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"Hosted" forums and boards.ie

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  • 12-12-2008 8:35pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭


    I can't make the distinction :confused:
    Who are they "hosted" for ? I see there's a band forum and a few radio stations which I can sort of understand but what about the rest of the categories like Games, Society, Recreation etc ?

    Who moderates them and what rules apply. I see that the warning about unmentionables are in each forum and all pages are on boards.ie ... so what's different ?
    Post edited by Shield on


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭ozt9vdujny3srf


    The hosted forums came about in a couple of ways.

    One was communities that already existed that wanted Boards to host a forum for them. They used to be called community forums.

    Another was forums that the powers that be felt wouldn't have enough traffic or interest to warrant Boards.ie board initially, but let a user set up a Hosted board to see if the Boards community would take to it.

    Another again is groups of friends or regular boards users setting up private forums on the boards website.

    I'm sure there are more ways that they have come about but thats been my experience of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Someone beat me to this topic I see.
    All seems a bit mad to be honest. To the casual user (me for example) there is no distinction between "normal" forums and "hosted" forums. They are all under the boards.ie brand. The same rules/standards should apply. The muppetry that was displayed earlier by that mod in the conspiracy forum reflects on boards.ie. If a new user who stumbled into the conspiracy forum and saw the behaviour of the mod, he could assume that is the standard of modding here and not bother with boards.ie.
    I assume the ultimate aim of boards.ie these days is to make money and increase user base. Things like this incident may be seem like trivial issues to some people and may be dismissed as such, but having hosted boards with different "standards" and "rules" seems doesn't seem like a good idea.
    Simply make them proper boards.ie forums and take control of them. Boards.ie is a business after all and you simply can't wash your hands of something that is seen as part of your brand by saying that is just hosted and we don't have any say in what goes on in there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Ludo wrote: »
    Someone beat me to this topic I see.
    All seems a bit mad to be honest. To the casual user (me for example) there is no distinction between "normal" forums and "hosted" forums. They are all under the boards.ie brand. The same rules/standards should apply. The muppetry that was displayed earlier by that mod in the conspiracy forum reflects on boards.ie. If a new user who stumbled into the conspiracy forum and saw the behaviour of the mod, he could assume that is the standard of modding here and not bother with boards.ie.
    I assume the ultimate aim of boards.ie these days is to make money and increase user base. Things like this incident may be seem like trivial issues to some people and may be dismissed as such, but having hosted boards with different "standards" and "rules" seems doesn't seem like a good idea.
    Simply make them proper boards.ie forums and take control of them.

    While I did become curious about what the "Hosted" category is because of that incident there's no use this thread dealing with it as it's being discussed elsewhere.
    But like my right honourable friend here, I am too quite confused. I see boards.ie, I see forums and I assume they're all under the same umbrella
    The hosted forums came about in a couple of ways.

    One was communities that already existed that wanted Boards to host a forum for them. They used to be called community forums.

    Another was forums that the powers that be felt wouldn't have enough traffic or interest to warrant Boards.ie board initially, but let a user set up a Hosted board to see if the Boards community would take to it.

    Another again is groups of friends or regular boards users setting up private forums on the boards website.

    I'm sure there are more ways that they have come about but thats been my experience of it .

    Private forums set up by friends ? So like, you and I can have out own special forum :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,817 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    Private forums set up by friends ? So like, you and I can have out own special forum :confused:

    It depends whether the "powers that be" feel like it. :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    Thing is, when you have a mod who acts the dick (or another forum specific issue for that matter), the Smods, by policy, are more or less powerless (unless in extremis) to intervene.

    The reason being, that the admins (I hate using that term collectively, 'cos it's generally Vexy or DeV anyway) granted them squatters rights on the site.

    Future issues will probably be an issue for the CommMan, whoever he or she may be, but I reckon in the short term, the SMods should be allowed act as appropriate a la elsewhere, as todays instances have highlighted.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Ze snyper forum.
    'for general jackarsery'

    nice ring to it.


  • Posts: 5,589 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is the bit I don't get:

    They are hosted on the boards.ie server
    They are linked on the boards.ie menu
    They appear on the boards.ie homepage (including recent posts)
    Boards.ie are liable for the content there in the same way of regular forums

    But, they are not as accountable as regular forums? Mods have free reign?
    Can you please move all of my forums over to hosted and I can get rid of all of the posters I don't like for personal reasons, and then threaten them with sitebans when they complain?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,589 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Some are private forums and some are forums to facilitate commercial and non commercial groups/organisations outside boards.

