BARF/Raw Food Diets

Skillie · 28-09-2009 12:17pm #1

Are there any people on here who feed their dogs on the BARf diet. I am making moves towards switching my two onto it as one just does not like dry food and we are struggling to feed him as much as he should be eating. We feed both Orijen and have tried every decent food out there. Orijen is excellent but the Newf just does not like it, we add allsorts to it to get him to eat it but only get short term success.

My research now is to get sample diest if people have them, whats the mix, where do you get your food how do you prepare it etc. Expense is a concern too as obey the 2 to 3% of bodyweight rule would have our newf eating 1.4kg minimum per day and that could get very expensive.

Any tips or advice really appreciated

Cipher · 28-09-2009 1:10pm

Hi Skillie, best thing you could do is to visit www.tailsandtrails.ie

Become a member and they have loads of articles or barf feeding.

Skillie · 28-09-2009 1:16pm

Cipher wrote: »

Hi Skillie, best thing you could do is to visit www.tailsandtrails.ie

Become a member and they have loads of articles or barf feeding.

thank you will do

Top Dog · 28-09-2009 2:26pm

Try this - http://www.topdog.ie/index.php?pageid=raw-barf-faq

ghost_ie · 28-09-2009 11:34pm

Try IAMS. You can buy it in Tesco and my middle dog, who detested dry food and would only eat it if it was mixed with a small amount of tinned food, absolutely adores it. She's been eating it for a couple of months now - all other dry foods she would only eat for a couple of days before she refused it unless mixed with tinned

jen_23 · 29-09-2009 9:59am

The thing I don't like about iams is that they test on animals.
If you google iams cruelty you will get the website with all the info on it.

Skillie · 29-09-2009 10:22am

afraid i wouldn't go down in quality from something like orijen/alcana anyway. Orijen is fantastic but he just isn't into dry food. No disrespect to Iams. you can see the difference in what comes out the other end. we've tried most of them over the years on our other dog.

Skillie · 12-10-2009 12:00pm

Started Charlie (Newf 15 months) and Molly (Golden 5.5 Years) on raw food diet on Friday after weeks of deliberation about it. Basically Charlie has always been a poor grubber, never really liking his food and we have always had to jump through hoops to get him to eat with a daily battle getting him to eat all his kibble. We fed him Orijen and think it’s a great food Molly thrived on it and it stood him well enough bar the fact that he didn’t consume enough and created a battle in doing so. We tried other kibbles with him also and eventually we arrived at Raw as the reluctant best way forward. As we were switching Charlie we felt it was best to switch Doll as well. Went to the butcher and bought a weeks worth on Friday and just went for it over the weekend where we could spend more time with them watching them, feeding them slowly etc and seeing how they were handling it or if they were having any bad reactions etc.

All I can say is I’ve never seen Charlie so happy and enthusiastic about mealtime. Hes transformed and its great to see. This morning he was asleep at the top of the stairs and when I touched the bag the meat was in he moved faster than hes ever done in his life to get down the stairs to the kitchen. Its like replacing a kids rice cake with a lump of chocolate!! Its maily been chicken so far with some minced meat and hearts also. Every time I move now in the kitchen hes watching me to see if I’ll produce some more of that tastey stuff, I was blown away by how powerful his jaws and teeth are he crushed the bone effortlessly and just loved every minute of it. Molly found it more difficult to get used to the concept but she sure loved the taste, as shes 5 years old and always ate kibble it’s a bit alien to her but shes getting the hang of it. I did have to cut the chicken up a lot more than I wish to but hopefully as they get more used to it they’ll strip the portions down themselves and tear and gnaw away at it.

Physically they have not had a bad detox period Molly had a little bile come up once on her walk Friday night and Charlie had this a little too over the weekend but already their poop is smaller and firmer and the best result is how happy they have been with it its like winning the lottery to them!! It’s a bit more expensive than orijen and its deff more time consuming than grabbing a cup of kibble but if the early results are anything to go by I think we made the right choice and I look forward to the long term gains it will bring.

ronbyrne2005 · 12-10-2009 12:05pm

I find my dog will eat any dry food if its mixed with some of his favorite meat/chicken/fish.

