The 1957 Beddy Report - Proposed Map

dermo88 · 08-09-2010 5:00am #1

This the proposed 1957 Map of the Irish Railway network. It does include the Northern Ireland routes prior to the 1963 Benson Report.

Partizan · 08-09-2010 9:53am

dermo88 wrote: »

This the proposed 1957 Map of the Irish Railway network. It does include the Northern Ireland routes prior to the 1963 Benson Report.

Thansk for that dermo. The map is pretty much what eventually did become most of the railway network by the late 1980s with the exception of Portarlington - Athlone and Limerick - Ballybrophy.

Even that proposed map is utter madness as it proposed to close viable lines like Harcourt Street - Bray and Waterford - Tramore.

dermo88 · 08-09-2010 6:52pm

Agree. I'd also like to see what could be done with the Northern situation.

It looks a bit more "balanced", in terms of network coverage though. Huge swathes of the Mid West and North west get cut. Overall, however, in terms of population coverage, then and now, 3/4 of the population are still within 20 kilometres of a railhead.

As for cutting Harcourt Street to Bray, in 1957, 1958, 1959, it was not really seen as that large a cut, considering it carried 1,000 passengers per week (50,000 per annum), through an affluent middle class area with a high level of car ownership. Traffic congestion, parking charges, and other modern problems just did not figure in Dublin back then, and it was certainly not envisaged. It was in the late 1960's, and early 1970's that it definitely was seen as an error.

Hungerford · 08-09-2010 10:25pm

Here's some other interesting maps:

Sean Barrett's preferred network for Irish Rail from c. 1978:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2705/barrett.jpg

The Irish Rail network in 2009:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2219/ir2009.jpg

The Irish Rail network as it is likely to stand at the end of this year:
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/152/ir2010.jpg

The Irish Rail network if we believe everything they say in 2015:
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/2928/ir2015.jpg

The Irish Rail network I suspect we will actually get in 2015:
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7104/ir20151.jpg

Judgement Day · 09-09-2010 10:45am

I think that your 2015 map is unduly optimistic.

T Corolla · 09-09-2010 4:56pm

Hungerford wrote: »

Here's some other interesting maps:

Sean Barrett's preferred network for Irish Rail from c. 1978:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2705/barrett.jpg

The Irish Rail network in 2009:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2219/ir2009.jpg

The Irish Rail network as it is likely to stand at the end of this year:
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/152/ir2010.jpg

The Irish Rail network if we believe everything they say in 2015:
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/2928/ir2015.jpg

The Irish Rail network I suspect we will actually get in 2015:
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7104/ir20151.jpg

I was surprised that Mullingar-Athlone was closed in favour of Portarlington-Athlone. Irish rail could have merged Galway-Sligo-Westport-Ballina onto one train and as is the case in other european countries could have split/merged sevices or reduced their drivers no by providing train in Mullingar for Sligo in Athlone for Westport-Ballina and the remainder go on to Galway. The line from Portarlington-Athlone could have been used for non stop east west services. The line from Portarlington to Tullamore connected to Roscrea to provide for the Limerick train and Cork line be used for non stop and multistop services for both Limerick and Cork. This would have been a more market spread for what is a very expensive to provide. A non stop service from Sligo could have been provided via Cavan via Navan. My point is in the lesser densely populated area non stop sevices would have been more popular.

Bogger77 · 09-09-2010 5:02pm

T Corolla wrote: »

The line from Portarlington to Tullamore connected to Roscrea to provide for the Limerick train and Cork line be used for non stop and multistop services for both Limerick and Cork.

Tullamore, or Athlone have never been connected to Roscrea. There was a line from Roscrea to Birr.

T Corolla · 09-09-2010 5:30pm

Bogger77 wrote: »

Tullamore, or Athlone have never been connected to Roscrea. There was a line from Roscrea to Birr.

I was under the impression that there was. Is the line from Roscrea to Birr still around. I suppose they could build one in the future. My main point was that the market for rail services was limited and could have been expanded . I forgot the Waterford non stop could go via Rosslare and would taken in the now Rosslare to Waterford line.

Bogger77 · 09-09-2010 5:32pm

T Corolla wrote: »

I was under the impression that there was. Is the line from Roscrea to Birr still around. I suppose they could build one in the future. My main point was that the market for rail services was limited and could have been expanded . I forgot the Waterford non stop could go via Rosslare and would taken in the now Rosslare to Waterford line.

