Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Catholic Priests could dissapear from Ireland in two to three decades.

Options
  • 03-07-2009 10:46pm
    #1
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭


    Priests “Will have effectively disappeared in Ireland in two to three decades,’’ a prominent West of Ireland priest has said.

    It was once said that it was a privilege to have a family member take up holy orders, We had several in both my parents families permanently attached to the RC Church including a bishop. This has now completely changed in my generation.

    With the average age of priests getting older and the serious lack of new devotions something drastic must be done. Would the abolishment of celibacy among the priesthood encourage new recruits?

    Article on the subject in todays Irish Times
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0703/1224249968244.html


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Priests “Will have effectively disappeared in Ireland in two to three decades,’’ a prominent West of Ireland priest has said.

    It was once said that it was a privilege to have a family member take up holy orders, We had several in both my parents families permanently attached to the RC Church including a bishop. This has now completely changed in my generation.

    With the average age of priests getting older and the serious lack of new devotions something drastic must be done. Would the abolishment of celibacy among the priesthood encourage new recruits?

    Article on the subject in todays Irish Times
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0703/1224249968244.html

    It'd be terrible now if they went the way of the Leprachauns....


  • Options
    #3
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    African priests ftw!


  • Options
    #4
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Húrin wrote: »
    African priests ftw!

    Indeed, we could have the slightly ironic outcome that after sending so many missionaries to spread the good word in continents like Africa, they are now doing the same to the spiritually confused masses in the West.

    Maybe it's not all that unusual after all. I believe that most of the new Pentecostal churches in Ireland have a very strong proportion of African born leaders.

    More power to them!


  • Options
    #5
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    I think natural selection will take its course.


  • Options
    #6
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    I think natural selection will take its course.

    The capitalists will eat the priests.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    I think celibacy is a huge stumbling block. There's no reason that a priest would be less effective as a priest, married with kids living a more contented life. And not only that, he'd be better equipped to give pre-marital courses and to give sermons on home/family life.


  • Options
    #8
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,517 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    Fanny Cradock wrote: »
    Indeed, we could have the slightly ironic outcome that after sending so many missionaries to spread the good word in continents like Africa, they are now doing the same to the spiritually confused masses in the West.

    Maybe it's not all that unusual after all. I believe that most of the new Pentecostal churches in Ireland have a very strong proportion of African born leaders.

    More power to them!

    A sort of religious feedback loop. I just wonder if its a positive or negative loop?


  • Options
    #9
    Overblood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Overblood


    Fanny Cradock wrote: »
    Indeed, we could have the slightly ironic outcome that after sending so many missionaries to spread the good word in continents like Africa, they are now doing the same to the spiritually confused masses in the West.

    And the only way to cure spiritual confusion is to believe in Jesus Christ I'm sure.

    Celibacy is obvoiusly the main deterrent, but would it really solve the problem of declining priest numbers if they allowed them to marry?


  • Options
    #10
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Húrin wrote: »
    The capitalists will eat the priests.

    Religions with the meme of celibacy for priests will die out


  • Options
    #11
    TheManWho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭TheManWho


    Do you really think that falling priest recruitment is because potentials are worryied that they wont get some to put it lightly. People just don't care or believe it as much as they used to. Sure you have probobly sustained the numbers of official Chistians but the quality is just not there anymore. People are more educated now, youngsters especially, the internet is there to teach them all of the possibilitys that were'nt there fifty years ago, and those possibilitys are just more appealing than priesthood, abolishing celibacy doesn't change anything.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,517 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    Certainly there are vastly more alternatives today. Most kids today go onto third level instead of just one in a most families. This coupled with significantly improved economic conditions means that the "fear a god" mentality is a thing of the past.


  • Options
    #13
    fasterkitten
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭fasterkitten


    It's simple. There's no power or automatic respectability gained from entering the priesthood now. And that must have been the motivation for a large number of people entering the clergy.


  • Options
    #14
    Phototoxin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Phototoxin


    I think its a multitude of factors - certainly the lack of a family means it can be lonely but so can lots of other things. The lack of it being a 'vaiable option' for a 'bright but poor lad' since any plebicite can go to uni now (not a bad thing btw!) I'm sure the sex scandals didn't help, the general decline in religion, an apparantly wishy washy church, people question things more whereas you essentially sign your life over to an instituion. Many negative factors tbh.


  • Options
    #15
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    I agree. I wouldn't be so sure about celibacy being the big stumbling block. For years the number of priests here was kept artificially high by being a choice for a lot of men who wouldn't be able to support themselves otherwise.


  • Options
    #16
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    I remember wanting to be a priest when I was fifteen or sixteen and celibacy was one of the many stumbling blocks.

    And I'm afraid it wasn't a fear of "not getting any" it was a realization of the sheer unnaturalness of such a vow. That in turn got me thinking a lot harder about lots of things that had bothered me since I was old enough to learn and understand my religion in any kind of signifigant way.

    On Topic: I don't see the prpblem really. I mean, if someone is a true believer than they won't be seeing a black guy, they'll be seeing a priest of their faith. If a black guy standing at the pulpit is enough to cause attendance figures to drop further then I don't think those people could possibly have been true believers anyway.


