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Joe Higgins answers Boards.ie members questions about the Lisbon Treaty

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    #2
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Thanks Darragh, good job again. These interviews should be a regular feature if you ask me.


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    #3
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Joe says he was elected to the EP on the back of his opposition to the Lisbon treaty.

    Does that mean that everyone else was elected on the back of their support for it!?


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    #4
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    prinz wrote: »
    Thanks Darragh, good job again. These interviews should be a regular feature if you ask me.

    If only it was part of the day job ;)

    Seriously though, I'm only a guy with a camera. Anyone can do these. I'd back you all the way from the "official Boards.ie Ltd" viewpoint if you let me know.

    I'd love to see one of these a week or a fortnight.


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    #5
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    The man does a good interview, he comes across as alot more level-headed and honest compared to other politicians.


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    #6
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    He doesn't believe giving countries a voting weight according to their population is 'in the interests of democracy'...

    :rolleyes:


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    #7
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    EP has no legitimacy because we elect a majority of 'right wing' politicians to it...


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    #8
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Finished the first video and he has yet to mention a single thing in the Treaty. Thanks for these. :)


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    #9
    spadder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 985 ✭✭✭spadder


    Good interview Daragh, I'd say we'll hear you on the airwaves soon enough?


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    #10
    bnev
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭bnev


    My name is URL wrote: »
    The man does a good interview, he comes across as alot more level-headed and honest compared to other politicians.

    Yeah he seems a lot more level-headed. I am prepared to take his overall points on board a lot faster than a lot of the other No campaigners.

    Doesn't mean we can't disagree with his fundamental beliefs :-)


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    #11
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    amacachi wrote: »
    Finished the first video and he has yet to mention a single thing in the Treaty. Thanks for these. :)

    Does every single matter that people have concerns about need to be something that's "in the Treaty"?

    You have to understand that alot of people believe that handing power to the people is more important than handing it to a central union. There is no denying that big business is a driving force in politics, and big business does not usually have the interests of the people at heart.

    Whatever is contained in the Treaty is not going to blatantly mention a shift in power that disenfranchises Joe Soap. The idea of taking a stance against a bigger long term agenda is not one that should be dismissed as moot, at least not for those that believe they'll have limited opportunity to air their views again any time soon.

    / opinion


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    #12
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    spadder wrote: »
    Good interview Daragh, I'd say we'll hear you on the airwaves soon enough?

    --off topic--

    Erm. I dunno. In fairness, I do get asked from time to time but I don't feel I have that much to contribute. It's great being able to talk about Boards.ie and that sort of stuff.

    There are those who'd consider me a media whore (was on Morning Ireland this morning talking Google Wave) but I never chase, only accept invites.

    Have to get rid of me culchie accent before you hear me more ;)

    --off topic--


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    #13
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    What a load of nonsense about the privitising health and education :)


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    #14
    Soldie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Soldie


    He has said little to nothing about the treaty itself - he just keeps droning on and on and on about multi-national corporations, workers, neo-liberalism and right-wing politics. His cheap rhetoric is bemusing, given the fact that actual neo-liberal economists were fiercely critical of pre-financial crisis macroeconomics (and remain fiercely critical of governments' subsequent handling of said crisis). His answers just smack of political oppurtunism. He doesn't oppose the treaty, he's just disgruntled that nobody takes his absurd views seriously - but why would they? I'm inclined to suggest that this thread would be better suited to the 'Conspiracy Theories' forum. ;)


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    #15
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    EP has no legitimacy because we elect a majority of 'right wing' politicians to it...

    Yeah, that was a bit of a laugh out loud moment alright....
    bnev wrote: »
    Yeah he seems a lot more level-headed.
    My name is URL wrote: »
    The man does a good interview, he comes across as alot more level-headed and honest compared to other politicians.

    +1, I don't agree with his politics but I give him a lot of respect as a politician and speaker. He says his bit and that's it, none of the hysterics of most politicians ( of all sides and political beliefs ) plus he really used to enliven the Dáil from time to time with his wit. Sorely lacking now.:mad:

    Off topic bit now, but I think interviews like these are what's really needed. It is so refreshing to have a question asked and time for the interviewee to respond in full, without being cut across, having another question asked while they are answering the previous one, being rushed because the ad break is coming, or having three or four people just talking over each other. RTÉ's political coverage for the last couple of years has gone rapidly downhill IMO. Even Prime Time is done on a stopwatch basis it seems to me, everything is "in one sentence sum up..." or "in 30 seconds tell us.." it really seems to me that mainstream media, tv and radio, really fear losing the attention of viewers and listeners when it comes to politics these days, perhaps they have a point. But I for one would much rather watch these interviews. Major coup for boards.ie in my book. Heard more about Joe's thoughts on the EU etc., there than I think I ever have before.


