Article: Older cars could face annual NCT test

Seth Brundle · 16-12-2009 9:13am #1

Older cars could face annual NCT test

16/12/2009 - 08:13:57

If your car is 10 years old or more, you could face having to do an NCT every year.

It has been reported a raft of changes to the National Car Testing system are being proposed, but there is no word on when they could take effect.

The Transport Minister is to consider draft legislation on the changes in the coming weeks.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/text/ireland/eymhideyeymh/

I wonder how old is "older"!
SIMI must be delighted with themselves these days.

Seth Brundle · 16-12-2009 9:24am

I'm getting even more dense in my old age!

PaddyFagan · 16-12-2009 9:37am

It's in the Times motoring section today, with a suggestion that it's already approved and will kick in January. I have to say I'm inclide to suspect that it's part of the governments plan to help the garages by making the scrapage scheme look more attractive.

Paddy

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2009/1216/1224260753473.html

CARS OVER 10 years old will have to be tested every year under changes to the National Car Test approved by the Minister for Transport. Noel Dempsey has also effectively banned excessively tinted car windows and noisy exhausts under the changes due to come into effect in January.

langdang · 16-12-2009 9:44am

Having a car in this category, I can play devil's advocate to the gumment here.

A large percentage of people wouldn't even notice one wheel hanging off until it was pointed out to them. With a car that old they have decided that it's not worth maintaining/check various things. These people need to be forced to keep their vehicles safe(r).

Then again, there's practically minded people with perfectly safe serviceable vehicles, that will just be inconvenienced by this.
What I'm worried about here is that the Glasrai will tighten up emissions specs.
I have no problem with being pulled up on a safety aspect, but if stricter emissions force me or others out of a 10yr+ car with multiple airbags ABS etc, and into poverty spec 03 s**tbox with zero safety features??? with all due respect, eff you na Glasrai, eff you

Mr. Presentable · 16-12-2009 9:46am

They cannot surely apply the same criteria to a car 50 years old that they do to a four year old one. Can they? That'd put everything more than, say, 20 years old off the road permanently.

seamus · 16-12-2009 9:48am

:rolleyes:

More pocket-lining for the friends of the government in the motor industry. So because they can see now that their "incentive" is nothing but a whole pile of crap, they're going to push people with otherwise perfectly safe and functional vehicles into debt in order to prop up car sales.

Even the AA has said that this is completely unnecessary.

Seth Brundle · 16-12-2009 9:49am

nipplenuts wrote: »

They cannot surely apply the same criteria to a car 50 years old that they do to a four year old one. Can they? That'd put everything more than, say, 20 years old off the road permanently.

Thats the idea presumably! This will suit the scrappage (as mentioned) and also the Greens

R.O.R · 16-12-2009 9:51am

Not sure about the rest of Europe, but for as long as I remember, in the UK all cars over 3 years old are subject to the MOT every year.

It's not such a big deal tbh.

Mr. Presentable · 16-12-2009 9:53am

The Greens. It was a black, black day those looneys got into power. The country is buggered because of them.

peasant · 16-12-2009 9:55am

nipplenuts wrote: »

They cannot surely apply the same criteria to a car 50 years old that they do to a four year old one. Can they? That'd put everything more than, say, 20 years old off the road permanently.

You can only ever test a car to the criteria that applied when it was made.
If it still runs within the paramters that applied when it left the factory, everything should be ok.

Slidey · 16-12-2009 9:58am

This is the way it has been with commercials.

You would be very surprised at the number of year old vans/jeeps that fail their first test.

They often come back a year later and fail it again. I would have no problem with having the test an annual thing.

I would have 2 stipulations though.

*Tests should be available within a week or 2 of booking.

*Test should run 12 months from the day of testing not the registration date. That is a pure bullschit carry on.

kdevitt · 16-12-2009 9:59am

nipplenuts wrote: »

They cannot surely apply the same criteria to a car 50 years old that they do to a four year old one. Can they? That'd put everything more than, say, 20 years old off the road permanently.

Vintage vehicles (cars over 30 years old) are NCT exempt, so this won't happen. Pre 93 cars already have different emission standards due to not needing a cat.

Completely cynical move to get people to scrap their cars imo!

peasant · 16-12-2009 10:03am

kdevitt wrote: »

Vintage vehicles (cars over 30 years old) are NCT exempt, so this won't happen.

