Should the old rail line from Collooney to Claremorris be made into a walking trail

westtip · 02-10-2009 12:46am #1

there is a thread on Commuting and Transport about the Western Rail Corridor (WRC) which the old line from Claremorris to Collooney - or Collooney to Claremorris - depending on your point of view forms part of. This most northern part of the line which runs from Sligo to Limerick is not due to be opened as part the National Development Plan - and in all liklihood never will be. However it has great potential as a walking and cycling track - A group called West on Track has campaigned extensively to keep a campaign going to re-open this line and has involved the various chambers of commerce along the route - Sligo CoC, Tobercurry etc, however the group is a living in forlorn hope. This is highly unlikeley to happen.

The route of the old rail line is well preserved and would add tremendous value to the area as a walking and cycling long distance path - if you live in the area and can see the benefits of this potential 40 odd mile greenway then lets hear your views. it would be both a tremendous tourist attaction and of great benefit to the locals - What do you think?

shanec1928 · 02-10-2009 8:19am

theres a bit of a problem you have to cross the main roads a couple of times

darealtulip · 02-10-2009 8:38am

forza rovers wrote: »

theres a bit of a problem you have to cross the main roads a couple of times

Why is that a problem?

westtip · 02-10-2009 8:57am

darealtulip wrote: »

Why is that a problem?

Yes I wondered the same myself, good gates where the path meets the road to stop kids you are with from rushing on - and adequate road signage. I will post up some other stuff about this idea sometime today and the potential benefits to the area, in fact the sheer number of railway crossings over roads effectively makes the opening of this as a railway again nye on impossible.

This whole issue has been debated a hell of a lot in the commuting and transprot forum under the Western Rail Corridor thread - I opened this thread on this forum to try and pick up some local views - Sligo viewers of this local forum and see what people thought:

In reality the Collooney - Claremorris Railway line is not going to be re-opened ever; on a number or grounds, need, technical issues, cost benefit analysis etc, likely demand too low etc, bus transport will serve the region better.

It is not part of Transport 21 - which for the next ten years will remain the blueprint for transport infrastructure spending - no matter what shade of Government we have - In the current climate Transport 21 is not going to have any additional projects added to it - in fact we all know it is going to get cuts.

So here in Sligo we have an old rail line - with the line virtually in tact (OK a few people have nicked a bit of land here and there and decided the line is now part of their back garden), but essentially it is in tact and runs through some pretty places.

There are now examples of such disused rail lines being used in Ireland one in Waterford can be looked at here: http://www.earthroute.ie/Greenways_files/walkingstrategy.pdf

This is a fine example of what I am suggesting for our old railway line or as they are referred to by Sustrans Greenways: Greenways are often Long-Distance pathways and cycletracks which are typically built upon dismantled or disused rail-alignments, or other similar corridors

http://www.sustrans.org.uk

Just think what a fantistic facility our own Greenway in the North west would be for cyclists, families with kids in buggies or aged parents in wheelchairs if a simple path no more than four to five foot wide was laid down the length of the track from Collooney to Claremorris - would this be in the better interest of the greater majority of the public rather than continuting to campaign for a rail line - which quite frankly is not required, and will be used by a very small minority and if in many years to come a need arises the maintained foot/cyclepath can once again be laid with rails. In the UK an organisation called Sustrans (go and google sustrans to see what I mean) have really driven this whole idea of old railway lines being used productively like this. One of the first examples of such a line was peak district in Derbyshire England - The Tissington Trail, just paste these words into Google and see how many businesses in the peak district benefitt from this simple tourist attraction - an old railway line converted into a long distance cycle/foot/buggy/wheelchair path, will bring tourist euros into our area and be of benefit to all those living in the towns along its route.

Look at the way the Tissington trail is promoted as a tourist attraction http://www.cressbrook.co.uk/visits/tisstrail.php

http://www.derbyshire-peakdistrict.co.uk/tissingtontrail.htm

http://www.highpeak.co.uk/hp/h_tistbd.htm

Have a look at some of the things I have mentioned and then maybe from these local boards we can drive some interest in the idea in the area, it would be a cost effective way of securing the route for any future potential rail line and would give us a cost effective sustainable tourist attraction immediately.

starbelgrade · 02-10-2009 9:50pm

If I had my way, I would use the stretch of railway line from Coolaney to Collooney to make a decent, straight & safe road to connect the two towns, with a small hard shoulder for pedestrians & cyclists.

