Garda Earns €80,990 in overtime!

Hillel · 22-02-2009 3:06pm #1

Yet another example of inadequate goverance and lack of cost control in the public sector. One Mayo officer earned €80,990 in overtime in 2008. The total garda overtime bill for 2008 was €113m.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5781039.ece
The message has to go out loud and clear that this level of profligate waste is NOT acceptable. All of us are already paying the cost - and will shortly pay a lot more. There are options readily available, all that is lacking is the political will to implement them. There are THREE "Ministers of State" (Barry Andrews, Conor Lenihan, and John Moloney), in addition to Minister Dermot Ahern, with an interest in this area. (http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Our_ministers) Lets assume that Dermot is fully occupied with Equality and Law Reform. I know, maybe not the highest priority right now, but, lets be fair and give him the benefit of the doubt.) Surely, Barry, Conor or John could find some time to take a look at this. (Or maybe its all a false alarm and the country really can afford the €113m bill!)

If this were the private sector this figure would be causing alarm right up to director level. The line manager, and others in the chain, could expect hard questions as to why this occured. Suitable measures would be implemented to ensure no recurrance. Ah but, this is public sector la, la, land. Perofrmance bonuses were probably handed out for the extra productivity! Next time you see Dermot, Barry, Conor or John ask them about this. Demand action, demonstarble, visible, effective action. If they mutter about the difficulties,etc., tell them that this is what WE pay them for. Suggest that if they can't address this it is time that they step dowm as ministers/ministers of state. (At least we'd get some saving.)

Mena · 22-02-2009 3:09pm

I'm not sure where the problem is here? He worked the hours, and was paid for it. Are you suggesting he not be paid for overtime, or that no overtime be worked?

dave-higgz · 22-02-2009 3:14pm

Mena wrote: »

I'm not sure where the problem is here? He worked the hours, and was paid for it. Are you suggesting he not be paid for overtime, or that no overtime be worked?

+1

He's obviously devoting his life to the force. However I think a reduction in overtime or a cap on total overtime income needs to be brought in. While he, and all other gardai deserve good overtime pay it's money that the public can't afford to pay in these times.

yoshytoshy · 22-02-2009 3:15pm

Mena wrote: »

I'm not sure where the problem is here? He worked the hours, and was paid for it. Are you suggesting he not be paid for overtime, or that no overtime be worked?

80,000 euro overtime ? ,that is an absolutely astonishing amount of money for one year on overtime.

You could recruit at least one more garda for that ,what a monstrousity.

mike65 · 22-02-2009 3:16pm

Was he detailed to protect Berverly Cooper?

FTA69 · 22-02-2009 3:21pm

You could cut back on the overtime bill substantially if you didn't have carloads of Special Branch detectives engaging in low-level harrasment at Republican meetings and commemorations.

pirelli · 22-02-2009 3:23pm

Hillel wrote: »

Yet another example of inadequate goverance and lack of cost control in the public sector. One Mayo officer earned €80,990 in overtime in 2008. The total garda overtime bill for 2008 was €113m.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5781039.ece
The message has to go out loud and clear that this level of profligate waste is NOT acceptable. All of us are already paying the cost - and will shortly pay a lot more. There are options readily available, all that is lacking is the political will to implement them. There are THREE "Ministers of State" (Barry Andrews, Conor Lenihan, and John Moloney), in addition to Minister Dermot Ahern, with an interest in this area. (http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Our_ministers) Lets assume that Dermot is fully occupied with Equality and Law Reform. I know, maybe not the highest priority right now, but, lets be fair and give him the benefit of the doubt.) Surely, Barry, Conor or John could find some time to take a look at this. (Or maybe its all a false alarm and the country really can afford the €113m bill!)

If this were the private sector this figure would be causing alarm right up to director level. The line manager, and others in the chain, could expect hard questions as to why this occured. Suitable measures would be implemented to ensure no recurrance. Ah but, this is public sector la, la, land. Perofrmance bonuses were probably handed out for the extra productivity! Next time you see Dermot, Barry, Conor or John ask them about this. Demand action, demonstarble, visible, effective action. If they mutter about the difficulties,etc., tell them that this is what WE pay them for. Suggest that if they can't address this it is time that they step dowm as ministers/ministers of state. (At least we'd get some saving.)

If he was solving murders and researching the forensic evidence investigating other cases then he deserves to be paid for his hard work. My question would be what were we paying for:

Was it chasing motor convictions and hanging around state buildings or doing croke park.

We should simply only pay this type of overtime for valuable work and should not pay high overtime for work that an obvious few gardai could be employed to do or even not pay as much overtime for simply duties of presence in
functions etc.

Overtime for working on crime cases such as theft etc.. should be rewarded whilst croke park and other Nixers must half the rate of overtime and or we should re introduce the Garda community project and enlist citizens to help the gardai so that we can focus the gardai we have on specifically crime.