    "The next phase.." sounds a bit ominous though :(

    Edit:- I like how he completely avoided the figure of €1.84, he wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

    p.s. Funny that the very posters hopping up and down yesterday about the lack of a 'no' side interview seem largely to be ignoring this thread... hmmmm. Interesting. :rolleyes:


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    #16
    PrivateEye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    Voltwad wrote: »
    What a load of nonsense about the privitising health and education :)


    Part of IBECs submission to the Forum On Europe:

    A yes vote for the Lisbon Treaty creates the potential for increased opportunities for Irish business particularly in areas subject to increasing liberalisation such as Health, Education, Transport, Energy and the Environment.


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    #17
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Good interview, thanks.


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    #18
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Joe says he was elected to the EP on the back of his opposition to the Lisbon treaty.

    And, the problem with that statement is?
    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Does that mean that everyone else was elected on the back of their support for it!?

    Yes. If someone was pushing a yes campaign for Europe, and you wanted to vote no and didn't believe in their campaign - they would not receive your vote.

    When Joe says he was elected partially due to his campaign against Lisbon, he is telling the truth. I don't see any logical counter to this claim.


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    #19
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    dlofnep wrote: »
    And, the problem with that statement is?



    Yes. If someone was pushing a yes campaign for Europe, and you wanted to vote no and didn't believe in their campaign - they would not receive your vote.

    When Joe says he was elected partially due to his campaign against Lisbon, he is telling the truth. I don't see any logical counter to this claim.

    I'm agreeing with his claim, and it's logical conclusion.


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    #20
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    Part of IBECs submission to the Forum On Europe:

    A yes vote for the Lisbon Treaty creates the potential for increased opportunities for Irish business particularly in areas subject to increasing liberalisation such as Health, Education, Transport, Energy and the Environment.

    A google for that phrase reveals some dubious sources


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    #21
    PrivateEye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    Joes election literature stated that opposing the second Lisbon referendum would be one of his top priorities, anyone who did basic research would know this. He can therefore claim that his opposition to Lisbon was a key factor in his election.


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    #22
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    He can therefore claim that his opposition to Lisbon was a key factor in his election.

    No one is disputing that. However he therefore should acknowledge that all the other Irish MEP's were supportive of the Lisbon Treaty and they all got elected, putting Joe in the minority = using Joe's logic the vast majority of people are pro-Lisbon :cool:


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    #23
    cooperguy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    I was slightly disappointed he wasnt challenged on his point on the Minimum wage judgements because that formed alot of his argument. As far as I know it has been proved wrong here. Both Laval and the other one he talked about.

    Also is argument that they should have come down on the side of unions who wanted equal pay is a bit crazy. Courts have to base there decisions on law (or the lack of a law) not what they would like to happen surely!


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    #24
    imeddyhobbs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭imeddyhobbs


    Thanks for getting somone from the no side Darragh...Your work is appreciated


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    #25
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #26
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Well done once again, very interesting interview! He touched on two huge issues which the yes side have completely ignored:
    "Well I think that there will be a serious reduction in the democratic leverage of ordinary citizens through the type of changes voting patterns etc."

    That is my absolute #1 issue with Lisbon and an issue which yes campaigners have actually managed to make much worse, by telling us that this is something to be welcomed / that direct democracy is bad / by their attitudes towards how much power representatives should have / etc
    "The yes side have tried to suggest that it is a referendum about being in or out of the EU"

    The other major point I agree with here. And again I believe Joe Higgins is the first person involved in politics to actually address this issue publicly.

    Also, no one from the yes side can claim as usual that Mr. Higgins is not a "mainstream campaigners" (which basically means that he's not a member of the political elite, which for some reason yes campaigners seem to see as a good thing) - he's an elected representative for us in the European Parliament, so you can't claim that he's a "fringe" campaigner.

    Again, cheers for the incredible amount of time and effort you've put into this Darragh!


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    #27
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Well done once again, very interesting interview! He touched on two huge issues which the yes side have completely ignored:



    That is my absolute #1 issue with Lisbon and an issue which yes campaigners have actually managed to make much worse, by telling us that this is something to be welcomed / that direct democracy is bad / by their attitudes towards how much power representatives should have / etc

    I'm extremely sorry to hear that, because it means that you'll be voting against your own best interests tomorrow. Lisbon contains a very large upgrade in the power of the citizens with respect to the EU - and by extension, with respect to their governments.

    regretfully,
    Scofflaw


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    #28
    dmfod
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭dmfod


    cooperguy wrote: »
    I was slightly disappointed he wasnt challenged on his point on the Minimum wage judgements because that formed alot of his argument. As far as I know it has been proved wrong here. Both Laval and the other one he talked about.

