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DTT tests from Tonabrucky nr. Galway City

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  • 29-05-2010 6:54pm
    #1
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭


    DTT tests from Tonabrucky nr. Galway City are now on air on Channel 23 which I can receive 16 miles north of the city.

    Unfortunately, the Muxes from Tonabrucky are co channel with analogue from Castlebar and as quite a number of people use Cbar analogue from Castlegar onwards out the Tuam road , up into Tuam also this is causing their TG4 to become unwatchable. So much for frequency planning!

    This Tx at Tonabrucky is co sited with the UPC main MMDS tx for city dwellers whose areas arent cabled and the for the whole of Co. Galway.


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    #2
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    16 miles is damn good, it ain't meant to be very high power that one.


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    #3
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    16 miles is damn good, it ain't meant to be very high power that one.

    I have line of sight to the mast, can see red light on top at night. MMDS mast is very tall. Yes, its not on full power yet Id say, good on a crappy group A ten element contract.


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    #4
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    Where exactly is the transmitter.

    I'm getting faint signals from a home-made UHF grid type aerial with booster attached.

    Horizontal or vertical?


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    #5
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    Where exactly is the transmitter.
    Here above Bushypark

    http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=53.291372&lon=-9.111206&zoom=16

    It is only supposed to be a 1kw infill transmitter where Maghera is 150kw...but it may have been relocated from the Hynes Building in town which is where the Galway transmitter was supposed to go originally and not in Tonabrocky .....IIRC that is.

    Channel 23 is Band A and everybody in Galway has a UHF Band B/C aerial if they have a UHF aerial. You need a Band A aerial and/or an amp that will amplify Band A ( not all will)

    so called "Wideband" aerials are known to be crap in Band A so don't try that.

    Could someone email rtenl.ie for a channel plan and coverage map for Tonabrocky so you know where it should work before you go out buying aerials for it. Also get the same data for the Loughrea transmitter that is due to go live over the summer. You may be sure they will not clash with Maghera :)


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    #6
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    Found it using OSI, google and bing maps.
    Now I see you've posted a link to it, it hardly seems worth the effort, but I had my fun :pac:

    http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=swfp7dg76ky6&scene=24073571&lvl=1&sty=b


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    #7
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    UHF aerials have a little bit of coloured plastic on them. They should be as follows according to this excellent page on aerials and tv .

    wp3aa7b147.jpg

    If the piece of coloured plastic is green ( most common in Galway) then it is the wrong UHF aerial for channel 23 from Tonabrocky unless you live right beside it. You will need the red coloured one.

    The Hirschmann aerial mentioned in this informative thread is apparently an excellent Group A aerial but first we need to find out what the Loughrea and Tonabrocky coverages and channels will be from RTENL.


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    #8
    Mayo Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    Wonder why they have switched on Tonabrucky on Ch 23 again when it appeared to cause alot of interference to C'bar analogue in late March. See "Castlebar reduced power" thread of that time.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055867998

    In post #11 of that thread (Galway's) an RTE engineer seems to admit it's a problem! If it stays on ch 23 some sort of nulling in the C'bar direction will be needed.


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    #9
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    Just tried out an indoor amplified aerial I got in Lidl a few weeks ago and it's receiving it fine, living near Ballybrit industrial estate.


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    #10
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Here above Bushypark

    http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=53.291372&lon=-9.111206&zoom=16

    It is only supposed to be a 1kw infill transmitter where Maghera is 150kw...but it may have been relocated from the Hynes Building in town which is where the Galway transmitter was supposed to go originally and not in Tonabrocky .....IIRC that is.

    Channel 23 is Band A and everybody in Galway has a UHF Band B/C aerial if they have a UHF aerial. You need a Band A aerial and/or an amp that will amplify Band A ( not all will)

    so called "Wideband" aerials are known to be crap in Band A so don't try that.

