New DCC (Dublin City Centre) 30kph limit

Cookie_Monster · 29-01-2010 08:55AM #1

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/absurd-speed-limit-plan-attacked-2038100.html

Looks like things will soon be crazy. Can you just imagine it now?

Taken from Motors, I'm surprised it hasn't come up here yet!

arybvtcw0eolkf · 29-01-2010 09:06AM

Its like a bad joke.

More than once I've tried driving at 30kph and my car is a nightmare @ that speed, why?... Because the auto gearbox is undecided about 2nd & 3rd gear so it jumps between both.

If AGS enforce this law its gonna be like shooting fish in a barrel with taxi's, buses, cyclists, private motorists getting it in the neck, and I'd even guess than a good skateboarder would break this speed limit

JimsAlterEgo · 29-01-2010 09:27AM

a joke, even 40 would be better. You get up to 40 without even noticing it.

whosedaddy? · 29-01-2010 09:51AM

It's an Irish solution to an Irish problem...

Sure its the car/truck/bus driver that walks away less injured, but is it always them causing the accident? I can't see any pedetrian / cyclist programme to enhance their traffic behaviour, contributing to minimising the numbers of accident.

Anecdotal evidence... I was cycling down O'Connell street at 7pm the other day and had to stop at lights at the bridge... traffic on the north quays was heavy enough - all lanes had cars on them.
While waiting, I was overtaken my cyclist (whose aggressive cycling down O'C street drew my attention earlier) and, without breaking, he contiued into the junction and weaved his way through the crossing quay's traffic...
I have no idea how he survived this without being hit...
The other cycists waiting at the light were just left speechless....
But if he had been hit, I'm sure it would be in the statistics why to reduce car traffic speeds in Dublin...

loyatemu · 29-01-2010 10:38AM

"The 30kph limit will apply 24 hours a day, regardless of traffic volumes or the size and capacity of roads in the area."

do speed limits not always apply 24 hrs a day? the only place in Ireland I know of with variable limits is the port tunnel.

Dublin City Council do not want private motorists driving through the city centre, this is just part of that strategy.

WindSock · 29-01-2010 10:46AM

I drive through the city in the evenings after college, I am tired and I just want to get home. (not too tired to drive though...)

The city is near empty at that time. This is just silly. Even a chap from the AA said it was a load of codswallop, and it will only frustrate drivers further.

Cookie_Monster · 29-01-2010 10:50AM

loyatemu wrote: »

do speed limits not always apply 24 hrs a day? the only place in Ireland I know of with variable limits is the port tunnel.

The only other example I can think of remotely similar is the new N11 limits from Foxrock to Loughlistown. Bus lane is 60, 2 other lanes 80. A bit odd but not variable

Dun Laoghaire now has 30 kph limits for most of the town, totally ignored so it is.

markpb · 29-01-2010 11:27AM

WindSock wrote: »

Even a chap from the AA said it was a load of codswallop

Aye. The AA are well known for representing pedestrians

WindSock · 29-01-2010 11:38AM

Aren't we all pedestrians?

shotamoose · 29-01-2010 11:45AM

WindSock wrote: »

Aren't we all pedestrians?

Exactly why we need low speed limits in dense city centre areas.

foggy_lad · 29-01-2010 11:46AM

i think it is a great idea and should be extended to a much larger area of the city centre, most cars and vans are travelling too fast around the city streets and drivers rarely look out for cyclists pedestrians or anything else as they are either too busy working or on the way to work or home and are half asleep this will at least give cyclists and pedestrians a better chance of survival in the event of a collision.

AlekSmart · 29-01-2010 12:02PM

It`s yet another example of a country which has lost all semblance of common sense and the ability to do joined-up thinking.

Dublin City Council,if it were to bother its corporate self could within seconds discover many schemes and innovations deserving of it`s attention in the City Centre.

This crackpottery is most definitely not one.

