.e IR/Veoila to move on homeless or trouble makers on from locations/platform?
    Yes

    Do they ever preform citizens arrest in situation of breach of the peace or the like?
    Yes but then again anybody can. IE might not let them do this for fear of legal issues afterwards.

    Do they detain people before handing them over the Gardai etc?
    They have the same power as security guards in a retail premises so yes but see above.

    Are they authorised persons for Irish Rail under byelaws or the like?
    No idea, most likely knowing IE they are not.

    Can they make demands for details or issue fines? or is this all done by IR revenue staff?
    No they can make no demands for tickets or issue fines as they are no IR staff, they are security contractors.

    what sort of equipment do they carry? handcuffs?
    Sometimes they have torches, no batons or handcuffs or any offensive weapons are allowed. As like all in the security industry they must display their PSA number clearly at all times with a photo ID.


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    #4
    mgmt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭mgmt


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    what sort of equipment do they carry? handcuffs?
    Sometimes they have torches, no batons or handcuffs or any offensive weapons are allowed. As like all in the security industry they must display their PSA number clearly at all times with a photo ID.

    A Maglite full of batterys is more brutal than a baton.

    1789070_29198_full.jpg&t=1


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    #5
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    They like all security guards must display their security Id clearly at all times but is having it tucked inside a tiny window sewn onto the shoulder of their jacket so high up you you need to be ten feet tall to see it displaying it clearly?


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    #6
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    Just to correct an error.

    No security guard can move you from a public place which all luas stops are. Only Gardai can under the Public order Act 1994


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    #7
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,972 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Eru wrote: »
    Just to correct an error.

    No security guard can move you from a public place which all luas stops are. Only Gardai can under the Public order Act 1994

    No, actually STT staff can move you on under Transport laws in Ireland.


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    #8
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,253 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Eru wrote: »
    Just to correct an error.

    No security guard can move you from a public place which all luas stops are. Only Gardai can under the Public order Act 1994
    Most Luas stops are private property, merely with a public aspect. You are confusing a public place and public road.

    Are you suggesting that a Dunnes Stores security guard can't get someone to leave their forecourt or car park?


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    #9
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    Eru wrote: »
    Just to correct an error.

    No security guard can move you from a public place which all luas stops are. Only Gardai can under the Public order Act 1994

    Like Victor says, no Luas stops are public land. They are private land with public access. AFAIK even the ones on footpaths have been ceeded by the local authority (or DDDA) to the RPA.


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    #10
    dermot_sheehan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭dermot_sheehan


    If they are appointed authorised officers they have powers of arrest and to order people to leave railway property:
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0031/sec0129.html#sec129
    “22A.—(1) If an authorised officer reasonably suspects that a person—
    (a) is contravening or has contravened or is failing or has failed to comply with a provision of bye-laws made under section 22 of this Act which is stated in the bye-laws to be a penal provision,
    (b) is committing or has committed an offence under section 59(1) of this Act, section 25 of the Transport (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1971 , or section 118 or 132 of the Railway Safety Act 2005,
    (c) is assaulting or has assaulted or is causing or has caused deliberate harm to another on railway property,
    (d) is causing or has caused wanton or deliberate damage to railway property,
    (e) is obstructing or has obstructed or is impeding or has impeded an authorised officer in the exercise of his or her duties under this section or any provision of bye-laws made under section 22 of this Act which is stated in the bye-laws to be a penal provision,
    (f) on any railway property is intoxicated or is committing or has committed an offence under section 15 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 , or
    (g) if requested by an authorised officer to cease such contravention or action or to so comply, fails to comply with the request,
    he or she may—
    (i) using such reasonable force as the circumstances require, remove or escort the person from the railway property or any part of it,
    (ii) in circumstances where the officer considers it to be justified, arrest the person without warrant, or
    (iii) require the person to give his or her name and address and, if the person fails or refuses to do so or gives a name that the authorised officer reasonably suspects is false or misleading may arrest that person without warrant,
    and, if he or she is not a member of the Garda Síochána, deliver, as soon as practicable, the person, if arrested, into the custody of a member of the Garda Síochána to be dealt with according to law.
    (2) A person who fails or refuses to give his or her name or address when required under subsection (1) of this section, or gives a name or address which is false or misleading, is guilty of an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €1,000.
    (3) The Board may appoint such and so many persons as it considers necessary to be authorised officers for the purposes of this section or any provision of bye-laws made under section 22 of this Act which is stated in the bye-laws to be a penal provision.
    (4) An authorised officer, who is not a member of the Garda Síochána, is not entitled to exercise a power under this section unless he or she has received training and instruction, which, in the opinion of the Board is such as will provide guidance to him or her in the exercise of the power.
    (5) The Board shall endorse on the warrant it furnishes to an authorised officer under subsection (6) of this section a statement to the effect that the officer has received the training and instruction referred to in subsection (4) of this section.
    (6) An authorised officer, who is not a member of the Garda Síochána, shall, on his or her appointment under this section, be furnished by the Board with a warrant of his or her appointment as an authorised officer.
    (7) An authorised officer, who is not a member of the Garda Síochána, when exercising a power under this section shall be in uniform provided or authorised by the Board.
    (8) The arrest of a person under this section does not prejudice the re-arrest of the person by a member of the Garda Síochána.
    (9) An authorised officer, who is not a member of the Garda Síochána, may be referred to by the Board by such title as it decides.
    (10) In this section—
    “authorised officer” means a person appointed under this section or a member of the Garda Síochána whose attendance is requested by an authorised officer or by the Board;
    “railway property” means all land, buildings, railway infrastructure (within the meaning of the Railway Safety Act 2005), rolling stock and vehicles within the control of the Board.
    (11) In this section a reference to the committal of an offence or an act includes a reference to an attempt to commit the offence or the act.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0031/sec0073.html#sec73