With on board computers in the traffic corp vehicles and the computerised penalty point system, the gardai should not clock up overtime on these tasks.

Overtime is good if properly used.

wow sierra · 22-02-2009 3:24pm

OP I am amazed that even after all the revelations of the last 6 months or so you have such faith in the ability of the sainted private sector to spot innapropriate financial activity.

Next time a drug dealer gives the two fingers on TV or 10 people are killed in one weekend on our roads, will you still be looking for a cut in Garda overtime.

Boston · 22-02-2009 3:26pm

yoshytoshy wrote: »

80,000 euro overtime ? ,that is an absolutely astonishing amount of money for one year on overtime.

You could recruit at least one more garda for that ,what a monstrousity.

Ironically recruitment is scaled back to save money. Same situation exists in the prison service. When you need a minimum level of service and you're not able to meet it from existing resources nor allowed to hire new staff, overtime is your only solution. I don't begrudge the Garda in question, but rather the system of management.

yoshytoshy · 22-02-2009 3:28pm

No one would have a problem with garda overtime. But if it's excessive across the board ,then more garda are needed.
If anything it's not fair to expect so much of a workforce.

edit : agreed boston

Daroxtar · 22-02-2009 3:30pm

FTA69 wrote: »

You could cut back on the overtime bill substantially if you didn't have carloads of Special Branch detectives engaging in low-level harrasment at Republican meetings and commemorations.

Observing known criminals birdwatchers is hardly harassment.

Boston · 22-02-2009 3:31pm

pirelli wrote: »

If he was solving murders and researching the forensic evidence investigating other cases then he deserves to be paid for his hard work. My question would be what were we paying for:

Was it chasing motor convictions and hanging around state buildings or doing croke park.

We should simply only pay this type of overtime for valuable work and should not pay high overtime for work that an obvious few gardai could be employed to do or even not pay as much overtime for simply duties of presence in
functions etc.

Overtime for working on crime cases such as theft etc.. should be rewarded whilst croke park and other Nixers must half the rate of overtime and or we should re introduce the Garda community project and enlist citizens to help the gardai so that we can focus the gardai we have on specifically crime.

With on board computers in the traffic corp vehicles and the computerised penalty point system, the gardai should not clock up overtime on these tasks.

Overtime is good if properly used.

Erm whether they're standing on the side of the road or solving crime, they're still on the job and should be paid for it. If your boss tells you to do some bull**** assignment during work hours would you turn around and say "actually, I only want half pay". Additionally "Nixers" more then pay for themselves so why should the Garda officer get his/her fair payment for services rendered.

randomer · 22-02-2009 3:38pm

Boston wrote: »

Erm whether they're standing on the side of the road or solving crime, they're still on the job and should be paid for it. If your boss tells you to do some bull**** assignment during work hours would you turn around and say "actually, I only want half pay". Additionally "Nixers" more then pay for themselves so why should the Garda officer get his/her fair payment for services rendered.

Woud not be better to employ two additional Gardai?

Also, is there not legislation to restrict the number of hours that an individual can work?

pawrick · 22-02-2009 3:39pm

randomer wrote: »

Woud not be better to employ two additional Gardai?

Also, is there not legislation to restrict the number of hours that an individual can work?

there is a freeze on recruitment as far as I know in most areas of the public service.

randomer · 22-02-2009 4:04pm

pawrick wrote: »

there is a freeze on recruitment as far as I know in most areas of the public service.

Really?

But surely the purpose of a recruitment freeze would be to manage costs? There must be a more cost effective solution rather than 113 million in overtime, or is Garda overtime considered sacrosanct?

randomer · 22-02-2009 4:07pm

How many Gardai are there? I remember hearing before that there were 12,000. An overtime bill of 113 million means that the average overtime is over 9k??? Am I missing something here?

*Honey* · 22-02-2009 4:14pm

randomer wrote: »

Woud not be better to employ two additional Gardai?

Also, is there not legislation to restrict the number of hours that an individual can work?

Yes, the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 allows an employee to work up to a max of 48 hours in a week. I'm not sure if Gardai are exempt from this (doctors are, I think).

randomer · 22-02-2009 4:22pm

*Honey* wrote: »

Yes, the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 allows an employee to work up to a max of 48 hours in a week. I'm not sure if Gardai are exempt from this (doctors are, I think).

Thanks. If they are not exempt, and the garda in question is doing just 48 hours per week, that would mean that he would have to be earning more than €130 per hour overtime?

joseph brand · 22-02-2009 4:31pm

AFAIK, the Garda are speedy when it comes to taking the names of 10yr olds playing football in estates, due to ball entering garden. (happened me)

They will also take down details of stolen goods, that they have no hope of recovering.

I'm not against the Gards but 80K seems like a lot of cash for a civil servant, or at least it used to???