Molberts · 12-10-2009 2:45pm

Hi Skillie,

If the BARF diet doesn't work out for any reason, maybe try the new Orijen regional red. Same quality etc but its all red meats like boar, buffalo, bison instead of chicken/fish base like the other two.

Molly nearly takes my hand off when I'm putting it down for her!

suraheg · 04-05-2010 3:54pm

Hi guys,

No idea why this 'BARF' diet is becoming so popular!
They're not getting a balanced diet, for one! I know someone who feeds her dogs raw meat only, and claims that its much better for them. What about the bacterial and parasitic infections associated with raw meat? Surely feeding them a balanced diet is much better than feeding them raw meat and bones?
I'm a Vet nurse and have seen countless animals come into my practice with blockages from bones, or with bones stuck in the roof of their mouth, causing trauma to the tissue. Just last week a neighbors dog got a lamb shank bone stuck in the back of its mouth, needed to be sedated to remove it and was left with two wounds in his mouth.

Surely safety and balance is the better option? Of course the dogs are going to prefer the raw meat, but as you said.. its like feeding them chocolate, they prefer it so much more. If that was the case we'd all live our lives like that and eat food that we preferred.. and we'd all be 30 stone!

And before anyone says 'vets get commission for all the dry food sold'.. its not into the vets pockets. I for one recommend a good quality complete dry food, Burns, Hills or Royal Canin, and we don't stock these foods.

Anyway thats my rant over!

andreac · 04-05-2010 4:00pm

suraheg wrote: »

Hi guys,

No idea why this 'BARF' diet is becoming so popular!
They're not getting a balanced diet, for one! I know someone who feeds her dogs raw meat only, and claims that its much better for them. What about the bacterial and parasitic infections associated with raw meat? Surely feeding them a balanced diet is much better than feeding them raw meat and bones?
I'm a Vet nurse and have seen countless animals come into my practice with blockages from bones, or with bones stuck in the roof of their mouth, causing trauma to the tissue. Just last week a neighbors dog got a lamb shank bone stuck in the back of its mouth, needed to be sedated to remove it and was left with two wounds in his mouth.

Surely safety and balance is the better option? Of course the dogs are going to prefer the raw meat, but as you said.. its like feeding them chocolate, they prefer it so much more. If that was the case we'd all live our lives like that and eat food that we preferred.. and we'd all be 30 stone!

And before anyone says 'vets get commission for all the dry food sold'.. its not into the vets pockets. I for one recommend a good quality complete dry food, Burns, Hills or Royal Canin, and we don't stock these foods.

Anyway thats my rant over!

Sorry but raw bones can be digested, its the cooked ones that cause problems .

Please read this and realise exactly how BARF works.
http://www.topdog.ie/content.php?151-Raw-BARF-Diet-FAQ

Oh and vets do get commission for selling Hills if they stock it in their practice but they obv dont stock all dry foods so its only for Hills.

suraheg · 04-05-2010 4:07pm

andreac wrote: »

Sorry but raw bones can be digested, its the cooked ones that cause problems .

Please read this and realise exactly how BARF works.
http://www.topdog.ie/content.php?151-Raw-BARF-Diet-FAQ

Oh and vets do get commission for selling Hills if they stock it in their practice but they obv dont stock all dry foods so its only for Hills.

I beg to differ, I've seen LOTS of blockages, in the mouth and all the way along the digestive system, no matter if the bone is cooked or raw! Vets obviously do get commission for everything they sell, as they are a business.. But not all vets sell hills, Some sell burns or royal canin, which they would also get a commission for. I'm sure if raw food was something they thought was good practice to feed your pet.. then they'd stock that too! The vets that sell different types of dry food, think the dry food they sell is the one thats better for your pet.. hence them selling that one. I personally feed my dog Burns as I think its the right fit for her, and I dont have to worry about her getting blockages, salmonella poisoning or parasitic infections!

People really need to get rid of the idea that all vets care about is money, because where I work it's certainly not the case, and I think if people who feed the Barf diet to their pets spent a few weeks in practice seeing all the different cases coming through the vets doors they might think twice about it.

baaaa · 04-05-2010 4:39pm

suraheg wrote: »

Hi guys,

Surely feeding them a balanced diet is much better than feeding them raw meat and bones?
Of course the dogs are going to prefer the raw meat, but as you said.. its like feeding them chocolate, they prefer it so much more. If that was the case we'd all live our lives like that and eat food that we preferred.. and we'd all be 30 stone!