    Take the boards drama group forum, we were founded via boards but we have grown beyond that, have our own site etc. We are not sponsored or owned by any of the owners of boards, but the owners kindly facilitate a forum that we manage ourselves. We operate in the interest primarily of the drama group and secondly of boards as do other hosted forums. Non hosted forums operate primarily in the interest of boards.

    Does that make sense? (Note its my interpretation as opposed to any official comment! :))


  • Posts: 5,589 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I get that, but there are some forums that are, in effect, mainstream forums and should be on the main site. CT for one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Ludo wrote: »
    Someone beat me to this topic I see.
    All seems a bit mad to be honest. To the casual user (me for example) there is no distinction between "normal" forums and "hosted" forums. They are all under the boards.ie brand. The same rules/standards should apply. The muppetry that was displayed earlier by that mod in the conspiracy forum reflects on boards.ie. If a new user who stumbled into the conspiracy forum and saw the behaviour of the mod, he could assume that is the standard of modding here and not bother with boards.ie.

    I agree. This handwashing by CMods of the behavior of Hosted Mods is unacceptable. Users who re reg to get around bans and continue to post on hosted boards, and sock puppetry earns you a site ban, even if you're only posting on a honest forum. I'm referring in particular to one regularly banned and re banned poster.

    It seems we have one rule for the users of hosted forums, and one set of rules for the mods of hosted forums.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    the SMods should be allowed act as appropriate a la elsewhere, as todays instances have highlighted.
    I agree 100%, particularly where they are open to public viewing.
    The average boards user isn't going to know about the fact that the general boards standards of moderating don't apply there and the fact that it's even a hosted forum is not really apparent as it looks the exact same as any other forum.
    The other solution would be to make such forums private and let errant mods ban away to their hearts content until there are no users left.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭starn


    Hi Guys, just a quick question Im hoping someone can answer for me. Ive been threathend by a siteban by a hosted mod. Now as it stands I havent posted anything in the hosted forums to warrent a sitewide ban. What Id like to now is a hosted mod. Who is not part of the real Boards.ie mod comunity can hit me with a sitewide ban

    If I am banned do I have any recourse ?
    Its been posted in another thread that the real Mods here on Boards.ie dont actually interfere with hosted forums.

    So if im banned on a hosted forum does that mean I have no way to appeal the ban, or to question it. I should I just take it on the chin and reregister ?


  • Posts: 5,589 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    starn wrote: »
    Hi Guys, just a quick question Im hoping someone can answer for me. Ive been threathend by a siteban by a hosted mod. Now as it stands I havent posted anything in the hosted forums to warrent a sitewide ban. What Id like to now is a hosted mod. Who is not part of the real Boards.ie mod comunity can hit me with a sitewide ban

    If I am banned do I have any recourse ?
    Its been posted in another thread that the real Mods here on Boards.ie dont actually interfere with hosted forums.

    So if im banned on a hosted forum does that mean I have no way to appeal the ban, or to question it. I should I just take it on the chin and reregister ?

    You won't get a siteban. MC was talking through his arse about that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    starn wrote: »
    Hi Guys, just a quick question Im hoping someone can answer for me. Ive been threathend by a siteban by a hosted mod. Now as it stands I havent posted anything in the hosted forums to warrent a sitewide ban. What Id like to now is a hosted mod. Who is not part of the real Boards.ie mod comunity can hit me with a sitewide ban

    If I am banned do I have any recourse ?
    Its been posted in another thread that the real Mods here on Boards.ie dont actually interfere with hosted forums.

    So if im banned on a hosted forum does that mean I have no way to appeal the ban, or to question it. I should I just take it on the chin and reregister ?

    no mod, hosted or otherwise, can siteban anyone, all they can do is either ban from the forums they moderate, or request a siteban - much like any user could request a siteban. The hmod who threatened you was talking out of his or her hole, and unless they were joking, should be stripped of their modship imo.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    tbh wrote: »
    no mod, hosted or otherwise, can siteban anyone, all they can do is either ban from the forums they moderate, or request a siteban - much like any user could request a siteban.
    Can they do a '9-pointer' (whatever that is) that I hear about sometimes in the spammer thread?
    I presume it means 9 infractions or something leading to an automatic site ban.
    Do Hmod infractions count for this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    SteveC wrote: »
    Can they do a '9-pointer' (whatever that is) that I hear about sometimes in the spammer thread?
    I presume it means 9 infractions or something leading to an automatic site ban.
    Do Hmod infractions count for this?

    you can do a 9-pointer all right, but it only lasts for ten days or something like that. and if you did it without reason, you'd be gone yourself. I don't know if you can infract a hmod, I don't think you can infract mods.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ


    Do hosted mods have full access to the mod fourms on Boards.ie?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭eVeNtInE


    This post has been deleted.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    tbh wrote: »
    you can do a 9-pointer all right, but it only lasts for ten days or something like that. and if you did it without reason, you'd be gone yourself. I don't know if you can infract a hmod, I don't think you can infract mods.
    I was thinking more in the context of what starn was asking..