Barely, it's been closed since before WW2, there's some bridges left and it's trackbed hasn't been built on much, but the station in Birr has been converted to other uses

dermo88 · 09-09-2010 6:54pm

I suspect this is what will come to pass. But Waterford to Limerick is doubtful also. Ballina branch is also at risk.

Judgement Day · 09-09-2010 7:41pm

Bogger77 wrote: »

Barely, it's been closed since before WW2, there's some bridges left and it's trackbed hasn't been built on much, but the station in Birr has been converted to other uses

Not unless WWII ended on the 1/1/1963, which is when all passenger and freight traffic ceased on the Roscrea/Birr branch.

T Corolla · 09-09-2010 9:18pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Not unless WWII ended on the 1/1/1963, which is when all passenger and freight traffic ceased on the Roscrea/Birr branch.

Is the land still in CIE ownership

Hungerford · 09-09-2010 9:46pm

dermo88 wrote: »

I suspect this is what will come to pass. But Waterford to Limerick is doubtful also. Ballina branch is also at risk.

But the Ballina branch is missing from your file.

It's a very interesting contrast - both of us agree that the Nenagh branch will be shut but you believe that Limerick-Waterford would be retained and that none of the planned projects would progress whereas I take the opposite point of view.

Judgement Day · 09-09-2010 10:03pm

T Corolla wrote: »

Is the land still in CIE ownership

I shouldn't think so given that the land in that area is reasonably good. In places like County Leitrim CIE still own miles of the narrow gauge trackbed as the land was worthless. Anyway since it's CIE/IE's intention to close Limerick/Ballybrophy it doesn't really matter does it?

T Corolla · 09-09-2010 10:59pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I shouldn't think so given that the land in that area is reasonably good. In places like County Leitrim CIE still own miles of the narrow gauge trackbed as the land was worthless. Anyway since it's CIE/IE's intention to close Limerick/Ballybrophy it doesn't really matter does it?

True. it will never be built in my lifetime

L1011 · 10-09-2010 1:00am

Why is everyone assuming NIR won't have eventually closed the Derry line by 2015? Its been proposed more times than Limerick-Ballybrophy and the south Wexford put together!

Hungerford · 10-09-2010 10:51am

The fact that they are currently buying new rolling stock for the route, investing in upgrading the track, planning to build a new terminus and the fact that passenger numbers keep on growing might have something to do with it.

It's becoming the NIR equivalent of the Sligo line.

T Corolla · 10-09-2010 11:41am

Hungerford wrote: »

The fact that they are currently buying new rolling stock for the route, investing in upgrading the track, planning to build a new terminus and the fact that passenger numbers keep on growing might have something to do with it.

It's becoming the NIR equivalent of the Sligo line.

Very good point. I used the Belfast-Derry service and I felt it was pretty good. The journry was two hours long that could be improved and the train was something similar to our railcar. If the tracks were upgraded it could be used as a Dublin-Derry connection with journey time of 3hrs

corktina · 10-09-2010 11:48am

imsurprised you have Waterford to Limerick Junc still there! This and the southern part of the Rosslare line look at risk to me.

Cool Mo D · 10-09-2010 12:00pm

I really doubt that the Nenagh or Waterford - Limerick-Junction lines will close by 2015. Those lines pass through quite a lot of constituencies, and politically, closing them would leave too much egg on someone's face.

More likely you will see a gradual reduction in service, to a couple of trains a day, journey times slowed, and general neglect, but there will still be a train running.

To be honest, it all depends on what priority the next Government decides to put on rail transport, and how the economy shapes up over the next 5 years. If they close, expect it to happen at least 10 years from now.

Hungerford · 10-09-2010 4:54pm

T Corolla wrote: »

Very good point. I used the Belfast-Derry service and I felt it was pretty good. The journry was two hours long that could be improved and the train was something similar to our railcar. If the tracks were upgraded it could be used as a Dublin-Derry connection with journey time of 3hrs

I've used it before and I was impressed. The railcars used are more comfortable and quiet than any of IEs apart from the 22k series and the ride was generally excellent although they do need to do some serious work on the section from Derry to Coleraine.

The 1957 Beddy Report - Proposed Map

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