That's a very silly rant.Do you think dogs are genetically geared towards a "balanced" diet?When a wolf eats the leg of a deer he doesn't have it with 2 portions of veg(or cereals which is what most kibble is).
And as for comparing raw meat to chocolate!!Seriously are you for real?
Kibble/dry foods are convenience foods for us,they are easy to pour out of a bag and give the dog hard ****s which are easy to pick up.It's like giving your dog McDonalds,that's why there are so many fat dogs-the vets main kickbacks are actually all the visits that the owner of the sick obese animals must incur.
A balanced diet for a dog does not come from a bag or a can or a factory,what's wrong with you people.

morganafay · 04-05-2010 5:41pm

Why not feed raw meat, offal, and raw veg? Wolves eat roots and stuff, dogs eat grass (not just when sick, they like eating grass). Dogs aren't obligate carnivores and should get some veg in my opinion (small amounts). Anyway dogs love raw veg, my dogs always steal carrots and parsnips from the rabbits/guinea pigs and they used to pick blackberries and eat them! And I think offal is pretty important because some organs contain lots of minerals. Also since herbivores always have a belly full of grass and other plants, carnivores eat their belly, so carnivores (even true carnivores) do get some plant matter in that way. I also think it's probably pretty important to give a variety of meat to BARF dogs right? I've heard of some people who only feed them chicken everyday, and bones, (or another meat) but wouldn't a variety be better? Also the way chicken is more likely than other meats to carry salmonella . . .

I would feed a cat on raw meat and offal and bones only, but with a dog I'd add some veg. (I would prefer to just buy dog food though because it's cheaper and I have like no money.) Though if I ever work with a vet then I might change my mind on bones, since I've heard that blockages are very common. And I've seen a dog with a bone stuck right into the roof of his mouth, it must have been so painful because it was very hard to get out, and who knows how long it was there.

Also, just wondering if people who give their dogs the BARF diet are raw foodists or raw vegans themselves? I'm pretty interested in raw eating, and would do it myself if it wasn't so hard to stick to . . . I might one day (raw vegan, cos ew eating raw meat). And another reason I mightn't feed the raw diet for my pets is because I am vegan . . . I have no problem with them eating meat, but if they can be really healthy (and they are) on the smaller amount of meat that's in dog food, then I dunno . . . I know they need meat and that the BARF diet is probably really healthy, but can we all say we eat that healthily and natural?

suraheg · 04-05-2010 5:49pm

baaaa wrote: »

That's a very silly rant.Do you think dogs are genetically geared towards a "balanced" diet?When a wolf eats the leg of a deer he doesn't have it with 2 portions of veg(or cereals which is what most kibble is).
And as for comparing raw meat to chocolate!!Seriously are you for real?
Kibble/dry foods are convenience foods for us,they are easy to pour out of a bag and give the dog hard ****s which are easy to pick up.It's like giving your dog McDonalds,that's why there are so many fat dogs-the vets main kickbacks are actually all the visits that the owner of the sick obese animals must incur.
A balanced diet for a dog does not come from a bag or a can or a factory,what's wrong with you people.

If you read up higher... i was referring to something someone else said! I wouldnt compare raw meat to chocolate... Kibble and dry food are obviously more convenient that finding a 100% balanaced diet made from many different foods.. Its not like giving your dog mc donalds.. mc donalds is not good for us.. its not a complete food, in which we get our daily nutrients etc.. 'seriously are u for real..' There are sooo many fat dogs because people over feed their animals the kibble or give them human treats as well.. One biscuit to a dog is the same as giving him/her a burger. So you're saying feeding your dog raw meat and bones is satisfactory for all its daily nutritional needs???
Not to mention the implications re parasites and bacterial infections with feeding a raw diet..

morganafay wrote: »

Why not feed raw meat, offal, and raw veg? Wolves eat roots and stuff, dogs eat grass (not just when sick, they like eating grass). Dogs aren't obligate carnivores and should get some veg in my opinion (small amounts). Anyway dogs love raw veg, my dogs always steal carrots and parsnips from the rabbits/guinea pigs and they used to pick blackberries and eat them! And I think offal is pretty important because some organs contain lots of minerals. Also since herbivores always have a belly full of grass and other plants, carnivores eat their belly, so carnivores (even true carnivores) do get some plant matter in that way.