    In theory then, it does seem possible for a hmod to go bonkers and actually give someone a site ban (provided the user has enough posts in their forum to infract).

    Hence why I asked if hmod infractions carry the same weight as a boards mod infraction.

    I know it would be cleared up and reversed pretty quick, I'm just wondering if the above mentioned hmod actually had the power to do it, however suicidal it would be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    starn wrote: »
    So if im banned on a hosted forum does that mean I have no way to appeal the ban, or to question it. I should I just take it on the chin and reregister ?
    Don't reregister :)
    SteveC wrote: »
    The other solution would be to make such forums private and let errant mods ban away to their hearts content until there are no users left.
    Still wouldn't be mad about that.

    Basically, I don't recall an issue like this appearing before and I completely forgot the whole "Hosted" thing for a while :)
    The hosted forums (originally called "Community" forums) are as pointed out above - they're essentially for specialist groups/interests which don't really "fit" into the wider site - that is, that the content may not be very general or even accessible and it may also serve as a means to communicate with that "community". If you go back and research the setting up of the CT forum, you'll probably find that the forum was set up with these kinds of ideas in mind. The idea was, "There's your playground, off you go", which is appropriate where you have interest groups such as Ireland Offline - the normal boards.ie can't nor shouldn't apply.

    But you could also apply these criteria to a number of main forums too, such as Poker.

    I think the "Hosted" thing has become somewhat lost with the rest of the site creating more and more increasingly specialist forums. The line has clearly become blurred in some cases, such as CT, and it's probably time to redefine that line and actually decide what forums go into "Hosted". Ideally only forums for organised groups or very specialist interest groups.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    seamus wrote: »
    The idea was, "There's your playground, off you go", which is appropriate where you have interest groups such as Ireland Offline - the normal boards.ie can't nor shouldn't apply.
    I accept your point but I still think that there should be something that differentiates these forums from boards in general. Such shenanigans could be quite confusing to the average user.
    I've been around here a while and thought I knew a thing or two about the site, I only learned about this policy/approach today and I was actually quite surprised by it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    EKRIUQ wrote: »
    Do hosted mods have full access to the mod fourms on Boards.ie?

    I think I read a few week's ago that they don't have access to either the mod forums or the Sex forum.



    Cheers for the reply seamus, I think this is an interesting issue here. I for one am baffled as to why the Conspiracy Forum can't be slotted in to the Rec category. I'd be interested in some input from Dev here or any of the other guys (I only know of Dev).

    Have Smods no power over anything that happens in the Hosted category ? Would it not make sense to have a Hosted Cat mod that liases with Smods or something ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Bob the Builder


    Have Smods no power over anything that happens in the Hosted category ?
    In Real Life, they're called Public Relations Officers.
    You think they have power, but they don't really.

    But I still wouldn't fúck with any of them. Scary bunch of overlords them supers are.
    /Grabs Coat


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    seamus wrote: »
    Don't reregister :)

    Still wouldn't be mad about that.

    Basically, I don't recall an issue like this appearing before and I completely forgot the whole "Hosted" thing for a while :)
    The hosted forums (originally called "Community" forums) are as pointed out above - they're essentially for specialist groups/interests which don't really "fit" into the wider site - that is, that the content may not be very general or even accessible and it may also serve as a means to communicate with that "community". If you go back and research the setting up of the CT forum, you'll probably find that the forum was set up with these kinds of ideas in mind. The idea was, "There's your playground, off you go", which is appropriate where you have interest groups such as Ireland Offline - the normal boards.ie can't nor shouldn't apply.

    But you could also apply these criteria to a number of main forums too, such as Poker.

    I think the "Hosted" thing has become somewhat lost with the rest of the site creating more and more increasingly specialist forums. The line has clearly become blurred in some cases, such as CT, and it's probably time to redefine that line and actually decide what forums go into "Hosted". Ideally only forums for organised groups or very specialist interest groups.
    The stance you referred me to, in my recent help desk thread, was that boards effectively washes its hands with H-forum issues. Yet, the mod of the hosted forum in question actually referred any discussion to feedback just today, i.e. back to the main site. Two sides are effectively saying it's not their problem, ergo it's no one's problem.

    I think there needs to be an explicit rule on where the two overlap and what the process is if one has an issue with a hosted forum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    There's something MC said in one of them witch hunt threads in Conspiracy Theorists. It was directed to "starn". He said he should be "grateful (I don't) push for a site ban".