Ireland has for some time now been an avid follower of the UK principle of legislating for EVERY possible aspect of life.
This in turn leads to a populace which becomes tired,lazy and unable to support even the most basic principles of self existance.

I caught the tail-end of some high-ranking political figure speaking on a radio chat-show yesterday and heard him wax lyrical about Heidlberg in Germany,which apparently has proven the efficacy of this 30Kph limit.....

The presenter however,failed to enquire from our Political God as to whether Heidlberg also posessed functional mains water supplies.......

Morlar · 29-01-2010 12:09PM

This is just all part of the public sector go-slow

Seriously though this is nuts. They really seem to be getting further and further away from reality. If I had to guess I would say green party lefty 'wooden bicycle' owning hippies in control over there

29-01-2010 12:19PM

So its a bad idea thats what everyone says, so what is an acceptable speed limit for driving in built up areas such as through cities?

shotamoose · 29-01-2010 12:22PM

Look, the reason why DCC are doing this is because 30km/h speed limits in crowded urban areas are proven to save lives. If you are more worried about a few minutes being added to your journey then you really need to get a sense of perspective.

Boom_Bap · 29-01-2010 12:25PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

I caught the tail-end of some high-ranking political figure speaking on a radio chat-show yesterday and heard him wax lyrical about Heidlberg in Germany,which apparently has proven the efficacy of this 30Kph limit.....

It works well there because nobody drives through Heidleberg. Also most of the streets are cobbled so driving fasster than 30 would be a rough ride.

29-01-2010 12:25PM

shotamouse wrote: »

Look, the reason why DCC are doing this is because 30km/h speed limits in crowded urban areas are proven to save lives. If you are more worried about a few minutes being added to your journey then you really need to get a sense of perspective.

Exactly for example

Hull council, which introduced a 20 mph limit in residential areas, saw a 74% reduction in crashes involving child pedestrians and a 69% reduction in child cycle collisions in the three years since the zones' introduction, compared with the three years before the limit changed. Overall, there has been a 90% reduction in serious and fatal injuries, and a 60% overall decrease of all casualties.

Now isn't saving children more important than rushing home to catch that episode of corination street

29-01-2010 12:27PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

It works well there because nobody drives through Heidleberg. Also most of the streets are cobbled so driving fasster than 30 would be a rough ride.

right nobody goes through heildberg, yeah ok so how about London a lot of people go through there right?

A Transport for London (TfL) review in 2003 of 20 mph zones in London boroughs said that installation of these reduced road user casualties within the zones by 45% and fatal or serious casualties (KSI) by about 57%. The KSI rate for children fell by 60% .

Heroditas · 29-01-2010 12:30PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

i think it is a great idea and should be extended to a much larger area of the city centre, most cars and vans are travelling too fast around the city streets and drivers rarely look out for cyclists pedestrians or anything else as they are either too busy working or on the way to work or home and are half asleep this will at least give cyclists and pedestrians a better chance of survival in the event of a collision.

Why don't the authorities do something about jaywalking?
It's always the driver's fault, never the poor drunken/stupid/mobile phone glued to ear pedestrian who meanders out onto the road and then crosses a few lanes diagonally :rolleyes:

Boom_Bap · 29-01-2010 12:37PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

right nobody goes through heildberg, yeah ok so how about London a lot of people go through there right?

i'm not saying it's a good or bad idea.....just trying to make a point that it's not a good comparison to be used.
Your London comparison is a much more valid example.

29-01-2010 12:46PM

Heroditas wrote: »

Why don't the authorities do something about jaywalking?
It's always the driver's fault, never the poor drunken/stupid/mobile phone glued to ear pedestrian who meanders out onto the road and then crosses a few lanes diagonally :rolleyes:

They should also fix cameras to every traffic light and catch all drivers who speed through orange or red lights

29-01-2010 12:48PM

Here is a graph that shows how increases in speed relate to increases in injuries or deaths in road crashes.

