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18-07-2010, 13:35   #16
Sponge Bob
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And now we pay the highest monthly line rental in the whole world for the worst network in Western Europe.
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18-07-2010, 14:01   #17
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Originally Posted by Jayuu View Post
Fixing and replacing outdated pipes would surely not only be a good way of creating employment but also be kinder to the environment.
Do you have any idea of how expensive this would be and how long it would take? Then consider the disruption involved to both water services and streets as they are dug up.

It's a lovely thought but just not practical.
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18-07-2010, 14:29   #18
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Do you have any idea of how expensive this would be and how long it would take? Then consider the disruption involved to both water services and streets as they are dug up.

It's a lovely thought but just not practical.
I'm going to disagree with you on this. Nobody is saying that its going to be easy or even that cheap but in the longer term its probably going to be necessary one way of the other to address this infrastructural deficit.

This is symptomatic of the approach taken to issues in Ireland. We don't try to be pro-active in any way. We just wait for the crisis to happen and then spend more money on trying to catch up, which we never really do. Metering is going to be introduced in the next while which probably will dampen down some of the demand here as people have to pay for their usage but eventually demand will grow again and we should be preparing for that point.

Until recently I worked for a pension management company who specialise in the sale of environmental products. All of the research they and other similar companies have done show that clean water is going to be one of the scarcest resources in the 21st century because of growing demand and potential climate change. Ireland is lucky in this regard because of our location but we can see that even here it only takes one severe bout of extreme weather to thrown our water system into chaos.

Last edited by Jayuu; 18-07-2010 at 14:31. Reason: reformat of paragraphs
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18-07-2010, 15:27   #19
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I'm going to disagree with you on this. Nobody is saying that its going to be easy or even that cheap but in the longer term its probably going to be necessary one way of the other to address this infrastructural deficit.

This is symptomatic of the approach taken to issues in Ireland. We don't try to be pro-active in any way. We just wait for the crisis to happen and then spend more money on trying to catch up, which we never really do. Metering is going to be introduced in the next while which probably will dampen down some of the demand here as people have to pay for their usage but eventually demand will grow again and we should be preparing for that point.
indeed, when it comes down to it, people will happily shell out up €1,000 on TV , mobile and internet connections which are far less important then clean water. The problem is people expect water to be free and available at pressure 24/7. if the government cant figure out how to maintian the system in preference to decentralisation and the other gimmicks, will they please sell the network and let private companies run it.
Unless its cheaper to deliver water by truck (and I doubt it) , the cost of living in an older city is to gradually have the entire infrastructure replaced every 30 to 50 years or so.



Seperate question, in any newer cities (around the world), are the pipes layed in a way that they can be got at without digging up the road. either in tunnels or that the road surface can be lifted in some way?
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18-07-2010, 18:39   #20
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Originally Posted by Jayuu View Post
This is symptomatic of the approach taken to issues in Ireland. We don't try to be pro-active in any way. We just wait for the crisis to happen and then spend more money on trying to catch up, which we never really do. Metering is going to be introduced in the next while which probably will dampen down some of the demand here as people have to pay for their usage but eventually demand will grow again and we should be preparing for that point.
I think its worth noting that Irish people use expensively treated drinking water in their
  • showers
  • radiators for central heating
  • washing their car
  • flushing the toilet
  • hosing their lawn
  • washing machine
  • dishwashers
  • putting out fires(fire brigade)
  • roadsweepers
  • washing windows, moping floors, general washing

I can't but think that it might be cheaper in the LONG run to connect a second pipe to everyone's house, whereby cheap untreated rain water could be used for many of the above services
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18-07-2010, 19:03   #21
bacon&cabbage
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Originally Posted by D'Peoples Voice View Post

I can't but think that it might be cheaper in the LONG run to connect a second pipe to everyone's house, whereby cheap untreated rain water could be used for many of the above services
Kingspan were trying to sell this the last time water shortages were in the media

http://www.kingspanwater.com/domesti...harvesting.htm

Last edited by bacon&cabbage; 18-07-2010 at 19:05.
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18-07-2010, 20:39   #22
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Originally Posted by D'Peoples Voice View Post
I think its worth noting that Irish people use expensively treated drinking water in their
  • showers
  • radiators for central heating
  • washing their car
  • flushing the toilet
  • hosing their lawn
  • washing machine
  • dishwashers
  • putting out fires(fire brigade)
  • roadsweepers
  • washing windows, moping floors, general washing

I can't but think that it might be cheaper in the LONG run to connect a second pipe to everyone's house, whereby cheap untreated rain water could be used for many of the above services
While I think the point about using untreated water is a good one, I'd say that horse has bolted now.

It's definitely madness to use potable water for the toilet.