    Could someone email rtenl.ie for a channel plan and coverage map for Tonabrocky so you know where it should work before you go out buying aerials for it. Also get the same data for the Loughrea transmitter that is due to go live over the summer. You may be sure they will not clash with Maghera :)


    Anyone receiving from Maghera in Galway will have a group C/D aerial for TV 3 and TG4. As said in my earlier post, a good number receive from Castlebar along the Tuam road where the Maghera signals esp RTEs 1 and 2 on Band 3 are severely attenuated by the hill at Ballybrit. These are using UHF group A aerials and will be/are being affected by the co channel DTT from Tonabrucky (as I am on Ch23 TG 4 some 18-20 miles north of Tonabursy A serious null to the north will be needed until ASO.


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    #11
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    UHF aerials have a little bit of coloured plastic on them. They should be as follows according to this excellent page on aerials and tv .

    wp3aa7b147.jpg

    If the piece of coloured plastic is green ( most common in Galway) then it is the wrong UHF aerial for channel 23 from Tonabrocky unless you live right beside it. You will need the red coloured one.

    The Hirschmann aerial mentioned in this informative thread is apparently an excellent Group A aerial but first we need to find out what the Loughrea and Tonabrocky coverages and channels will be from RTENL.

    DO NOT use the Hirschmann FESA group aerial for IRISH DTT from a strong local Tx - it is total overkill and completely unnecessary give the high DTT powers that will be radiated from main Tx stations.


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    #12
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Galway wrote: »
    DO NOT use the Hirschmann FESA group aerial for IRISH DTT from a strong local Tx -

    It may not work In Galway City like you said but it my work further out where Maghera does not ....along the N59 towards Clifden for example. You could shield a Hirschmann with the house ...put it low on the south side facing Galway

    Castlebar will not get DTT for years , Tonabrocky and Loughrea will, they were tendered last year ...see

    This is the batch being done in 2010

    Arklow, Co. Wicklow
    Suir Valley, , Co Kilkenny
    Forth Mountain, Co. Wexford
    Gallows Hill, Co. Waterford
    Drogheda (Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital), Co. Louth
    Tonabrocky, Co. Galway
    Tipperary, Co. Tipperary
    Killarney, Co. Kerry
    Navan, Co. Meath
    Skerries, Co Dublin
    Loughrea, Co. Galway
    Árainn Mhór, Co. Donegal
    Letterkenny, Co. Donegal

    I found the specs Loughrea will be group B not group A

    TONABROCKY
    Suggested Antenna/Configuration2H x 4R with 4:4:1:1 splitGain10dBPolarizationVHRPazimuth (deg)0102030405060708090100110120130140150160170180190200210220230240250260270280290300310320330340350360
    relative gain (dB)0000000000000000000000000000000000000VRP tilt (
    deg)0Face allignment130, 220, 310, 40
    Height35m
    DTT Channels23 26 29 33
    Analogue ChannelsNone

    LOUGHREA
    Suggested Antenna/Configuration2R x 2H Gain11dBPolarizationVHRPazimuth (deg)0102030405060708090100110120130140150160170180190200210220230240250260270280290300310320330340350360relative gain (
    dB)00-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-200000000000000000000000VRP tilt (
    deg)0.5
    Height15mPanels facing at 70deg &
    230deg
    DTT Channels37 39 42 45
    Analogue ChannelsNone


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    #13
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    What is the point of this TX

    Surely any areas served by it already has a perfectly usable signal from Maghera


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    #14
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The point was to serve 20000 people in the city centre with rabbits ears, it was planned at 250w ( 0.25kw) and to serve about 20000 people. Looks like it will cover up to 100,000


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    #15
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    It may not work In Galway City like you said but it my work further out where Maghera does not ....along the N59 towards Clifden for example. You could shield a Hirschmann with the house ...put it low on the south side facing Galway

    A Hirschmann FESA is unneccesary for DTT as Tonabrucky isnt on full power yet. The Maghera DTT on ch 48 is reaching further than the Band 3 and UHF analolgue services.
    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Castlebar will not get DTT for years , Tonabrocky and Loughrea will, they were tendered last year ...see

