Traders want more pedestrianisation off Grafton Street

monument · 19-07-2010 3:10pm #1

Traders submitted a plan for more pedestrianisation off Grafton Street to Dublin City Council under the public consultation for the city development plan.

Details at dublin2walk.com, including a map (PDF). They also have a Facebook account.

The plan includes maintaining access to the multi-story car parks in the area.

The site says:

Our primary objective is to maximise the pedestrian usage in the following streets; Balfe St, Chatham Ln, Chatham St, Clarendon St, Drury St, South William St, St Andrew Street, Grafton Street/St. Stephens Green and surrounding area, extending the Grafton area pedestrian zone by almost double its current size, while at the same time maintaining and optimising the usability of the local main public car parks, namely: Trinity Street car park, Brown Thomas Car park, Drury St Multi Story Car park, Drury St Under Ground Car park and St Stephens Green/Collage of Surgeons Car park.

The Sunday Business Post covered this a few months back, here.

Chris_5339762 · 19-07-2010 4:27pm

Funny how one batch of traders wants pedestrianisation and another around College Green whined and whined about how no cars would make them lose money.

Mr. Presentable · 19-07-2010 4:34pm

Seems perfectly reasonable. It's a small enough area in any case.

JayeL · 19-07-2010 5:54pm

I work in an office on South William St with a car park; would that just be unusable if the street was pedestrianised?

GerardKeating · 19-07-2010 7:06pm

JayeL wrote: »

I work in an office on South William St with a car park; would that just be unusable if the street was pedestrianised?

Nope and a few more car parks will be stranded..

monument · 19-07-2010 7:12pm

JayeL wrote: »

I work in an office on South William St with a car park; would that just be unusable if the street was pedestrianised?

Under the trader's proposals, yes, it would be unusable. But these are only proposals and the proposals may never see the light of day.

Even if the council liked the traders' idea, they could do it in different ways. The proposals could be altered to not include some streets or to allow access. Or some or all of the streets could be made pedestrian priority / or shared space rather than fully pedestrianised.

This is what the full proposal says about these types of car parks:

7.3 PRIVATE CAR PARKS
There are several small private car parks at various locations along the new proposed pedestrian zone that hold typically between 3 and 10 cars, one could estimate that they would account for 50 spaces in total. Whereas these car parks would no longer be accessible they could however under the plan potentially become significant retail opportunities.

JayeL · 20-07-2010 7:33pm

Our office alone has space for 20-25 cars, maybe I should tell them!

We're moving out next year anyway so it probably won't affect us but it'll affect whoever takes the place after us.

bloomfield · 21-07-2010 12:06pm

Amongst all the talk of improving the area for pedestrians, the plans seem to put an aweful lot of focus upon getting cars into carparks. Do we assume that the only shoppers these traders want to attract are car owners? If not, then where are the proposed improvements for shoppers who use public transport, walk or cycle?

Cool Mo D · 21-07-2010 4:06pm

An alternative to total pedestrianisation is the shared space concept. It means that cars are allowed, but at a walking pace, and there are no traffic signs or right of way. Drivers know in advance that there will be pedestrians and cyclists surrounding them, and they have to adapt.

Cars have to depend on slow speed and eye contact to navigate around. Dublin drivers are already well used to pedestrians wandering out in front of traffic, so it wouldn't take much getting used to the concept.

It would allow cars to access car parks, and pick up items from shops, but the low speeds and concentration required makes the area more unattractive to through traffic.
It also helps fight anti-social behaviour, as there are generally a few cars at any time of the day or night, that make sure the street is never totally deserted.

Victor · 22-07-2010 3:33am

Cool Mo D wrote: »

It also helps fight anti-social behaviour, as there are generally a few cars at any time of the day or night, that make sure the street is never totally deserted.

Cars do little to fight anti-social behaviour. Indeed it could be said they promote it by separating drivers and their outer environment

Stark · 22-07-2010 4:29am

Cool Mo D wrote: »

An alternative to total pedestrianisation is the shared space concept. It means that cars are allowed, but at a walking pace, and there are no traffic signs or right of way. Drivers know in advance that there will be pedestrians and cyclists surrounding them, and they have to adapt.

Cars have to depend on slow speed and eye contact to navigate around. Dublin drivers are already well used to pedestrians wandering out in front of traffic, so it wouldn't take much getting used to the concept.

It would allow cars to access car parks, and pick up items from shops, but the low speeds and concentration required makes the area more unattractive to through traffic.
It also helps fight anti-social behaviour, as there are generally a few cars at any time of the day or night, that make sure the street is never totally deserted.

They have that in a few places already I think. King Street South is one example that I can think of. Actually I'm not even sure if Grafton Street itself is fully pedestrianized from a legal point of view. I remember cycling round the area before and coming to a sign that said no right turn onto Grafton street but left turn was apparently okay. Also, openstreetmap seems to have traffic direction flows marked for it. Maybe it's to do with still allowing the Gardaí, delivery vehicles and emergency services access. I think it's a matter of de facto pedestrianization where everything about the street it engineered in such a way so that people simply don't think to try and drive down it.

markpb · 22-07-2010 9:22am

Stark wrote: »

They have that in a few places already I think. King Street South is one example that I can think of. Actually I'm not even sure if Grafton Street itself is fully pedestrianized from a legal point of view.

IIRC both streets are pedestrian only but allow deliveries during the 7am to 11am window.

Cool Mo D · 22-07-2010 11:23am

Victor wrote: »

Cars do little to fight anti-social behaviour. Indeed it could be said they promote it by separating drivers and their outer environment

True normally, as cars are paying no attention to anything but the road, and passing at speed, but a couple of cars passing through an area at walking pace every few minutes does help, just as an extra pair of eyes, especially as they have to be alert to those they are sharing the space with.

Empire o de Sun · 22-07-2010 12:12pm

They mention a pedestrian tunnel under Dame street. ehhh don't think so.

What the need is to make dame street a "shared space"

Stark · 22-07-2010 12:19pm

It's not a bad idea. Not enough places to go for a piss in Dublin at night.

Traders want more pedestrianisation off Grafton Street

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