Who's to say that that won't change?
Looking at some of the "classics" on the road, it mightn't be a bad idea either

Thoie · 16-12-2009 10:06am

R.O.R wrote: »

Not sure about the rest of Europe, but for as long as I remember, in the UK all cars over 3 years old are subject to the MOT every year.

It's not such a big deal tbh.

I think it's not as big a deal in the UK because as I understand it you can get it done in your local garage at any time - you don't have to wait for appointments and travel to a limited number of centers.

cantdecide · 16-12-2009 10:07am

kdevitt wrote: »

Completely cynical move to get people to scrap their cars imo!

gan dabht

Having said that, it may encourage people to fix their cars rather than just sitting waiting for them to die. It's harder to scrap a roadworthy car that's been given some maintenance every year.

kodute · 16-12-2009 10:10am

Don't really have a problem with this... My car will soon be 11 years motoring and only ever failed due to a minor thing.

Probably a good thing for car sales too. People tend to be nervous buying a car almost out of NCT 2 years, when it comes around more often they may be a bit more assuaged.

voxpop · 16-12-2009 10:12am

Thoie wrote: »

I think it's not as big a deal in the UK because as I understand it you can get it done in your local garage at any time - you don't have to wait for appointments and travel to a limited number of centers.

No doubt the current crowd will do everything backwards and bring in a yearly NCT before creating any new test centres, causing the whole system to clog up.

kdevitt · 16-12-2009 10:13am

peasant wrote: »

Who's to say that that won't change?

IrishTimes - "But the authority has not suggested that vintage cars aged over 30 years should be included in the testing regime." So doesn't look like it'll change in the near future.

peasant wrote: »

Looking at some of the "classics" on the road, it mightn't be a bad idea either

Can't really disagree - but there are going to be practicality issues with certain cars - can't imagine a Model T Ford passing the test with flying colours. Maybe a basic roadworthyness test would be more appropriate. Think I'm getting slightly off the point though.

-maccer- · 16-12-2009 10:14am

By testing cars yearly the government will be doubling the number of nct tests required in the country. Can it even cope with this capacity? Can see it already 4 to 6 month waiting lists for nct tests. Chaos.

More inconvenience and unessesary expense on the motorist in my opinion. I don't know the stats but from my experiences and my friends with cars over 10 years old failing the nct is quite common. Wouldn't be surprised to end up in a situation where you end up down the nct centre 4 times in two years.....

kdevitt · 16-12-2009 10:16am

cantdecide wrote: »

gan dabht

Having said that, it may encourage people to fix their cars rather than just sitting waiting for them to die. It's harder to scrap a roadworthy car that's been given some maintenance every year.

Yes - but if you have a 9 year old car which will soon require annual inspections, but currently has bi-annual, it may encourage the easily scared into sending the car to the big scrap heap in the sky.

Its a shame to see the cars that end up getting destroyed.

peasant · 16-12-2009 10:22am

kdevitt wrote: »

Yes - but if you have a 9 year old car which will soon require annual inspections, but currently has bi-annual, it may encourage the easily scared into sending the car to the big scrap heap in the sky.

Its a shame to see the cars that end up getting destroyed.

Totally irrational though.
My current daily driver will be twenty next year and so far has flown through two NCT tests without issues (and should continue doing so, hopefully)

kdevitt · 16-12-2009 10:26am

peasant wrote: »

Totally irrational though.
My current daily driver will be twenty next year and so far has flown through two NCT tests without issues (and should continue doing so, hopefully)

Of course its totally irrational!

But it happens -

This is a car that went for scrappage in the Uk btw:

Vegeta · 16-12-2009 10:29am

What exactly is the motivation for this? Is this not a blatant revenue generation exercise?

The NCT brought in as a way to make the roads safer yeah? Yet a tiny % of accidents are due to vehicle failures, aren't they. So why would this be needed annually if there is no problem with safety.

Is there a report stating that cars over 10 years old are more of a threat (to other road users) on the roads.

Sure older cars have less safety features but an NCT isn't going to fit some additional airbags.

Gregor Samsa · 16-12-2009 10:32am

There's a couple of other interesting changes coming in the NCT, including

Tyres will also have to have an “E” mark, certifying that their grip and performance meets international standards. This follows moves by the department to restrict the sale and supply of retreaded tyres.

But still no plans for recording mileage at test.

macplaxton · 16-12-2009 10:33am

Thoie wrote: »

I think it's not as big a deal in the UK because as I understand it you can get it done in your local garage at any time - you don't have to wait for appointments and travel to a limited number of centers.