    Maghera DTT is receivable in Castlebar as is Truskmore DTT on CH 53. The new Truskmore mast is built and will provide better coverage from this TX. That is maybe why Cbar isnt happening yet.
    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    This is the batch being done in 2010

    Arklow, Co. Wicklow
    Suir Valley, , Co Kilkenny
    Forth Mountain, Co. Wexford
    Gallows Hill, Co. Waterford
    Drogheda (Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital), Co. Louth
    Tonabrocky, Co. Galway
    Tipperary, Co. Tipperary
    Killarney, Co. Kerry
    Navan, Co. Meath
    Skerries, Co Dublin
    Loughrea, Co. Galway
    Árainn Mhór, Co. Donegal
    Letterkenny, Co. Donegal

    I found the specs Loughrea will be group B not group A.

    The Loughrea DTT channels are adjacent to the Cairn Hill DTT and DTT Woodcock Hill, Limerick ones and co channel with Analogue from Woodcock Hill. Power will be low I guess to avoid intereference. I suspect the tx site will be at Derrybrien where i102-104 FM have a tx.
    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    TONABROCKY[/B]
    Suggested Antenna/Configuration2H x 4R with 4:4:1:1 splitGain10dBPolarizationVHRPazimuth (deg)0102030405060708090100110120130140150160170180190200210220230240250260270280290300310320330340350360
    relative gain (dB)0000000000000000000000000000000000000VRP tilt (
    deg)0Face allignment130, 220, 310, 40
    Height35m
    DTT Channels23 26 29 33
    Analogue ChannelsNone

    LOUGHREA
    Suggested Antenna/Configuration2R x 2H Gain11dBPolarizationVHRPazimuth (deg)0102030405060708090100110120130140150160170180190200210220230240250260270280290300310320330340350360relative gain (
    dB)00-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-20-200000000000000000000000VRP tilt (
    deg)0.5
    Height15mPanels facing at 70deg &
    230deg
    DTT Channels37 39 42 45
    Analogue ChannelsNone

    ....


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    #16
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    What is the point of this TX

    Surely any areas served by it already has a perfectly usable signal from Maghera

    I agree seems like a waste of money.


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    #17
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The point was to serve 20000 ???people in the city centre with rabbits ears,

    So indulging people who cant be bothered to get a proper aerial is a well justified use of public funds, energy supplies, land and broadcast spectrum ?


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    #18
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    So indulging people who cant be bothered to get a proper aerial is a well justified use of public funds, energy supplies, land and broadcast spectrum ?

    Well in fairness a lot of people rent and cannot put up a "proper" aerial.

    This transmitter serves me very well, I can get it indoors with an amplified set top aerial.

    Would you prefer if only a handful of transmitters existed and the entire population had to install high gain UHF aerials mounted on 10 meter poles with masthead amps for good measure?

    What exactly is a "proper" aerial anyway?


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    #19
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    But there are people who are shielded from Maghera north of Galway and the fact is that the list of transmitters I published is the list that is likely to be done. RTE ran out of €€s before they ordered any more gear....they have not tendered for any DTT TX gear since early 2009. Loughrea was supposed to be done same timescale as Casla and Clifden in 2011 ( both more powerful but serving a smaller population each) and was brought forward to be done around the same time as Galway.

    I would not be surprised if Casla and Clifden are still running analogue in 2015 :(


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    #20
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    Well in fairness a lot of people rent and cannot put up a "proper" aerial.

    Perhaps it should be part of the minimum requirements for multi dwelling unite that such a thing be provided in this day and age ?

    In the case of single dwelling units perhaps its something that more people should be asking about before signing a lease ?

    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    What exactly is a "proper" aerial anyway?
    Sufficent to recieve a signal of 60dBuV/m with EBU grade 4 or 5 reception at a height of 10 metres above the ground Is considered the standard in Ireland IIRC


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    #21
    Mayo Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Castlebar will not get DTT for years , Tonabrocky

    ???????