    Can you be sitebanned just from posting in a Hosted forum ? :confused:


    Edit : Link - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58250375&postcount=15


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    I am under no illusion that I can Siteban people, however it would not be unreasonable of me to request that someone is reprimanded for excessive personal abuse as in Starns case.

    I really dont want this to descend into petty tit for tat attacks, but hey thats the way it seems to be going


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭eVeNtInE


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    I think it'd be a bit odd getting a siteban just from posting in the Hosting cat what with it only being a sub-section and not actually being a part of the boards.ie experience. It's extra odd in that Smods don't seem to take part in or having any powers over said category.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    It's extra odd in that Smods don't seem to take part in or having any powers over said category.
    I think it's more that we've never really had a significant problem in the Hosted category before. When i was modding the IrelandOffline (then and still located in Hosted), we had a few people who went off on one and they were moderated/penalised/whatever in line with the general rules of the site because I found it simpler to implement a standard set of rules (mainly with the idea of accountability, where possible, in mind). Generally muppetry tends to be clear cut - cases where there isn't a clear cut decision to be made tend to be a far smaller number. Unfortunately they also tend to be the ones that take up far more time - the clear cut cases are a nice "click click, ban, insert reason, inform of limit by PM if a local ban" type of thing, whereas the less clear cut things often tend to result in protests, discussion, what often seems like time-wasting even though it's part of the job.

    As the hosted category has historically fallen into Merrily we roll along mode, I'm guessing that most smods have paid less attention to it. Definitely me as there aren't all that many forums there I'd be interested in and of those I would be, they tend to get really irregular traffic.

    However, while in an ideal world mods would be aware of everything going on in their forums (which isn't always the case, certainly for a lot of the larger boards there are posts that are quite possibly never read by mods), all mods are also reliant on the userbase to let them know if there's a problem. Even in the case where a mod reads all of the posts in the order they were made, there may be a subtlety in posting that they don't notice for whatever reason, something that *is* noticed by another user or more particularly, by an aggrieved user. Clicking the Report button obviously sends a message to the mod of the forum but all smods and admins are easy to find and it's relatively easy to send a message to any or all of them where there's a serious problem or one involving a mod. Smods essentially act as extra eyes, ears, hands and boots for the admins. I've always said that mods are essentially janitors (it's still my tagline) and that mods are essentially minding their boards in trust or the userbase. We are. That's all.

    The above isn't meant to be an excuse or a reason why there may be issues on the hosted boards that we're not aware of by the way. Perhaps the admins will reconsider what goes into Hosted at some point, as well as why what goes in goes in. In advance of that happening, and even after it happens, users still have the report button, there's still the option of sending a PM to any of us, posting on Feedback, putting something into the Helpdesk. And the category isn't completely ignored, it's often specialist or particular enough that there isn't the attention given. That's unlikely to change much to be honest, the problems occur rarely enough that it would divert time away form the more regular muppetry on the main part of the site (which also tends to be far more prevalent). Don't regard this statement as my dismissing any problems that have occurred in Hosted at any time but sending an smod in there regularly to poke around is right up there with Homer Simpson's bear patrol for resource allocation and effectiveness.

    In the case of something really serious (or the usual spammy visitors) in the Hosted section brought to the attention of any of the smods, it'd be taken care of, even if that meant being passed up to the admins for action. We've all been at this long enough that, bearing in mind the independence of Hosted boards, where a clear-cut decision needed to be made we'd make it. It's important for any users to remember that the community-driven aspect is even more important on the hosted boards than it is on the main site, as hosted boards are all designed with an actual collective in mind as opposed to merely a common interest. Hosted boards and hence hosted mods are given a large amount of discretion for that reason. In the even more unusual possibility of a mod gone clearly nuts on their own board (it's happened, and it's happened on the main boards), that would be a decision to be made pretty much solely by the admins as it always has been.

    Being specific, what's going on in the conspiracy theories forum really should be possible to be sorted out by the CT community and hmods, there are enough posters and community members that have been there long enough to sort out what is simply a disagreement. If it genuinely isn't sortable, well, everyone's still here when that's determined but for the hosted community boards we should initially be there as facilitators rather than judges.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The stance you referred me to, in my recent help desk thread, was that boards effectively washes its hands with H-forum issues. Yet, the mod of the hosted forum in question actually referred any discussion to feedback just today, i.e. back to the main site. Two sides are effectively saying it's not their problem, ergo it's no one's problem.
    I'm saying that it is the Conspiracy Theories forum's problem. If the mods are unable/unwilling to listen to reasonable attempts to discuss an issue, then we can come in and act as facilitators.


This discussion has been closed.
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