On the mainland yes, NI is 10 DVTA test centres.

Annual would be fine, if it's 12 months from last test, not registration birthday. Over 30s I wouldn't have an issue with, if the testers were tame. I seen some shockingly baldy tyres at shows.

Have they got round to testing motorcycles yet?

Gregor Samsa · 16-12-2009 10:36am

Vegeta wrote: »

The NCT brought in as a way to make the roads safer yeah? Yet a tiny % of accidents are due to vehicle failures, aren't they. So why would this be needed annually if there is no problem with safety.

The pass rate on cars 10 years and older is 32% (according to the IT article). Now some of this may be down to misaligned headlights, but the impression given is that older cars are not being maintained to the standard they should be (to anyone reading this with a 10 yr + car, of course I don't mean you, I know you look after your like your first born

).

Of course the extra revenue can't hurt either.

peasant · 16-12-2009 10:37am

At least my oldy won't fail on any of this

The final change to the car test is that malfunction warning lights for airbags, electronic and anti-lock braking systems and electronic stability control will be checked. The vehicle will fail if these don’t work properly.

16-12-2009 10:42am

More money :rolleyes:

Vegeta · 16-12-2009 10:52am

phutyle wrote: »

The pass rate on cars 10 years and older is 32% (according to the IT article). Now some of this may be down to misaligned headlights, but the impression given is that older cars are not being maintained to the standard they should be (to anyone reading this with a 10 yr + car, of course I don't mean you, I know you look after your like your first born ).

Of course the extra revenue can't hurt either.

Found it

http://www.ncts.ie/test_stats.html

biko · 16-12-2009 11:00am

In Sweden a brand new car is inspected after 3 years, then after 2, then every year. About the same price as here.
The MOT is yearly.

It'll help get some of the worst rust buckets off the road.

I like the ban on noisy exhausts, fekking ricers

alastair · 16-12-2009 11:02am

phutyle wrote: »

The pass rate on cars 10 years and older is 32% (according to the IT article). Now some of this may be down to misaligned headlights, but the impression given is that older cars are not being maintained to the standard they should be (to anyone reading this with a 10 yr + car, of course I don't mean you, I know you look after your like your first born ).

I was in getting my 20 year old yoke NCT'd yesterday. It passed, despite a blowing exhaust that I'd assumed would mean a fail. My attitude to the NCT is that it's a handy/cheap means of generating a fix list for the garage - so it's failed before, but on stupid stuff like the aforementioned misaligned lights. I'm surprised that the fail rate is so low tbh.

Saw a five year old car fail in the test centre yesterday on a blown indicator bulb - you have to wonder how the owner didn't check beforehand.

Slidey · 16-12-2009 11:03am

I would also be of the opinion that €50 is cheap for a test.

What would you get done in a main dealers for his price?

kona · 16-12-2009 11:19am

Cannot wait to get the **** out of this joke of a country.

These bastards rip off motorists, moving goal posts all the time, with a stupid test that is just a pain in the arse, now Ive to do it every year? Will they halve the price? Hell no.
Then we have VRT, TAX , Insurance. The pricks are effectivley forcing people to buy disposable cars, cars that are sub 2l , plastic, 5* NCAP, and look like ****e, while scrapping anything thats decent.

Then you cycle into town on their joke of cycle lanes, lock your bike praying some ****face scumbag who is on temp release or a suspended sentance for his 1,400th conviction, because we dont have enough prison spaces, doesnt rob the bike or your house while your gone. Get ****ing ripped off in the shops, have to dodge the numerous illegal bums in the street, trafficked here to beg. Then you get knocked down on the way home, and die on the floor of a piss soaked hospital floor because the ****ing Public service are on strike and there isnt a doctor to save your life or a bed to die in.

**** off you pack of incompetant lazy corrupt bastards.

****ERS

:mad:

Oh and the reason I cycle is because the city has been so badly planned and public transport so underfunded in the boom times(humm public transport or a poxy spire or a dirty clock in the liffey??? rite ted who needs public transport?) that the only way to get the 4miles into town in 20mins is by bike. Well done you poxy ****ing government, I know who i wont be voting for, None of you scaldy bastards, Yer all lying bastards.