    (15) In this section, “railway property” means all land, buildings, railway infrastructure, rolling stock and vehicles under the control of a railway undertaking.


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    #11
    North Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭North Face


    Apart from the Gardai, does anyone know of any examples of IE appointing these Authorised Officers?


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    #12
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Victor wrote: »
    Most Luas stops are private property, merely with a public aspect. You are confusing a public place and public road.

    Are you suggesting that a Dunnes Stores security guard can't get someone to leave their forecourt or car park?
    markpb wrote: »
    Like Victor says, no Luas stops are public land. They are private land with public access. AFAIK even the ones on footpaths have been ceeded by the local authority (or DDDA) to the RPA.

    They can remove people from Luas stops, agreed.

    At the same time, aren't there rights of ways across some of the Luas stops -- mainly on the red line in the city centre -- as these form parts of pedestrian walk ways?

    With a public right of way, it does not matter who owns the land.


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    #13
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    markpb wrote: »
    Like Victor says, no Luas stops are public land. They are private land with public access. AFAIK even the ones on footpaths have been ceeded by the local authority (or DDDA) to the RPA.

    Are you sure the rpa own a piece of Store street, several parts of Abbey street and saint stephen's green west? especially as one of the Abbey street stops is the footpaths.


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    #14
    ShadowFox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox


    I've only ever seen Stt move on drug abusers beggers and troublesome youths and adults from Luas stops and train stations I for one am glad their thete I feel my wife and kids are safer there should be more of them out there


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    #15
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    They should deploy the lot of them on the Luas red line. :p


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    #16
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,253 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    North Face wrote: »
    Apart from the Gardai, does anyone know of any examples of IE appointing these Authorised Officers?
    Its not something they publish.

    While the Revenue Protection Units would certainly be authorised officers and the cleaners are unlikely to be, the exact line of who is and who isn't is unclear.


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    #17
    leddpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 513 ✭✭✭leddpipe


    pixiebean22 wrote: »
    They're lads with an air of self importance who should probably lay off the steroids. They seem to make a hobby out of eye balling my boyfriend and stalking us around the station.

    :rolleyes:


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    #18
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,334 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    An intelligent comment might excuse the resurrection of a year old thread, a smiley alone doesn't cut it.


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    #19
    leddpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 513 ✭✭✭leddpipe


    coylemj wrote: »
    An intelligent comment might excuse the resurrection of a year old thread, a smiley alone doesn't cut it.

    what about a smiley and a subsequent response to said smiley? I was tickled by that posters paranoid and presumptive summation of what is in fact a serious job and beneficial public service! 'is all ;)


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    #20
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,334 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    leddpipe wrote: »
    what about a smiley and a subsequent response to said smiley? I was tickled by that posters paranoid and presumptive summation of what is in fact a serious job and beneficial public service! 'is all ;)

    On second thoughts maybe you should stick to the smilies, they make more sense.


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    #21
    leddpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 513 ✭✭✭leddpipe


    coylemj wrote: »
    On second thoughts maybe you should stick to the smilies, they make more sense.

    I'm sorry I confused you :(


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    #22
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,253 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Constructive posts only please.


This discussion has been closed.
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