It would also half the driving time... it's a no brainer... safer for everyone & better for the environment.

As it stands, allowing disused railway lines to be left to rot, is a disgrace. Use 'em or lose 'em.

Culchie · 04-10-2009 9:48am

Surely crossing a few roads can't be a big deal.

I mean, they can be foot bridges afterall, so need need for large capital spend, It's an excellent idea.

I think a cycle lane would be equally viable ... maybe even more so... people can travel further, stop off at more locations, and spend more money in the local economies on food and accommodation/drink.

It will not need 'massive' money to set up, and it would pay the state back the investment within a couple of years .... can't think of a better tourist attraction in the North West to be honest.

westtip · 04-10-2009 1:08pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

If I had my way, I would use the stretch of railway line from Coolaney to Collooney to make a decent, straight & safe road to connect the two towns, with a small hard shoulder for pedestrians & cyclists.

It would also half the driving time... it's a no brainer... safer for everyone & better for the environment.

As it stands, allowing disused railway lines to be left to rot, is a disgrace. Use 'em or lose 'em.

Don't think this one will happen although yes it is an idea with merit - I would not have a hard shoulder but a proper footpath for pedestrians and cyclists but if you want to turn the route into a road the idea would have to be adopted by the NRA and would meet strong opposition from West on Track the group campaigning for this rail line to be opened. The volume of traffic would probably not justify it and the argument that the N17 is at some stage going to be upgraded would go against this idea - but it is an idea with merit.

Culchie wrote: »

Surely crossing a few roads can't be a big deal.

I mean, they can be foot bridges afterall, so need need for large capital spend, It's an excellent idea.

I think a cycle lane would be equally viable ... maybe even more so... people can travel further, stop off at more locations, and spend more money in the local economies on food and accommodation/drink.

It will not need 'massive' money to set up, and it would pay the state back the investment within a couple of years .... can't think of a better tourist attraction in the North West to be honest.

I don't think we woudl need to extend to the need for footbridges - adequate warnings on the road about a pedestrian crossing and maybe some traffic calming measures like painted chevrons on the approach and good care and attention by pedestrians and cyclists would mean it was safe for them to cross. In terms of investment to set up - Sustrans the UK charity/quasi government org set up to manage the off road cycle and walking network in the UK reckon on about 40,000 sterling per mile to convert an old rail line to walkway/cycleway - Between 5 and 7 million Euro would go a long way to doing the entire stretch from Collooney to Claremorris and just think what an attraction it would be - and how much it wodl be used by both locals, others in the region coming to use it and visitors flowing into the region.

The group West on Track are campaigning to have the whole line from Collooney to Claremorris - then onto to Tuam and Athenry opened up as a working railway again - The section from Athenry to Ennis has recently been redone up and is due to open in December - but somehow in the current climate I cannot see the next section - Athenry Tuam happening (although the Greens may force it through. Our section in Sligo - the northerm most section of the Western Rail corridor from Collooney to the Mayo border at Charlestown is not even planned in the Government blueprint for transport Transport 21 - Can anyone from the area honestly ever see it happening ? I can't so say why not use the line now as a "linear park" greenway - I am sure it would be a great asset to the area and in real terms cost very little to get going and little in maintenance - What do you think would be interested in views of people who live in the likes of Tobercurry, Coolaney, Collooney, Balisodare etc.

Culchie · 04-10-2009 4:44pm

I wonder could a co-op type of organisation be set up....whereby locals could be shareholders (and therefore fund raisers) in the project, so that it wouldn't cost the government a bean.

westtip · 04-10-2009 8:18pm

Culchie wrote: »

I wonder could a co-op type of organisation be set up....whereby locals could be shareholders (and therefore fund raisers) in the project, so that it wouldn't cost the government a bean.

a lot of the sustrans projects are driven by local communities desire to have such walkways and cycleways and quite often they get structural funds from the UK lottery; I think such a source of funding would be an ideal place to start (Irish Lottery of course! but also funds from Eamon O'Cuivs dept might be forthcoming plus Failte Ireland and the DOT has a cycling and sustainable transport section which may help) - but it needs to be driven from a local activist group - If you say took the Tobercurry to Charlestown section as a starter - get the local Chambers of commerce on board for the idea and community councils and local councillors - I just don't think anyone living along this line in the Sligo section has given this idea a thought - West on Track have been campaigning to have the railway restored and in reality this section at least simply isn't goig to happen (Its not part of Transport 21 at least - and all those projects are now in Jeopardy due to cutbacks), I think a lot of people have been seeing the posters on the N17/18 and thinking oh that railway is going to be re-opened when reality this is far from certain - and yet the line from Collooney - Claremorris would be an ideal project for such a cycling/walking scheme - so any ideas you have to get the ball rolling locally then lets hear them.