Its a bit small but if you look at it you see that the increase from 30kph by just 5 kilometres an hours casues an increase of 5% in the deaths of pedestrians involved in motor accidents and then from 35kph to 40 kph is a further 10% increase in the case of accidents of the pedestrian dying.

I dont see how trying to save peoples lives is in any way a bad thing there isn't a survey or study in the world that can agree wiht higher speeds than 30kph within built up areas especially cities.

Cookie_Monster · 29-01-2010 12:48PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

They should also fix cameras to every traffic light and catch all drivers who speed through orange or red lights

nothing wrong with driving through an orange light

29-01-2010 12:50PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

nothing wrong with driving through an orange light

There is in increasing speed to get through it.

Cookie_Monster · 29-01-2010 12:52PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

There is in increasing speed to get through it.

if you can't stop before the line when the light is orange you may as well go faster to clear the junction as fast as possible

29-01-2010 12:56PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if you can't stop before the line when the light is orange you may as well go faster to clear the junction as fast as possible

Indeed. However speeding through orange lights and jaywalkign aren't really the topic under discussion here. This thread was about DCC's 30 Kph speed limit wasn't it?

Cookie_Monster · 29-01-2010 01:01PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Indeed. However speeding through orange lights and jaywalkign aren't really the topic under discussion here. This thread was about DCC's 30 Kph speed limit wasn't it?

true.

looking at the area covered i really don't see how they can manage or enforce this at all.

There must be someone in the DCC having a bet to see who can get away with implementing the most stupid policy

29-01-2010 01:07PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

true.

looking at the area covered i really don't see how they can manage or enforce this at all.

There must be someone in the DCC having a bet to see who can get away with implementing the most stupid policy

I have only looked at the map now.

To be honest I dont really see what the issue is the areas they are changing should not have a massive effect on traffic within the city.

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/RoadSafety/Documents/3369%20_04%20Sept%2009%20City%20Centre%2030%20kph%20zone.pdf
(Link added to pdf of the map from DCC)

I would like to see the results of any survey done on exisiting average speeds on these roads ( i dont think it will be that much in excess of 30 kph now). The areas where this speed limit will apply are in the very centre of the city and I would agree with DCC that exceeding 30kph within these areas is unreasonable and dangerous to other road users especially pedestrians.

seamus · 29-01-2010 01:08PM

It's not the best thought out plan in the world. Though I can't see this having any major effect.

The attached is the rough area of the limit, according to that article.

Within these roads, it's rare that you'll get up past 30kph at the following times:

8am - 2pm, Mon - Fri
4pm - 7pm, Mon - Fri
12pm - 4pm, Sat & Sun
8pm - 10pm, Fri & Sat
12am - 3am, Sat & Sun

Which basically means that for most people, a 30kph limit will make little difference.

The overall aim here is to remove the immediate city centre (the bit that was the original Dublin way back in Viking times) as an attractive thoroughfare for traffic in the city. To encourage people onto the circular routes and the M50. Ideally if you're travelling within these boundaries, it's because you're going shopping or similar.

And this is only going to get worse. We'll see O'Connell street becoming completely closed off for any traffic except busses and taxis soon enough and I wouldn't be surprised if they made it extremely difficult (through bus lanes and one-way streets) for people to get to O'Connell bridge.

Cookie_Monster · 29-01-2010 01:12PM

seamus wrote: »

The overall aim here is to remove the immediate city centre (the bit that was the original Dublin way back in Viking times) as an attractive thoroughfare for traffic in the city. To encourage people onto the circular routes and the M50. Ideally if you're travelling within these boundaries, it's because you're going shopping or similar.

If that the case why couldn't they have waited till the M50 is actually finished to 3 lane the whole length?

(apart from the fact the M50 will probably never be finished :P)

Zubeneschamali · 29-01-2010 02:20PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Look, if cars are limited to 0 kph, there'd be no fatalities at all!

Ban cars, think of the children!

New DCC (Dublin City Centre) 30kph limit

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