By the by, it costs 80K per/yr to house convicts up the north (tv prog last week). Cops AND robbers cost 80,000 a yr. Nice. Do they somehow cancel out? :rolleyes:

therecklessone · 22-02-2009 4:35pm

randomer wrote: »

Really?

But surely the purpose of a recruitment freeze would be to manage costs? There must be a more cost effective solution rather than 113 million in overtime, or is Garda overtime considered sacrosanct?

Overtime is one of the cheapest forms of labour available, particularly if overtime is not included in reasonable pay for pension purposes.

cossworxenergy · 22-02-2009 4:37pm

The Garda probably deserved it. Depending on what field he was involved with most proably murder investigations. Do you know the hours and commitment that go int that and the personal effect it has.!? I doubt it. I do cos my father did it for 30 years throughout Ireland and it no mean task. I hope he spends it well fair dues to him for his commitment!!

Boston · 22-02-2009 5:05pm

randomer wrote: »

Woud not be better to employ two additional Gardai?

Also, is there not legislation to restrict the number of hours that an individual can work?

therecklessone wrote: »

Overtime is one of the cheapest forms of labour available, particularly if overtime is not included in reasonable pay for pension purposes.

There you have the other argument randomer. A new garda officer represents an investment for the next 20 - 30 years.

P. Breathnach · 22-02-2009 5:10pm

The Garda is based in Mayo. I suspect a connection with the Shell to Sea campaign.

cossworxenergy · 22-02-2009 5:12pm

He was actually looking after the contracters at the corrib gas field. So he put in the hours. Fair dues.

D-Generate · 22-02-2009 5:14pm

Surely with the hours he would work a week to clock that up he couldn't be running at the same efficiency as if two Gardai had been employed which they could have been on his salary. Its not his fault and fair play to him for the commitment he has towards his job but its terrible mismanagement that they would prefer to overwork one man instead of employing two men.

P. Breathnach · 22-02-2009 5:21pm

D-Generate wrote: »

... one man instead of employing two men.

Anything wrong with women?

nice_guy80 · 22-02-2009 5:38pm

if he was working on the Sheel to Sea protests down in Belmullet I'm not surprised

most of that bill will be paid by Shell anyway

OhNoYouDidn't · 22-02-2009 5:59pm

randomer wrote: »

Really?

But surely the purpose of a recruitment freeze would be to manage costs? There must be a more cost effective solution rather than 113 million in overtime, or is Garda overtime considered sacrosanct?

Are you seriously trying to suggest that you are surprised that in the middle of a hiring freeze overtime doesn't increase?

I bet the OP still demands a Gard response before the phone is put down

Hillel · 22-02-2009 6:15pm

Mena wrote: »

I'm not sure where the problem is here?

An overtime bill of €80,990 for one individual, regardless of circumstances, should raise alarm bells. In current circumstances a total overtime bill of €113m is way too high. The issue is not with the individuals getting the overtime. Rather it is with the management of the force. Either there are insufficient resources or resources are being mismanaged. In either case corrective action is necessary. Ultimately, that responsibility lies with government – hence my first post.

Mena wrote: »

I'm not sure where the problem is here? He worked the hours, and was paid for it. Are you suggesting he not be paid for overtime

Of course not. Neither was this thread intended as an attack on rank and file members of the Garda Siochana.

pirelli wrote: »

If he was solving murders and researching the forensic evidence investigating other cases then he deserves to be paid for his hard work.

He is entitled to be paid for his work, hard, or otherwise. My concern is not with any individual Garda, rather it is with Garda HR, top-level management and both their political masters.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to suggest that you are surprised that in the middle of a hiring freeze overtime doesn't increase?

No, I’m not a bit surprised - in the absence of strong governance and tight controls, overtime always increases. I am asking what steps are being taken, at top-level management and political level, to curtail overtime through efficient resource management and whatever other steps are necessary. This is not rocket science, across industry we are all being asked to do “more with less”.

FTA69 · 22-02-2009 6:31pm

Daroxtar wrote: »

Observing known criminals birdwatchers is hardly harassment.

The small Republican group Éirigi gets carloads of Branchmen at their events, as well as them tailing members and engaging in general harassment (stop and search etc), this group has absolutely no connection to any armed group so why the need to waste taxpayers money to pay detectives to sit around in Ford Mondeos all day?

OhNoYouDidn't · 22-02-2009 7:12pm

FTA69 wrote: »

The small Republican group Éirigi gets carloads of Branchmen at their events, as well as them tailing members and engaging in general harassment (stop and search etc), this group has absolutely no connection to any armed group so why the need to waste taxpayers money to pay detectives to sit around in Ford Mondeos all day?

Templemores finest will fight tooth and nail to keep their policitcal policing role - even if its entirely unneccescary

Garda Earns €80,990 in overtime!

Comments