JupiterKid · 06-10-2009 9:25am

I think it's a great idea.

As westtip opined, the line is very unlikely ever to reopen as a rail line, given the very low and scattered population in Mayo and Sligo that does not warrant a rail line. The dire financial state of the government coffers really puts the final nails in the coffin of a rail project.

A cycleway with walking paths alongside might be the way to go. Perhaps it could link into local tourist attractions and be promoted as a new tourist trail, with maps etc.

In North America, there are a number of historic and national scenic trails in existence. Perhaps this could be the start of something on a smaller scale for Ireland?

westtip · 06-10-2009 2:19pm

Jupiter thanks for comments anyone interested in this idea may have seen this article in the Champion about it in the summer:

http://www.sligochampion.ie/temp/looking-at-a-short--term-use-for-the-western-rail-line-1754531.html

If the idea is to have any chance of coming out the fog it needs to be driven by local communties as an alternative voice to West on Track - that this idea will actually work and will benefit the local community almost straight away - in reality the rail line is never going to re-open - we all know that, the dogs on the street know it so why can't we do something useful with the facility now!!!

IN fact here is the entre article refered to above in case it goes off the champion site:

Sligo Champion article by Felim O'Rourke

Wednesday May 27 2009
For the last decade there has been a highly effective campaign to have the Claremorris to Collooney rail line reopened. The driving force behind this campaign has been the West on Track Group. This group has displayed commendable PR, networking and marketing abilities and created a situation where there is now considerable political support for the re-opening of this line.

Iarnrod Eireann, the owners of the track, has always displayed a reluctance to push forward this project. Iarnrod Eireann is obviously afraid that if the Claremorris to Collooney line is built that it will lose significant sums annually on the route.

A recent Irish Times article by Brian O'Connell called "Ghost Train" about the Limerick Junction to Waterford line indicates the potential disaster of reopening Claremorris to Collooney. The Limerick Junction to Waterford line carries about 54,000 passengers annually. This amounts to an average of 17 passengers per train.

Some years ago the Government asked Sligo's Pat McCann to look at the possible re-opening of the route. Pat McCann did not believe that the Claremorris to Collooney section was viable.

A number of persons, including Brendan Quinn of Enniscrone, have suggested that the Claremorris to Colloney line be developed as a cycle path and horse riding trail. This use would help to stimulate tourism in the West. This concept should appeal particularly to Sligo people as a disused rail line has been developed by Kempten, Sligo's twin town, into a long distance cycle track.

In Bavaria the tourism industry is based on giving visitors access to the countryside and mountains. Disused rail lines are extensively used as cycling/walking trails. There is a 60 kilometre rail network from Kempten through the Allgau region that is a key tourism resource of the Allgau.

Disused rail lines are also used extensively in Britain as cycle ways. These provide safe off-road routes or "linear parks" for the local population especially children.

The West on Track group recently organised a conference on the Western Rail Corridor. Éamon Ó Cuív TD, Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs addressed this conference. The Minister told the conference that he "would like to take the opportunity to pose a question and that is should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway? The Claremorris to Collooney stretch of the railway line will not start before 2014 and its use as a walkway and cycleway would solve a lot of encroachment issues in the meantime. It is something for us to think about."

The Minister, whose commitment to the development of the West is unquestionable, is asking for an open and honest debate on the future use of this route. The options are that there is a continued campaign to have the line re-opened and as this option is not financially viable the politicians will just kick to touch and nothing will happen for ten or twenty years. The alternative is to develop the route as a cycle path.

A cycle track from Collooney to Claremorris could be just the start of an extensive network of offroad cycle tracks in the West and North West. Such a network would be an enormous boost to all types of activity tourism in the region.

It would be relatively cheap to lift the old rail lines and replace them with a 2 metre strip of tarmacadam. This work would create direct employment and would then open up employment opportunities in tourism in all the towns and villages along the route.

The suggestion from the Minister has the great advantage that the use of the route as a cycleway does not preclude its use in the future as a rail line. The use of the route as a cycle way will, as the Minister said, protect the public ownership of the route

The people of Sligo and Mayo are now faced with a choice. The choice is to continue to campaign for a rail line that is not viable and will not be built in the foreseeable future or use the route for the benefit of the community and especially the tourism industry.