  • Options
    #17
    glaston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭glaston


    There could be a lot of uncertainty when all the priests are gone, I mean at the moment we know who all the paedos are and where they live.
    This is way better than England where the tabloids have to publish their names and addresses.


  • Options
    #18
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    Overblood wrote: »
    And the only way to cure spiritual confusion is to believe in Jesus Christ I'm sure.

    It's one of the ways! Am I allowed say that, O priests of reason?


  • Options
    #19
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    Nevore wrote: »
    On Topic: I don't see the prpblem really. I mean, if someone is a true believer than they won't be seeing a black guy, they'll be seeing a priest of their faith. If a black guy standing at the pulpit is enough to cause attendance figures to drop further then I don't think those people could possibly have been true believers anyway.

    True, but has the Catholic church ever cared much about whether its members are true believers?


  • Options
    #20
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Húrin wrote: »
    True, but has the Catholic church ever cared much about whether its members are true believers?
    True enough.

    Actually, if the African priest was ala Tommy Tiernans sketch, then I'd probably go to church every now and then. Oratory is just so much more fun when delivered in a broad west african accent.


  • Options
    #21
    TheManWho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭TheManWho


    Bringing priests in from africa is wrong in my opinion. If a religion is going to be for the good of the people then it should be sustained by the people, if it can't be then the people don't want it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Nevore wrote: »
    True enough.

    Actually, if the African priest was ala Tommy Tiernans sketch, then I'd probably go to church every now and then. Oratory is just so much more fun when delivered in a broad west african accent.
    its one of the fun things about the american gospel churches,praise god and have a good sing song-forget the latin /and incense amen


  • Options
    #23
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    getz wrote: »
    its one of the fun things about the american gospel churches,praise god and have a good sing song-forget the latin /and incense amen
    Was dragged to the gospel nights in the ... Rathgar church? Dunno, near the Swan Centre in Rathmines anyway, really didn't find it remotely interesting.

    The Tridentine Mass though? I'd love to attend even just one, to see what they're like. Latin ftw. :mad:


  • Options
    #24
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    I think natural selection will take its course.
    You're seriously suggesting that they might develop gills?


  • Options
    #25
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    TheManWho wrote: »
    Bringing priests in from africa is wrong in my opinion. If a religion is going to be for the good of the people then it should be sustained by the people, if it can't be then the people don't want it.

    If the people don't want it they won't go to church. But those who do go might need a bit of help for a while.
    getz wrote: »
    its one of the fun things about the american gospel churches,praise god and have a good sing song-forget the latin /and incense amen
    The American Gospel churches are Protestants! *gasp*


  • Options
    #26
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,194 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Nevore wrote: »

    On Topic: I don't see the prpblem really. I mean, if someone is a true believer than they won't be seeing a black guy, they'll be seeing a priest of their faith. If a black guy standing at the pulpit is enough to cause attendance figures to drop further then I don't think those people could possibly have been true believers anyway.

    I think you're absolutley right there, but i also think a lot of people will find it hard to look past the colour of the priests skin. I think it's a sad truth that a great portion of this country is still quite racist, I'd go so far to say it's inherant.

    If they abolished celibecy i think a lot more people would see it as a viable, and in fairness, pretty handy career option. :pac:


  • Options
    #27
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    I know the PP in a local parish to my home place is a Nigerian. Have been a couple of times. tbh I loved hearing the mass in his accent, made for such a change. But isn't that what Catholicism is about......... doesn't matter where in the world you're from a Roman Catholic is a Roman Catholic, be the priest from Brazil, Poland, Australia, Japan or Nigeria.

    Actually it could be tommy tiernan himself if you close your eyes


  • Options
    #28
    Bduffman
    Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Bduffman


    Overblood wrote: »
    Celibacy is obvoiusly the main deterrent, but would it really solve the problem of declining priest numbers if they allowed them to marry?

    I think if two priests love each other, why shouldn't they be allowed to marry?:pac:


  • Options
    #29
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Priests “Will have effectively disappeared in Ireland in two to three decades,’’ a prominent West of Ireland priest has said.
    Well, Scotland closed its last training school for catholic priests last week, so it's reasonable to assume that something similar could happen her in due course.

    More here:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/scotland_video_and_audio/8109103.stm


  • Options
    #30
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    robindch wrote: »
    Well, Scotland closed its last training school for catholic priests last week, so it's reasonable to assume that something similar could happen her in due course.

    More here:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/scotland_video_and_audio/8109103.stm

    I expect there would be much more resilience here, given that Scotland was a primarily Protestant country anyway.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Bduffman
    Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Bduffman


    Húrin wrote: »
    I expect there would be much more resilience here, given that Scotland was a primarily Protestant country anyway.

    Possibly, but new priests are still dwindling. Its informative to go & have a look at the hall in the only seminary left in Ireland, Maynooth (its a long story as to why I was there).
    There are photos of every class going back several decades. The ones from the 50s have hundreds of photos of graduates while the ones from the last few years have as few as 4 or 5.

    There are approximately 70 seminarians at the moment. As most study for 7 years, thats only 10 new priests every year - and that assuming they all last the course (unlikely as theres a significant drop out rate).

    Basically thats not enough to replace retiring / dying priests.


Advertisement