Hornswoggle · 16-12-2009 11:22am

Don't know if this has already been posted, but a number of new rules have been introduced to the NCT. They are

-Cars 10 years or older will have to be tested every year

-Cars fitted with tinited windows that have a light transmission level of less than 65 percent will fail the test automatically :mad:

-Cars with an exhaust that makes more than 99 decibels of noise will automatically fail

-Tyres will have to have an “E” mark, certifying that their grip and performance meets international standards

-Malfunction warning lights for airbags, electronic and anti-lock braking systems and electronic stability control will be checked

-The NCT will start testing rear fog lamps, reversing lights and rear registration-plate lamps.

So what does everyone think about the new changes? The only one that really effects me is the tinted windows one, will have to check that mine aren't over the limit.

See more info here

kingtut · 16-12-2009 11:28am

If it means safer cars on the roads then I'm all for extra checks as part of the NCT. All I wish now is that they would get the lunatic drivers off of the roads and make them safer for the rest of us. :mad:

kazul · 16-12-2009 11:30am

Will I need to fit a rear fog light if it's not original equipment?

antodeco · 16-12-2009 11:30am

Grr, thats going to get really annoying. Ive a 21 year old mini, that easily does less than 200 miles in year, but I will now need to pay €50 to have it checked. Thats 25c per mile the test will cost me. Dont get me wrong, I can understand their reasoning behind it, but I think there needs to be a certain allowance/cost involved. Im soon to have a 30 year old car aswell, so once the vintage part doesnt change, I wont be too annoyed.

mike65 · 16-12-2009 11:38am

Pfft! Like it'll make a blind bit of difference to anyone replacing light bulbs! (See other thread) Money money money.

Anjin · 16-12-2009 11:53am

kona wrote: »

Cannot wait to get the **** out of this joke of a country.

These bastards rip off motorists, moving goal posts all the time, with a stupid test that is just a pain in the arse, now Ive to do it every year? Will they halve the price? Hell no.
Then we have VRT, TAX , Insurance. The pricks are effectivley forcing people to buy disposable cars, cars that are sub 2l , plastic, 5* NCAP, and look like ****e, while scrapping anything thats decent.

Then you cycle into town on their joke of cycle lanes, lock your bike praying some ****face scumbag who is on temp release or a suspended sentance for his 1,400th conviction, because we dont have enough prison spaces, doesnt rob the bike or your house while your gone. Get ****ing ripped off in the shops, have to dodge the numerous illegal bums in the street, trafficked here to beg. Then you get knocked down on the way home, and die on the floor of a piss soaked hospital floor because the ****ing Public service are on strike and there isnt a doctor to save your life or a bed to die in.

**** off you pack of incompetant lazy corrupt bastards.

****ERS

:mad:

Oh and the reason I cycle is because the city has been so badly planned and public transport so underfunded in the boom times(humm public transport or a poxy spire or a dirty clock in the liffey??? rite ted who needs public transport?) that the only way to get the 4miles into town in 20mins is by bike. Well done you poxy ****ing government, I know who i wont be voting for, None of you scaldy bastards, Yer all lying bastards.

NOW THAT'S HOW TO BITCH !!!

gyppo · 16-12-2009 12:10pm

kona wrote: »

Cannot wait to get the **** out of this joke of a country.

These bastards rip off motorists, moving goal posts all the time, with a stupid test that is just a pain in the arse, now Ive to do it every year? Will they halve the price? Hell no.
Then we have VRT, TAX , Insurance. The pricks are effectivley forcing people to buy disposable cars, cars that are sub 2l , plastic, 5* NCAP, and look like ****e, while scrapping anything thats decent.

Then you cycle into town on their joke of cycle lanes, lock your bike praying some ****face scumbag who is on temp release or a suspended sentance for his 1,400th conviction, because we dont have enough prison spaces, doesnt rob the bike or your house while your gone. Get ****ing ripped off in the shops, have to dodge the numerous illegal bums in the street, trafficked here to beg. Then you get knocked down on the way home, and die on the floor of a piss soaked hospital floor because the ****ing Public service are on strike and there isnt a doctor to save your life or a bed to die in.

**** off you pack of incompetant lazy corrupt bastards.

****ERS

:mad:

Oh and the reason I cycle is because the city has been so badly planned and public transport so underfunded in the boom times(humm public transport or a poxy spire or a dirty clock in the liffey??? rite ted who needs public transport?) that the only way to get the 4miles into town in 20mins is by bike. Well done you poxy ****ing government, I know who i wont be voting for, None of you scaldy bastards, Yer all lying bastards.

I know just how you feel buddy.

cruizer101 · 16-12-2009 12:39pm

kazul wrote: »

Will I need to fit a rear fog light if it's not original equipment?