I look forward to the day, in the not too distant future, when I, with my grandsons Cian and Senan, can take a bike in Collooney and ride to Claremorris. We will take it easy on the gradual upslope to Coolaney, where we will stop for coffee. We will then go down the gentle slope to Tubbercurry.

Being old and unfit I will want to rest and have a meal in Tubber or we may decide to keep going to Curry and stop in the Yeats Hotel. We will be fully refreshed before venturing across the border into Mayo where we will look for overnight accommodation.

On our way we will meet tourists from Dublin, Britain and Germany. The visitors will be cycling, walking and horse-riding. They will enjoy the marvellous beauty of the West and travel at their ease on the fabulous new facility. They will enjoy the trip so much that we will tell all our friends to cycle the "C2C cycleway".

If Minister O'Cuiv's vision is realised then the West on Track Group will have helped, by keeping a political focus on this important resource, to create a major breakthrough in tourism for the West.

westtip · 07-10-2009 12:01pm

Would anyone be interested in "Walking the line" from say Tobercurry to Charlestown one day to get a feel of what I am talking about? We could meet at Tubercurry station maybe organise transport at either end and do the walk one afternoon? any takers? Or maybe just walk as far as Joyces? post a note or a PM if interested.

Snark · 07-10-2009 1:16pm

I'm on for the tubercurry-charlestown hike idea

I think if you got a group of ramblers doing a regular walk on the route, or parts of it - that would be the way to kick this off.

travelling down the moy in a canoe is also a fun thing to do

Culchie · 07-10-2009 11:55pm

westtip wrote: »

Would anyone be interested in "Walking the line" from say Tobercurry to Charlestown one day to get a feel of what I am talking about? We could meet at Tubercurry station maybe organise transport at either end and do the walk one afternoon? any takers? Or maybe just walk as far as Joyces? post a note or a PM if interested.

Reminds me of a night coming home from the pub when I lived in Switzerland, in the Alps. Finished the night in 'Top Pub' the highest point of the village, decided to take a short cut home (middle of winter) along the railway tracks.

A few months later when the snow had thawed, I realised that I had walked about 50 metres over a bridge that has nothing but fresh air between the sleepers,:eek: I had put a foot on a sleeper every time:pac:

If I was sober you could be sure I wouldn't have been able to do that!

tuppence · 08-10-2009 10:09am

westtip wrote: »

a lot of the sustrans projects are driven by local communities desire to have such walkways and cycleways and quite often they get structural funds from the UK lottery; I think such a source of funding would be an ideal place to start (Irish Lottery of course! but also funds from Eamon O'Cuivs dept might be forthcoming plus Failte Ireland and the DOT has a cycling and sustainable transport section which may help) - but it needs to be driven from a local activist group - If you say took the Tobercurry to Charlestown section as a starter - get the local Chambers of commerce on board for the idea and community councils and local councillors - I just don't think anyone living along this line in the Sligo section has given this idea a thought - West on Track have been campaigning to have the railway restored and in reality this section at least simply isn't goig to happen (Its not part of Transport 21 at least - and all those projects are now in Jeopardy due to cutbacks), I think a lot of people have been seeing the posters on the N17/18 and thinking oh that railway is going to be re-opened when reality this is far from certain - and yet the line from Collooney - Claremorris would be an ideal project for such a cycling/walking scheme - so any ideas you have to get the ball rolling locally then lets hear them.

I am in agreement that the route be used with the long term goal though of reopening in the future. I do reckon that a rail link serves the area, public transport shuldnt always be about lobbying that theres a full train/bus etc, its the choice it gives to an area and the opportunities for tourism.

As far as monies and support form Eamon O Cuivs department mightn't be a great option in the future, he has got badly hit by An Board Snip, even if he managed to save the Department some of his most adored projects like the Rapid Scheme are now looking dubious. The Co-Op idea probably is the cornerstone, and something on a combined tourism model like the Greenbox.:)

westtip · 08-10-2009 1:48pm

tuppence wrote: »

I am in agreement that the route be used with the long term goal though of reopening in the future. I do reckon that a rail link serves the area, public transport shuldnt always be about lobbying that theres a full train/bus etc, its the choice it gives to an area and the opportunities for tourism.