    Castlebar is due to be up and running by 31st October 2010, according to Eamon Ryan in the Dail on 18th May. Tonabrucky is in that list too.

    See: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65976734&postcount=1461


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    #22
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    Well in fairness a lot of people rent and cannot put up a "proper" aerial.

    This transmitter serves me very well, I can get it indoors with an amplified set top aerial.

    Would you prefer if only a handful of transmitters existed and the entire population had to install high gain UHF aerials mounted on 10 meter poles with masthead amps for good measure?

    What exactly is a "proper" aerial anyway?

    Indoor reception is not feasible in Galway on analogue (very snowy pictures and two types of aerial needed - rabbits ears + UHF loop), so why is there a need to make indoor DTT reception available?


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    #23
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Indoor reception is designed for apartments and more especially those who don't have or want sky or cable but are willing to contribute for psb tv via the license fee.
    DTT for the first time makes this more possible than ever.


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    #24
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    ???????

    Castlebar is due to be up and running by 31st October 2010, according to Eamon Ryan in the Dail on 18th May. Tonabrucky is in that list too.

    See: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65976734&postcount=1461

    How very odd. Other than the main transmitters and Greystones/Dungarvan only one other tender was ever sent out for TX gear , this one.

    It looks like RTE sent the gear meant for Letterkenny Arranmore Loughrea and Skerries to Castlebar Knockmoyle Fermoy and Mitchelstown instead. :D

    They have ordered no TX gear since that lot listed in the link a year ago.


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    #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Why should they buy more anyway?

    Haven't they a surplus of tx equipment ready for dispersal to every population 5 person or more,currently dtt free nook and cranny in the country now due to the failure of the commercial mux sell off :D


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    #26
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Indoor reception is designed for apartments and more especially those who don't have or want sky or cable but are willing to contribute for psb tv via the license fee. DTT for the first time makes this more possible than ever.

    How did apartment residents get their TV up to now ?


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    snowy indoor aerial or cable/sky.
    Some would be lucky enough to have access to a communal roof aerial
    They are however as entitled to proper psb reception like any other license payer.


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    #28
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    How did apartment residents get their TV up to now ?

    They didn't, if NTL or UPC wasn't an option/cheap enough for them. I know that I wouldn't manange anything like decent RTÉ reception while I've lived in Dublin were it not for high-power DTT from Three Rock.


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    #29
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    How did apartment residents get their TV up to now ?

    Cable


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    #30
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    Deleted User wrote: »
    snowy indoor aerial or cable/sky.
    Some would be lucky enough to have access to a communal roof aerial
    They are however as entitled to proper psb reception like any other license payer.

    So why is 'indoor reception' now an issue with the advent of DTT?? So are non city residents blocked by high mountains or in remote areas of the country or apt dwellers in smaller towns also 'entitled to proper PSB reception like any other license [sic] payer'. I cant see RTÉNL erecting masts for valley communities or anyone else that cant get indoor reception. This is a totally spurious argument. There is NO NEED for a in fill Tx in Galway city given the high penetration of cable and where areas arent cabled MMDS. If the Irish terrestrials ever go free to air on satellite, this will mean wasteful duplication. The money could be better spent on providing a DTT service to those areas which have a real need. Again its a city versus rural bias.


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Galway wrote: »
    So why is 'indoor reception' now an issue with the advent of DTT?? So are non city residents blocked by high mountains or in remote areas of the country or apt dwellers in smaller towns also 'entitled to proper PSB reception like any other license [sic] payer'. I cant see RTÉNL erecting masts for valley communities or anyone else that cant get indoor reception. This is a totally spurious argument. There is NO NEED for a in fill Tx in Galway city given the high penetration of cable and where areas arent cabled MMDS. If the Irish terrestrials ever go free to air on satellite, this will mean wasteful duplication. The money could be better spent on providing a DTT service to those areas which have a real need. Again its a city versus rural bias.
    I'd essentially agree with you.
    But RTE wouldn't.


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