    Also is argument that they should have come down on the side of unions who wanted equal pay is a bit crazy. Courts have to base there decisions on law (or the lack of a law) not what they would like to happen surely!

    the issue is not about the national minimum wage per se, it's about the more general issue of contractors being able to bring in foreign workers on lower wages and worse conditions than indigenous workers. In Sweden they were able to pay foreign workers less than the Swedish agreed wage, because it wasn't enshrined in law there but was a traditional 'gentlemans' agreement' which no one had violated before. The Laval judgment undermined that traditionl of social solidarity.

    Here in Ireland the national minimum wage is enshrined in law and in some sectors there are industry-agreed legal minimums also, so contractors could not go below those, BUT they could bring in workers willing to work for far less than traditional decent wages in sectors without sectoral legal minimums. it should also be borne in mind that the government and FG are currently in the process of undermining sectoral minimum wages - and some in FF even want to reduce the national minimum wage.

    also as to the courts basing their decisions on law - the law is often open to interpretation - that's why you need judges to decide and no two judges will completely agree on everything. without judicial activism, there wouldn't be abortion rights in America for example. also who makes the law the judges interpret? the EU - so if EU law is anti-worker, this it's the EU's fault.


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    #29
    Long Onion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Long Onion


    I don't buy the argument that voting yes to Lisbon will increase the democratic deficit at all I'm afraid. The fact is that at present, the commission make the decisions, they are not directly elected.

    Lisbon will increase the areas in which the decisions will be made by the directly elected parliament, this, to me at least will decrease the democratic deficit.

    Looking at Ireland and the way that the Dail works, the government will form any alliance that they feel will give them a majority so only their chosen bills make it through and never the oppositions. On a theoretical level, this is not true democracy. But at least the members of the Dail are directly elected, unlike the commission.

    My point is that, true democracy does not really exist either at home or in Europe, I believe that Lisbon will bring us a little closer to achieving it. The real question seems to be whether or not you trust the EU to act for the good of the people of Europe or whether you think the institution is just lying in wait to stick it to us.

    If you were a fisherman, you may have a valid reason to feel the latter, were you a farmer or human rights campaigner you may feel the latter, but this is life and politics in general and is no different to what happens in Ireland on a daily basis - the taxi drivers feel the regulator is out to screw them, many members of the public think that regulation protects the consumer.

    Why the kerfuffle about Lisbon, why the misnomers and half-truths? The only cogent argument that I have heard to date from the No side is that the treaty could be construed as being ambiguous enough to make it extremely difficult to state what exactly is inside or outside the it's scope, this could mean that we may have fewer referenda in the future as it would be hard to say whether or not a given proposal is capable of expanding the remit of the union beyond what was envisaged in the treaty itself.

    This is why we have an EU judiciary, now the question becomes whether or not you believe that the ECJ & Irish courts will be purposfully looking for ways to construe the law in the way which grants the least posssible power to the member states and the most to the Union itself - I believe that this level of conspiracy amongst the judiciary of Europe is, to say the least, unlikely in the extreme - but perhaps i'm just too much of an optimist.


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    #30
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    I voted Yes this morning, but I find this thread comical. Various people are taking side swipes at what Joe Higgins has said without actually giving a decent rebuffal. He's being treated as just another "far left nutjob" which I find very unfair.

    I found some of the things he touched on genuinely disturbing, such as Coca-Cola trying to slash the wages of their staff by 50-60% or threatening them with outsourcing. And that it's all legal under current EU law and will remain so if the treaty is ratified. Also the idea that there would be little to no resistance from this government to stop the privatising of health and education is unfuriating.

    I find Joe to be an incredibly honest politician, and a downright decent human being, that's why I voted for him to become an MEP. However, while he did back up some points with facts and stats, I found too much of what he said to be unsubstantiated rhetoric.

    Great work Darragh. :)


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    #31
    Long Onion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Long Onion


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    I found some of the things he touched on genuinely disturbing, such as Coca-Cola trying to slash the wages of their staff by 50-60% or threatening them with outsourcing. And that it's all legal under current EU law and will remain so if the treaty is ratified. Also the idea that there would be little to no resistance from this government to stop the privatising of health and education is unfuriating.

    The problem is that this will all be legal with our without Lisbon and has absolutely nothing at all to do with the treaty. One of the reasons that many do not take him seriously on this issue is that his arguments are based solely against the evils of rampant capitalism and he tries to fit everytjing else into this narrow frame, on occasions such as this, there is no corrolation between his beliefs and what he is arguing against - this makes him seem even more extreme then he actually is.
    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    I find Joe to be an incredibly honest politician, and a downright decent human being, that's why I voted for him to become an MEP. However, while he did back up some points with facts and stats, I found too much of what he said to be unsubstantiated rhetoric.

    I do not know the man personally, he may indeed be very nice, I can't swallow his rhetoric though so could not vote for him.
    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    Great work Darragh. :)

    +1


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