As far as monies and support form Eamon O Cuivs department mightn't be a great option in the future, he has got badly hit by An Board Snip, even if he managed to save the Department some of his most adored projects like the Rapid Scheme are now looking dubious. The Co-Op idea probably is the cornerstone, and something on a combined tourism model like the Greenbox.:)

Tuppence, good points thanks for the contribution: The point about the long term goal to re-open the line is fine - actually I doubt the political will or money will ever be there but that is another issue- and believe me Ianrod Eirrean are going to come under increasing competitive pressure on some of their mainline routes from express (cheaper) bus services -both Dublin-Galway and Dublin Cork are going to be under severe pressure when the motorways are fully opened, which may actually threaten long distance rail travel on these routes. I know what you mean about Public Transport as a service - but believe me - in terms of rail projects this one (norther section of the WRC from Claremorris to Collooney) is so far down the agenda it won't be even considered in the next 30 years - the chances of this line being reopened are very remote - however my argument is lets use the lineage of the line now, and protect the ownership of the line - and lets get something very cost effective and for which there would be demand, In the UK there are a number of Sustrans projects with walks and cycles running parallel with railways - put it this way - if the line is ever going to be re-opened the existing track will have to be pulled up anyway - its kind of symbolic still having it in place - so if a walkway/cycleway was put in place now - the route would be preserved for future generations (if the rail line could ever be opened) and we would have a cheap first class tourism and leisure facility now rather than a thought about the far distant future when the railway will open again - For me anyway, the walking cycling route is a no brainer - Lets put it in place now and protect the alignment for the future and take it from there....

I think sourcing monetary support for this project would need to be begged from O'Cuivs Department, Lottery Funding, Failte Ireland, Sligo Coco and Local fund raising. Plus there is a chance of cross border funding (from Sustrans) if there could be a connnection made with the Enniskillen Sligo line - Which would make a great tourist attraction - but now taking this idea a step further.

Lets debate the idea a bit more here on a local boards forum then maybe we can physically pull a group of people together to brainstorm how it could be taken forward and maybe find how the idea will be received by the stake holders involved.

westtip · 11-10-2009 8:44pm

I think this is very encouraging from the new programme for Government - perhaps now is the right time to strike out on this idea:

We will promote the development of cycling as a growth area for tourism.
· We will introduce an All-Ireland Walkways Development Plan, mapping out
infrastructural needs and routes and maximising their use. We will pursue the
possibility of using former railway infrastructure as recreational trails for cycling
etc. in partnership with Iarnród Éireann.

From page 13 of the document issued this weekendhttp://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2009/pfg/index.pdf

westtip · 12-10-2009 10:26pm

this link is well worth looking at for anyone with an interest in this subject:

http://www.sustransconnect2.org.uk/resources/guidelines%206.pdf

trail man · 13-10-2009 2:01pm

westtip wrote: »

this link is well worth looking at for anyone with an interest in this subject:

http://www.sustransconnect2.org.uk/resources/guidelines%206.pdf

we have some of the best potential in europe to develop old lines to walkways cycleways.. we are living in the dark ages if we think that tourists are going to come and visit our little country just because we are irish and drink guinness..
i have seen what has been done with old rail lines in germany and wow what a money spinner it is..
The tralee to fenit line is going to be converted to a trailway shortly and its sister line the west limerick/north kerry part has been mostly converted to a tourist attraction .. eamon o cuiv played a major role in making it happen..
see www.southerntrail.net for a revelation..

westtip · 13-10-2009 4:22pm

trail man wrote: »

we have some of the best potential in europe to develop old lines to walkways cycleways.. we are living in the dark ages if we think that tourists are going to come and visit our little country just because we are irish and drink guinness..
i have seen what has been done with old rail lines in germany and wow what a money spinner it is..
The tralee to fenit line is going to be converted to a trailway shortly and its sister line the west limerick/north kerry part has been mostly converted to a tourist attraction .. eamon o cuiv played a major role in making it happen..
see www.southerntrail.net for a revelation..

Trailman thanks - I think the will is there from certain politicians it just takes so F***ing long for anything to happen - Felim O'Rourke who wrote the piece in the Champion about this in May actually wrote about the whole subject in the Irish Times back in the 1990s, we just don't gettit, no doubt if this plan is moved forward we will get endless objections from the vested parties of landowners living either side of the line (and for once ownership of the line is indisputedly in public hands through Ianrod Eireann) etc etc. Eamon O'Cuiv did actually refer directly to this idea at a West on Track conference in May - I will dig out what he said and post it up ... Will post up some other stuff as well.

Should the old rail line from Collooney to Claremorris be made into a walking trail

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