I would feed a cat on raw meat and offal and bones only, but with a dog I'd add some veg. (I would prefer to just buy dog food though because it's cheaper and I have like no money.) Though if I ever work with a vet then I might change my mind on bones, since I've heard that blockages are very common.

Also, just wondering if people who give their dogs the BARF diet are raw foodists or raw vegans themselves? I'm pretty interested in raw eating, and would do it myself if it wasn't so hard to stick to . . . I might one day (raw vegan, cos ew eating raw meat).

come on! We've domesticated these animals so theyre not wild.. why turn around now and undo all that!! Its natural for the animals to hunt and find their prey, and eat all of them.. not just the meat. Its also natural for animals to die at about 2/3 years of age in the wild.. and to have high parasitic worm burdens, to have fleas and mange. Why just say oh lets feed raw meat cause its natural.. Sure throw them out in the wild and see how long your great dane/cavalier/pug lasts in the wild!

morganafay · 04-05-2010 6:02pm

suraheg wrote: »

come on! We've domesticated these animals so theyre not wild.. why turn around now and undo all that!! Its natural for the animals to hunt and find their prey, and eat all of them.. not just the meat. Its also natural for animals to die at about 2/3 years of age in the wild.. and to have high parasitic worm burdens, to have fleas and mange. Why just say oh lets feed raw meat cause its natural.. Sure throw them out in the wild and see how long your great dane/cavalier/pug lasts in the wild!

I know they're domesticated but I still think it's probably healthier to feed raw food (if you do it right and get a balance). Just like it's better for us to eat raw food. Even though we've been eating cooked food for a long time, I still think natural food is better. I know they wouldn't last long in the wild though

Though I'm not saying dog food is bad, I feed my dogs dry dog food, and not even good quality dog food, because I'm an unemployed student . . . but I still think my dogs are well looked after and not neglected because they don't get the best food ever, they're very healthy.

Graces7 · 04-05-2010 6:03pm

Fascinating thread; thank you.

And, re surviving in the wild, you would be amazed how swiftly the old instincts will kick in if needed.

We feed mostly raw; we have a butcher who saves "scraps" for us, ie the trimmings etc which these days we refuse to eat, and chicken backs.

NB would never give best steak or mince or fillet of chicken. Apart from cost, it is not the best for them.

And we add suitable scraps including also vegetables cooked with meat.

Chicken wings also.

And a little kibble if needed; and eg dry pasta.

The dogs are in fine form, love their food and thrive.

As pensioners, cost is an issue of course.
And it takes no longer really...

Interesting that our collie who was half starved for years, eats nettles ever day. It is probably how she survived.

baaaa · 04-05-2010 6:13pm

If you're gonna feed your dog a raw diet then it must still be balanced from a range of raw foods,veg plays a very small role.
It's cheaper to feed the raw diet-just a pain about once a month when we bag and freeze the individual servings.
When bones are cooked they can splinter and be dangerous,especially chicken bones.There seems to be a lot of misinformation about this on the web so I asked the blue cross vet and he said raw bones good,cooked bad.
It takes my dog about 20 mins to polish off ribs and bits of heart etc and gives him great stimulation and excercise.
Why would anyone think a bowl of dry cereal shapes is comparable is beyond me.
If you want a healthy dog(and this does not mean one who eats a lot or does hard poos)then don't feed it from a bag.
If you want a fat,lazy dog with bad breath and health problems then go with the factory dog food.The vets will be happy to see you and oh so puzzled as to the cause of it's ill health.

baaaa · 04-05-2010 6:28pm

suraheg wrote: »

So you're saying feeding your dog raw meat and bones is satisfactory for all its daily nutritional needs???
Not to mention the implications re parasites and bacterial infections with feeding a raw diet..