Rules of the road page 33 says rear fog light is not required, so I would imagine they are just testing it if you have one.

Unless they have gone and changed the rules there.

I also don't get the whole greens wanting people to scrap cars, surely it is far more environmentally concscious to keep good care of and keep using older cars, even if they aren't as efficient. New cars take a hell of a lot of resources to make.

Dravokivich · 16-12-2009 12:56pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

New cars take a hell of a lot of resources to make.

And electric cars take alot of resources to recharge... :rolleyes:

- Drav!

Guy:Incognito · 16-12-2009 12:57pm

Thoie wrote: »

I think it's not as big a deal in the UK because as I understand it you can get it done in your local garage at any time - you don't have to wait for appointments and travel to a limited number of centers.

Yep nothign like taking it down to good ole honest joe the local garage, who would never dream of "finding" faults on yourcar that of course have to be fixed straight away to pass.

The MOT system is a dodgy garages wet dream.

tommmy1979 · 16-12-2009 1:05pm

wooohooooo ..... my car is 19 years old and just passed the NCT... disc expires in January 2012:D. I don't really have a problem with the annual test though, might force me to keep on top of the small things a bit more. I'll go mental if they change the emmisions limits though as mine is pre-cat regulations:D

T

Slidey · 16-12-2009 1:06pm

Stekelly wrote: »

The MOT system is a dodgy garages wet dream.

You only have to take a close look at some of the DoE centres in Ireland to see this in all its glory.

I work in one now and when some customers don't like the test they get they either tell you that so and so would pass that or just go to a different test centre. That is the problem with independent testing

galwaytt · 16-12-2009 1:08pm

tommmy1979 wrote: »

wooohooooo ..... my car is 19 years old and just passed the NCT... disc expires in January 2012:D. I don't really have a problem with the annual test though, might force me to keep on top of the small things a bit more. I'll go mental if they change the emmisions limits though as mine is pre-cat regulations:D

T

....as mentioned, they can only fail it if it's worse than the 'as new' condition. That is, 'as new' 19 years ago.........modern standards won't apply.........

CJhaughey · 16-12-2009 1:13pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

And electric cars take alot of resources to recharge... :rolleyes:

- Drav!

Thats the truth, Coal and Peat and Gas are used to generate inefficient power that flows along powerlines that lose some and then into your home all the while losing little bits along the way.
What happens to the massive batteries that need to be dumped in 5yrs time?
Is that factored in?
I wonder sometimes.

Seth Brundle · 16-12-2009 1:29pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Thats the truth, Coal and Peat and Gas are used to generate inefficient power that flows along powerlines that lose some and then into your home all the while losing little bits along the way.
What happens to the massive batteries that need to be dumped in 5yrs time?
Is that factored in?
I wonder sometimes.

5 years?
These batteries have a longer lifespan than that. I recall contacting Toyota a few years ago regarding the battery for the Prius and at that point (coming towards 8 years in production) none had been replaced in Ireland.

Gregor Samsa · 16-12-2009 2:25pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

What happens to the massive batteries that need to be dumped in 5yrs time?
Is that factored in?

OT I know, but Prius batteries have an 8 year warranty (100,000 miles) or 10 years (150,000 miles) in California and some other states - and you would expect any product to last longer than its warranty (on average). Toyota have lab tests for the battery reaching 180,000 miles with no deterioration - obviously no one knows for sure how long they'll last in the real world, and some will fail before others, but the expectation is that they'll last the life of the car.

cruizer101 · 16-12-2009 2:25pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

And electric cars take alot of resources to recharge... :rolleyes:

- Drav!

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more fuel efficient cars and more carbon neutral methods of transport.

But I'd be curious as to the Carbon footprint of a new car, as compared to the difference between an older and newer car fuel consumption over a few years. Anyway don't want to derail thread.

Overall I'm don't mind the idea too much if it is well implemented i.e. short waiting times.

Tenzor07 · 16-12-2009 4:38pm

Most of the environmental damage has already been done by the time the car is produced and delivered to the dealer, so while a brand new car might be less polluting on a daily basis, the damage has already been done..Its a boost to SIMI and there cronies, get cars scrapped that won't be sold on off the road and people in disposable recycleable basic cars that last 3 years...

Be interesting to see the exhaust rule being brought in as the Gardai have no roadside testing equipement, and at what rev range/DB limit the test will be at...

Article: Older cars could face annual NCT test

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