However, I'd be wary of using untreated water for showering or washing dishes, and I'd imagine the amount of water used in radiators each year per household is so small as to be pointless.
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19-07-2010, 09:27   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Peoples Voice View Post
I think its worth noting that Irish people use expensively treated drinking water in their
  • showers
  • radiators for central heating
  • washing their car
  • flushing the toilet
  • hosing their lawn
  • washing machine
  • dishwashers
  • putting out fires(fire brigade)
  • roadsweepers
  • washing windows, moping floors, general washing

I can't but think that it might be cheaper in the LONG run to connect a second pipe to everyone's house, whereby cheap untreated rain water could be used for many of the above services
Agree with you about this, I think we should be using more rainwater harvesting systems in this country, since in normal years we have more than enough.
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19-07-2010, 09:49   #24
Bluetonic
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I'm going to disagree with you on this. Nobody is saying that its going to be easy or even that cheap but in the longer term its probably going to be necessary one way of the other to address this infrastructural deficit.
Whats the cost of fixing the leaks along with the cost of disruption?

Would you be happy to pay this via smart water metering and charges on your domestic tap?
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21-07-2010, 00:33   #25
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This has gone a bit further than I thought

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...275074682.html

Quote:
A 500-ACRE bog in Co Offaly has been chosen as the proposed site for an “eco water park and reservoir” as part of Dublin City Council’s plan to pump water from the river Shannon.


The council is proposing a €540 million, Government-funded project which would supply 350 million litres of water a day to the Dublin region. The council says the project would also supply water to residents and businesses in Meath, Wicklow, Kildare, Offaly and Westmeath.
So it is a Boyne and Liffey catchment supply booster, I thought so.

The article then descents into typical green spin doctor eco bullmanure

Quote:
The council says the project would also supply water to residents and businesses in Meath, Wicklow, Kildare, Offaly and Westmeath. In a statement yesterday, the council said the project would create an “innovative water based eco-park with fishing, boating, cycling, water and leisure sports” in the midlands It said 1,000 construction jobs would be created alongside an unspecified number of long-term tourism and recreation jobs in the midlands.

The only thing missing is water bicycles for Gormley and Ryan Once the green eco bollix has been regurgitated we get back to some facts.


Quote:
Consultants for the council, RPS and Veolia Water, envisage the water being taken from the Shannon at Lough Derg during periods of flood and high flows only The water would be stored at the new “eco park” at Garryhinch Bog, from where it could be pumped to Dublin or even back to the Shannon to be used during periods of low flows, according to the consultants.

It is not an eco park you green morons, it is a reservoir. It will be a few miles north of Mountmellick just inside Offaly. You can see the proposed location as a sizeable brown stain HERE on Google Maps , around 4 miles west of Portarlington.

Mind you I don't think this can be very deep somehow. 500 acres times a feasible 6 metres deep is around 12m cubic metres. That is near enough what the London Underground alone pumps out of its network every year to stop it from flooding 350m litres times 365 days is around 12.8m cubic metres . Near enough.

I shall be along for the bog cotton planting any day you green fuks

Last edited by Sponge Bob; 21-07-2010 at 00:36.
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21-07-2010, 00:33   #26
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I see Bord na Mona want to build a reservoir between Mountmellick and Portarlington to hold water pumped out of the Shannon during flood periods for storage and eventual use in the midlands and Dublin regions, it'll also be, according to them, a significant leisure amenity for the area.

The flyer is here
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21-07-2010, 00:46   #27
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There is an abandoned branch of the Grand Canal just south of the reservoir that once ran from Mountmellick to Monasterevin.
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21-07-2010, 01:40   #28
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One issue that hasn't really been raised here is that abstracting water from the River Shannon to satisfy Dublin's thirst could seriously affect navigation levels on the Shannon, especially along the shallow stretches of the river between Roosky and Lough Ree.

Just the past May and early June, water levels were so low that many cruisers ran aground on the river, especially in the Lough Forbes area.


The IWAI (Inland Waterways Association of Ireland) and many tourist and boating/fishing groups along the Shannon are very concerned about the water proposals.

Last edited by JupiterKid; 21-07-2010 at 02:06.
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21-07-2010, 13:54   #29
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One issue that hasn't really been raised here is that abstracting water from the River Shannon to satisfy Dublin's thirst could seriously affect navigation levels on the Shannon, especially along the shallow stretches of the river between Roosky and Lough Ree.

Just the past May and early June, water levels were so low that many cruisers ran aground on the river, especially in the Lough Forbes area.


The IWAI (Inland Waterways Association of Ireland) and many tourist and boating/fishing groups along the Shannon are very concerned about the water proposals.
The proposal is to take the water from Lough Derg, which is down stream of the areas you are talking about so am I right in thinking it wouldnt effect them?
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21-07-2010, 13:59   #30
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The proposal is to take the water from Lough Derg, which is down stream of the areas you are talking about so am I right in thinking it wouldnt effect them?
And to take it only when the river is in flood and store it in the proposed reservoir at Garryhinch.
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