Feeding them a raw diet correctly will provide all nutritional needs,however there is also more to food than nutrition,otherwise we'd all be eating the "food" sachets that astronauts use.
There are implications re parasites and bacteria when your dog smells anothers bum or goes for a walk in the park,the thinking is that the raw food fed dog has a stronger immune system than the convenience (kibble) fed dog and is thus able to deal with parasites and bacterias better.

morganafay · 04-05-2010 8:01pm

baaaa wrote: »

If you want a fat,lazy dog with bad breath and health problems then go with the factory dog food.The vets will be happy to see you and oh so puzzled as to the cause of it's ill health.

I really do agree that raw natural food must be better for dogs, but just wanted to say that none of my dogs who eat cheap dry dog food are fat, lazy, have bad breath or any health problems. They're 5, 7 and 8 year old Cavaliers with no health problems ever in their life. They also get a few scraps some evenings. And my Springer Spaniel lived on mostly scraps and some dry dog food all his life and never had any health problems and died at 14 or 15. I really don't think their food is great and would feed them better if I could afford it, but they're still really healthy.

CreedonsDogDayc · 04-05-2010 8:27pm

Suraheg, being a vet nurse, you must be aware that a dog has a stomach pH of 1-2, while a humans stomach's pH is about 5. This means that the acidic environment of a dogs stomach is not a great place for bacteria to multiply.

Also, you must know that a dogs digestive tract is much shorter than a humans, and hence, any bacteria, salmonella etc. that a dog ingests leaves the dog much quicker than in a human.

People who make the choice to feed their dog BARF do not make this decision lightly, they do a lot of research into it first. I plan to feed my dog BARF in the future, im up the walls at the moment so when i have the time i will do lots of research and make the transition.

If someone chooses to feed their dog BARF and they do not see vast improvements Im sure they will change back because they are looking for what is best for their dog.

By the way, my vet recommends BARF.

TooManyDogs · 04-05-2010 8:32pm

morganafay wrote: »

Also, just wondering if people who give their dogs the BARF diet are raw foodists or raw vegans themselves?

Nope, cooked food for me and hubby, raw for the 6 dogs! And I'm vegetarian so it's gas to see the looks on people's faces when they see my shopping trolley in the supermarket (I need 2kg meat every day!), ask what I'm cooking that I need so much meat for and I tell them I'm veggie!!

I swapped mine to raw food 18 months ago and am delighted, they're doing fantastically. I was becoming more and more uncomfortable with feeding them dry food cos of the additives and preservatives in it, don't like to eat processed food myself but was feeding it to them. So made the switch and they've never been happier, they love dinner time now!

A friend of mine switched too and it's made a massive difference to her dogs, one was a very ill great dane who was on 3 or 4 medications a day, and now is off them all (obviously under vet supervision) and vet puts it down to there being nothing to be allergic to in the food, it's all natural.

I know the risks of bones getting stuck in their throats, but they've an equal risk of choking on tennis balls and sticks while out playing. It's easy to prevent choking on bones - either chop up the bones small, or buy bigger pieces of meat the dog can't just swallow and it forces them to chew it properly. Obviously there'll always be the one dog someone knows who died of bones but then there's also the one dog someone knows who died of drinking too much water so you've got to personally weigh up the risks for your dog

morganafay · 05-05-2010 5:38am

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Nope, cooked food for me and hubby, raw for the 6 dogs! And I'm vegetarian so it's gas to see the looks on people's faces when they see my shopping trolley in the supermarket (I need 2kg meat every day!), ask what I'm cooking that I need so much meat for and I tell them I'm veggie!!

I swapped mine to raw food 18 months ago and am delighted, they're doing fantastically. I was becoming more and more uncomfortable with feeding them dry food cos of the additives and preservatives in it, don't like to eat processed food myself but was feeding it to them. So made the switch and they've never been happier, they love dinner time now!

I'd like to feed my dogs natural food too, I feel guilty for giving them horrible cheap dry food

Well at least my rabbits and guinea pigs eat healthily!

I was just wondering because you hear some people saying that they feed their dog really expensive healthy food but then you see them eating a bag of sweets themselves and a bottle of coke.

hadook · 05-05-2010 10:10pm

I've started looking into raw food again as my Dane ended up in the emergency vets a couple of weeks ago with GDV. Studies have proven that raw fed Danes are significantly less likely to bloat but I fed kibble for the ease of prep etc.

TooManyDogs · 06-05-2010 9:27am

Here's the Great Dane I was talking about, the 'after' photo doesnt do her justice, she's looking fantastic, full coat and has put on a good coverage of weight.

http://www.dtail.org/articles/23-dana

Jennyfer · 06-05-2010 11:12pm

Skillie wrote: »

Orijen is excellent but the Newf just does not like it, we add allsorts to it to get him to eat it but only get short term success.

I had same problem with my dog, I mixed the Orijen with some natural pro-biotic yoghurt (which apparently all dogs love, I know mine does anyway!! and its really good for them) and she polished off every bowl. Gradually took out the yoghurt and she has no probs eating it now. Has done her the world of good, Im delighted with how well she's come on.

Only natural pro-biotic yoghurt though, anything else will just run straight through! :eek:

Steph2010 · 13-05-2010 3:28pm

:)Hi Hadook, I changed over to raw a couple of weeks ago after researching as well. found a website www.foodforpets.ie and was able to get the natures menu frozen nuggets in one of the local petshops. Working out very well at the moment with my german shep and westie.

Skillie · 13-05-2010 8:49pm

Jennyfer wrote: »

I had same problem with my dog, I mixed the Orijen with some natural pro-biotic yoghurt (which apparently all dogs love, I know mine does anyway!! and its really good for them) and she polished off every bowl. Gradually took out the yoghurt and she has no probs eating it now. Has done her the world of good, Im delighted with how well she's come on.

Only natural pro-biotic yoghurt though, anything else will just run straight through! :eek:

Afraid we tried every trick in the book with the dry food and none worked long term. Orijen is an excellent food which is loosely based on the barf principle.

We've had our 2 on the raw food diet now since october I think and they are thriving. They are never at the vet now (except the nef has dreaded joint probs since early on, pre barf so don't go blaming that) no more ear infections, upset tummys etc etc, great breath, teeth, coats and their poop is so much smaller and better formed. Plus they love it so much and they are very happy dogs. Our retriever just turned 6 and shes never acted so young and bubbly.

We didn't take the leap lightly did a lot of research and trial and error and I don't think I have as balanced a diet as they do to be honest. It’s a lot of work we take an hour to go and but it all a week and an hour to chop, weigh and bag it per dog per meal per day. As for bacteria great post above about dogs stomach ph and digestive tract. Plus freezing it all and defrosting it the night before kills a lot of the bacteria. They are never ill and the chew the bones to smitherines in no time they don't swallow the bone they love breaking it down.

Not to mention the other winners in feeding this diet the majority of this food is locally produced and sold so benefits local business and isn't flown in from around the world (for those carbon conscious people). Plus we know exactly what we are feeding our dogs and see the results. Our vet isn't a BARF vet but was open minded to hear how it was going what we were feeding and gave us his full blessing stating the dogs are in great shape and feels we have researched and thought about what we feed them very carefully and are seeing the rewards.
Their weekly meals are currently:

Breakfast Mon to Sat: mince meat & veggie balls (with blended cellery, carrott and brocolli) and some green tripe on the side!
Breakfast Sunday: Tuna in oil followed by a probiotic natural yoghurt mixed with 1 raw egg
Dinner 7 days a week: Raw chicken wings, drumsticks and thighs
Dessert: Frozen fruit cakes; consisting of blended apple, mandarin and bananna

Very unbalanced!!

paulacork · 14-05-2010 8:44am

Steph2010 wrote: »

:)Hi Hadook, I changed over to raw a couple of weeks ago after researching as well. found a website www.foodforpets.ie and was able to get the natures menu frozen nuggets in one of the local petshops. Working out very well at the moment with my german shep and westie.

Hi Steph2010,
Welcome to feeding raw and hope it works out well for you. The Natures Menu food you mentioned is also available in Cork and I was able to locate it in Sullys Petshop in Ballincollig and Blackpool.
A BIG improvement on trying to source in Supermarkets and much more convenient!

smokin ace · 14-05-2010 9:04am

i have a greyhound(ex-racer) and a lurcher (whippet greyhound cross) and i feed them cows tails and veg and they are if fantastic condition(skin coat eyes teeth)and they are full of energy i get the tails from the local butcher for €1 each and the veg in lidl for very little but if you do decide to go that way you have to watch how much you give them because they will get over weight quite quickly if given to much cow tail

BARF/Raw Food Diets

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